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A Newbie, A Vision, No budget.


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#21 Joe P   Members   -  Reputation: 166

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:19 PM

People have a real Schtick about letting me know what i think, Lol As if i dont know what im trying to do.

Why not Udk, i plan to create a 3d project eventually yes? If i dont start learning now, ill never get a dream game made now will i? hm?


I confused as to why you came here for help... you clearly dont want any. We are telling you what the best thing is to do, you can take the advice or not. You started this saying things like "Im not a rocket scientist" and "absolutely no experience", but now you "know what youre trying to do". I think you should decide where you stand my man, you either want help or not. If you already know what to do, then you should just do it.

Why not UDK? That was answered already.. but lets say I told you to build me a 1 ft x 1ft bird house, would you go and buy an axe and a jackhammer to use as tools? Probably not. Would they work?? Yes maybe... somehow.. but does that seem like a reasonable idea? Well thats what using UDK to make a 2d RPG is like. Go get yourself some smaller, more ideal tools and be smart.
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#22 DarklyDreaming   Members   -  Reputation: 363

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:52 PM

Using UDK for remaking FF I-VII, Chrono Trigger, Braid or any similar kind of game would be like... using a nuke to clear away rubble. It achieves the intended effect... only that you need to use the most assbackwards, stupid, messy and ultimately mind-jarringly idiotic way of going about a relatively simple and easy task.

Look, simplest tool for the job wins out everyday - whether the job is learning a specific task or making something. In this case, making a 2D game of any complexity should be relatively straightforward - either go with something like Game Maker or stick with any number of assorted programming languages and whatever library flavor of your choice. Just stop the nonsense about UDK - unless your aiming for 3D it's mindbogglingly stupid to create such a (relatively) simple presentation that can be achieved in an uncomplicated way with an immensely complicated tool!

UDK, and by extension Unreal Engine 3, can be used for a wide variety of game styles and is well suited in most genres. 2D retro style is one of the few it's not suited for. Why do you think it would be 'creative' to create a retro style epic in such a way? The player won't care...
"I will personally burn everything I've made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."
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#23 Bastiaen   Members   -  Reputation: 254

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:13 AM


Either way, im The writer and Artist for the production of course, And i only used the listed games as an example to demonstrate the kind of of style of play i was looking for. I have alot of ideas for innovative gameplay, but that is way way to complex and into the thick of the whole thing to think about just yet.


Innovations within a given style of play are rare. It is not likely your project will succeed as an indie title because it contains a few innovative elements. Look at the recent indie successes, research what has worked. In general, the entire concept of a successful low-budget title is original, not just elements within a previously conquered genre.


I just want to respond quickly to two things. First, no, innovation is not required to have success on the indie market. There are enough examples out there of companies that don't need any "gimmick" for lack of a better word to be successful. The innovative, or art-like indie games simply draw a lot more attention from us game programmers, but there really is a big market out there for non-innovative games. There are many indies who make games that are not driven by innovative gameplay, but by strong storytelling or by targetting a specific niche market. These indies have been around for years. They might not be millionairs, but they are making a living. And yes, you can even make a living making 2D RPG games in RPG maker as long as you can reach the right group of people.



but imagine pushing UDK to do something like that. interesting.


"Crippling" would be a better term than "pushing" in this context.

I apologise if any of the above seems harsh. But if you choose the recruiting others route, have a flick through the Help Wanted section of this site to see how hard it is to engage other people with just ideas, concepts and stories.

If you decide to go down the route of programming yourself, you either need to accept the limitations of the available GameMaker-style applications or learn to program in a less restrictive language. If the latter, most of us need to start with something like Pong, work up through Tetris and Asteroids and go from there.


Although I completely agree that for him to use UDK is a bad, bad idea, I don't think that using UDK for such a game is a bad idea. Mainly because you get access to a very strong visual pipeline that could create a very fancy looking 2D/3D game, and that could draw some unique attention. But yeah, UDK is not a place for a beginner unless it is basically a simple FPS mod. Ok, now I need to give an example because more people are saying it is a bad idea:

http://mildlydisconcerting.com/drillboid/

Here, this game is created with unity, but the same principles.

#24 Joe P   Members   -  Reputation: 166

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:17 AM

He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.
Never, ever stop learning.
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#25 Esys   Members   -  Reputation: 156

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:18 AM

Ultimately, a decision needs to be made concerning what your goal is. At this point, you've stated two very seperate goals: make a game, and learn a programming platform. Both goals require very different approaches. If you want to make a game, you use the tools that will get your game out in the quickest, easiest, and most efficent manner. Think, "time is money". If you want to learn a language, or specific platform, you study documentation, tutorials, code up quick prototypes to test methods. If you combine these seperate goals, nothing will be accomplished; period. You'll spend so much time redoing work as you learn a "better" way of doing it that you'll tread over the same code time and time again.

So to recap: if you want to make a game, use the simplist tools that you can use at your present skill level. If you want to learn, then study, ask questions, do tutorials, and code prototypes.

#26 Roots   Members   -  Reputation: 657

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:43 AM

I skimmed over this thread and the OP sounds more like a creative/artistic/content creator type than a developer/programmer type. If you are intending to make a game on the scale of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (CT had about 40 people on its development team), you're going to need additional help anyway. You won't live long enough to complete a project like this entirely on your own. :blink:


So why not stop worrying about programming and the technical side, and instead really focus on your ability to create artwork and game content instead? In my years of experience in RPG development, its been much harder to find people to create content than it has to been to find people to write decent code. In fact with the current state of my project, I'm actually having to change my roll from programmer to artist because there's no one around to really create those assets that we need. My project is a free and open-source one though, so that may change the playing field a bit.


Anyway, if you are a good artist (or have the capacity to become a good artist) and enjoy doing that, then do that. Create a small number of tilesheets and sprites that could go into your game. Once you have that, then you can look around for help on the programming side and show that you've done a significant amount of work by yourself already, instantly granting you credibility. It sounds like you'd be more happy creating art instead of writing code anyway, so I think its a win both ways.
Hero of Allacrost --- http://www.allacrost.org
A free, open-source 2D RPG in development.

Latest release Oct. 10th, 2010.

#27 Bastiaen   Members   -  Reputation: 254

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:06 PM

He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.


I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!

#28 Joe P   Members   -  Reputation: 166

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:57 PM


He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.


I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!


I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.
Never, ever stop learning.
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#29 Bastiaen   Members   -  Reputation: 254

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:26 PM

I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.


Then we agree :)

#30 Joe P   Members   -  Reputation: 166

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:04 PM


I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.


Then we agree :)


Perfect :) Lol I feel like theres a lot more of us discussing things than the OP actually posting in here. Good chat though lol.
Never, ever stop learning.
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#31 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:20 PM

Using UDK for remaking FF I-VII, Chrono Trigger, Braid or any similar kind of game would be like... using a nuke to clear away rubble. It achieves the intended effect... only that you need to use the most assbackwards, stupid, messy and ultimately mind-jarringly idiotic way of going about a relatively simple and easy task.

Look, simplest tool for the job wins out everyday - whether the job is learning a specific task or making something. In this case, making a 2D game of any complexity should be relatively straightforward - either go with something like Game Maker or stick with any number of assorted programming languages and whatever library flavor of your choice. Just stop the nonsense about UDK - unless your aiming for 3D it's mindbogglingly stupid to create such a (relatively) simple presentation that can be achieved in an uncomplicated way with an immensely complicated tool!

UDK, and by extension Unreal Engine 3, can be used for a wide variety of game styles and is well suited in most genres. 2D retro style is one of the few it's not suited for. Why do you think it would be 'creative' to create a retro style epic in such a way? The player won't care...


Perfectly explained, lol. Thanks.

#32 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:40 PM

I just want to respond quickly to two things. First, no, innovation is not required to have success on the indie market. There are enough examples out there of companies that don't need any "gimmick" for lack of a better word to be successful. The innovative, or art-like indie games simply draw a lot more attention from us game programmers, but there really is a big market out there for non-innovative games. There are many indies who make games that are not driven by innovative gameplay, but by strong storytelling or by targetting a specific niche market. These indies have been around for years. They might not be millionairs, but they are making a living. And yes, you can even make a living making 2D RPG games in RPG maker as long as you can reach the right group of people.

Although I completely agree that for him to use UDK is a bad, bad idea, I don't think that using UDK for such a game is a bad idea. Mainly because you get access to a very strong visual pipeline that could create a very fancy looking 2D/3D game, and that could draw some unique attention. But yeah, UDK is not a place for a beginner unless it is basically a simple FPS mod. Ok, now I need to give an example because more people are saying it is a bad idea:

http://mildlydisconc....com/drillboid/

Here, this game is created with unity, but the same principles.
[/quote]


Alright ill take the innovation advice to mind and heart, normally for me, i find that innovation can come more from the way of thinking about the game as you play it, rather then some tacky way of actually physically playing the game. Such as, A storyline thats better than most Indies, or Character development, or charm that draws you in. Without those things, in the way that i play games at least, im less drawn in and fueled to actually play.

Games today seem to lack a really fantastical or good storyline that really connects with people, Few big titles i have seen have really done that for me... God of War was one of them. Halo kind of did it, Zelda Twilight princess was pretty okay. Dont get me wrong or anything, i dont mean to say their arent other s or anything, there's tons of course. But we have strayed so far from the charm and ideas of classic games that a good deal arent appealing to me any more at least.

Carbon copy FPS, I think The indygame community puts out more intriguing games, because they do things a little differently and try new things, while mainstream EA shovels shit into the hand of every gamer outside of select few titles.

__________________________________

I Love that little game you posted, the art style and animations and movements are totally fantastic looking.

__________________________________

And ill in the end learn game maker probably because that gets tossed around, i just dont want to take all the time learning and find out that this really wasnt what i wanted to do.
Im just looking for the right tools.

If Game maker can create a game identical to the game play, mechanics and so forth of games like Earthbound and Final fantasy( whether it be 1-7) Then its probably the system i want to use.

Also, something important i would like to know, Can Game maker pull off like a really neat "Puppet boss" Kind of thing, like the battles you would find in the Castlevania games or something alot like Gunstar super heroes.

I do like the 3d-2d idea, another thing to consider, i guess im in the process of finding out what i want and what i need to get it done, then ill hop onto the Learning curve, but im just interested in how much C++ or whatever that i actually need to learn to make something in the fashion of an rpg. (Im not going wow, as i said before, im not having all kinds of crazy numbers and damage dealing spells and that ridiculous stuff. im not a wow fan <_< Were branching off, IM BRANCHING OFF!!! lol anyways, I appreciate everyone help and comments about things.

#33 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:48 PM

I skimmed over this thread and the OP sounds more like a creative/artistic/content creator type than a developer/programmer type. If you are intending to make a game on the scale of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (CT had about 40 people on its development team), you're going to need additional help anyway. You won't live long enough to complete a project like this entirely on your own. :blink:


So why not stop worrying about programming and the technical side, and instead really focus on your ability to create artwork and game content instead? In my years of experience in RPG development, its been much harder to find people to create content than it has to been to find people to write decent code. In fact with the current state of my project, I'm actually having to change my roll from programmer to artist because there's no one around to really create those assets that we need. My project is a free and open-source one though, so that may change the playing field a bit.


Anyway, if you are a good artist (or have the capacity to become a good artist) and enjoy doing that, then do that. Create a small number of tilesheets and sprites that could go into your game. Once you have that, then you can look around for help on the programming side and show that you've done a significant amount of work by yourself already, instantly granting you credibility. It sounds like you'd be more happy creating art instead of writing code anyway, so I think its a win both ways.



Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.

#34 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:02 PM


He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.


I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!


I just love thinking bigger than normal, I mean, by useing UDK, you could make pixels out of cubes, and then color them acordingly to perfectly mimic your character in everyway with pixels, and then no smooth turns, but make him go left right and diagonal only right? So you have a character that actualy appears totally classic, and kind of is a fun way of thinking about pushing the system?

That or just go for a game of the same style as FF7 but everything, is seen drawing by the screen, wires drawn across buildings pass the view of the camera. and you have a really nice looking game with special effects. you can even get that funky 3d world view like in the old FF games or secret of mana, when you exit a town and your walking to someplace else?

#35 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8466

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:50 PM

you could make pixels out of cubes, and then [make] your character [from those] pixels, and then no smooth turns, but make him go left right and diagonal only right? So you have a character that actualy appears totally classic, and kind of is a fun way of thinking about pushing the system?

Sure. But when you push things, come up with new ways of doing things, you get to figure out the details yourself (since not a lot of others have done what you're trying to do).
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#36 thatguyfromthething   Members   -  Reputation: 80

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

I think it's terrible advice to work with RPGmaker unless it can deliver the end result you want.

You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.

If you want to make a fully 3D RPG then it's a lot of work and so is any RPG for that matter, but it's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills, and with 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.

No matter what your goals and budget are, just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine. Then look what will be needed.

Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game. Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter. The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.

But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere, the issue is not just lack of knowledge but you need to realize that very few of them are making games like what you are making (if they are actually making games at all). I happen to have made a game similar to what you want, though not released yet the software is done for some time now, and it's just completely different needs compared to what most people have experience doing (console or cell phone games).

So say you want to say make a Fallout 1 clone then you get a bunch of people suggesting you use an engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily not an old school RPG - graphics complexity hardly matters here, it's about how easy it is to work with data and create GUI that will make or break your project, not how easy it is to get art assets in (and honestly for any but simplest game this is just a nonissue - it it takes a month to import your assets (and no engine is that bad) then it's nothing compared to making a 5 year game, but a serious problem when making a one month game).

UDK has everything you need but they are not much better for GUI stuff than Unity, maybe worse. Plus the damned thing just isn't stable. If you had C++ support I'd say it's ok but that costs a lot of money

I ended up using my own engine, but it's probably not realistic to go from no programming experience to making your own engine to making your own game all in one go. Actually it's highly unrealistic to make a big RPG by yourself but it's not impossible to do so, it's just a lot of work.

So I'd try to find engine first (or maybe a couple engines you can try out) , get some C++ books, then get going. Yes you will make a lot of mistakes, especially as someone just learning to program, but you will start to see the issues of the problem at hand. If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it. This way at least you learn basics of how engines work, and even if you switch engines eventually the next time around you will be much smarter in selecting you tools because you know what to look for.

Eventually you will probably need some kind of team but a team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show. If you don't then there's no need for a team because they are a lot of work to communicate with and will just slow things down if you already have a task to do at hand. When you see how much work it is you will probably quit because it is years of work, but if you chip away at it long enough you will get done eventually, you just have to be patient and realize you won't be releasing anything new week, or next year, or maybe even 5 years from now.

#37 Roots   Members   -  Reputation: 657

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 07:47 PM

Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.


You are most certainly welcome to work with us. Yes we need artists (we've never not needed them for as long as this project has been in existence). What's also nice is that, because we're a free project, we allow all of our artists, composers, etc. to retain full copyright over their work. The only thing you agree to is allowing us to use and distribute your content under a GPL license. So if, for example, you make a castle tileset for us (something we really need at the moment), when you're ready to move on to your own project you'll already have a castle tileset made and ready to use. :)


I use GIMP for my pixel art currently. Its not the greatest tool for pixel art, but it is free and it is very powerful. There are some other editors out there specific to pixel art, you just have to look around. Our top artist uses Photoshop exclusively, but I only stick with free and open source software, and I run Linux so its out of the picture for me anyway. Anyway I'm getting off topic so I'll send you a PM shortly with more information.
Hero of Allacrost --- http://www.allacrost.org
A free, open-source 2D RPG in development.

Latest release Oct. 10th, 2010.

#38 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8466

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:36 PM

1. You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project.
2. this place is full of incredibly terrible advice.

1. That is incredibly terrible advice.
2. See #1.
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#39 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 12:43 AM

I think it's terrible advice to work with RPGmaker unless it can deliver the end result you want.

You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.

If you want to make a fully 3D RPG then it's a lot of work and so is any RPG for that matter, but it's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills, and with 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.

No matter what your goals and budget are, just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine. Then look what will be needed.

Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game. Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter. The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.

But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere, the issue is not just lack of knowledge but you need to realize that very few of them are making games like what you are making (if they are actually making games at all). I happen to have made a game similar to what you want, though not released yet the software is done for some time now, and it's just completely different needs compared to what most people have experience doing (console or cell phone games).

So say you want to say make a Fallout 1 clone then you get a bunch of people suggesting you use an engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily not an old school RPG - graphics complexity hardly matters here, it's about how easy it is to work with data and create GUI that will make or break your project, not how easy it is to get art assets in (and honestly for any but simplest game this is just a nonissue - it it takes a month to import your assets (and no engine is that bad) then it's nothing compared to making a 5 year game, but a serious problem when making a one month game).

UDK has everything you need but they are not much better for GUI stuff than Unity, maybe worse. Plus the damned thing just isn't stable. If you had C++ support I'd say it's ok but that costs a lot of money

I ended up using my own engine, but it's probably not realistic to go from no programming experience to making your own engine to making your own game all in one go. Actually it's highly unrealistic to make a big RPG by yourself but it's not impossible to do so, it's just a lot of work.

So I'd try to find engine first (or maybe a couple engines you can try out) , get some C++ books, then get going. Yes you will make a lot of mistakes, especially as someone just learning to program, but you will start to see the issues of the problem at hand. If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it. This way at least you learn basics of how engines work, and even if you switch engines eventually the next time around you will be much smarter in selecting you tools because you know what to look for.

Eventually you will probably need some kind of team but a team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show. If you don't then there's no need for a team because they are a lot of work to communicate with and will just slow things down if you already have a task to do at hand. When you see how much work it is you will probably quit because it is years of work, but if you chip away at it long enough you will get done eventually, you just have to be patient and realize you won't be releasing anything new week, or next year, or maybe even 5 years from now.


Thanks so much for your advice, I do want to make a good length game, i take it for me on my side it would be like making a big playable comic book, you have to draw the grass, the mountains and the houses, and make all the pieces fit together, And like a novel, where you write a book. Im a big fan of serious story telling and plot twists, and that kind of stuff, in a quirky game that may become a cult classic with people with the same taste as me may go crazy for it.

I hate RPGmaker, lol, i liked it for the first few hours, "Hey this shit is kinda neat...." And then a few hours pass "Why cant i make a cutscene or overscreen dialogue WTF!!!"

#40 ageshero   Members   -  Reputation: 92

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 12:52 AM


Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.


You are most certainly welcome to work with us. Yes we need artists (we've never not needed them for as long as this project has been in existence). What's also nice is that, because we're a free project, we allow all of our artists, composers, etc. to retain full copyright over their work. The only thing you agree to is allowing us to use and distribute your content under a GPL license. So if, for example, you make a castle tileset for us (something we really need at the moment), when you're ready to move on to your own project you'll already have a castle tileset made and ready to use. :)


I use GIMP for my pixel art currently. Its not the greatest tool for pixel art, but it is free and it is very powerful. There are some other editors out there specific to pixel art, you just have to look around. Our top artist uses Photoshop exclusively, but I only stick with free and open source software, and I run Linux so its out of the picture for me anyway. Anyway I'm getting off topic so I'll send you a PM shortly with more information.


Well, luckilly i have a totally legitimate copy of web premium cs4, so no legal trouble. I need the experience terribly, and i would certainly put my main Game on hold . and if i got some ideas and concept art of what your trying to make i probably could hop in if thats fine with you.

Im totally cool with making stuff that can be used by us as free use pictures etc. Im also a pretty musically inclined person, and i have a program called Sound Club, that allows midi composition, im still really new at it and im looking at it every so often and messing around on it.




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