1. That is incredibly terrible advice.
1. You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project.
2. this place is full of incredibly terrible advice.
2. See #1.
Lmao...
1
A Newbie, A Vision, No budget.
Started by ageshero, Jun 22 2011 06:32 AM
68 replies to this topic
Sponsor:
#42 Members - Reputation: 92
Posted 25 June 2011 - 01:54 AM
ima go on a random rant. lol.
For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.
But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.
They want a few head shots because that's all they care about...
So i say, If we want a good story in a game, what do we do? well the first thing i would do is ask yourself really tough questions. like Why the hell is this cool? what makes this cool, and why and how can this work.
Another example: Anime, 1st episode, no story, just a big fight scene and a few concepts that they are on another planet and there's some politics and bad guys. Nothing is connected, its unfinished. a story cant be about fighting aliens alone, there needs to be more substance than that.
Why are they fighting aliens, (we'll continue this plot) Because they threaten the existence of man! Okay, cool. Do they aliens look like stupid Unreal 3 style small headed large muscle idiot monsters? And why is that cool to have that in your game? are you joining the massive circle jerk of testosterone addicts in the world of Modern gaming? hell no you are not, get screwed. make an interesting alien.
What are your favorite stories? find that out and try to make your story better than they could. Starwars? Stick with the first 3 movies, and your better than George lucas, because the prequels stunk right?
The very fact that i am harshly crtitical of other things and analyze this, is why and how you create a good story, and find the faults and the good parts of a story.
______ Here is a short story i will write now.
"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."
Obviously this isnt an unheard of idea, but speculative fiction is incredibly interesting. I plan to use this in a revision of a particular story line of which non need be talked about. its only a base on how mankind refines itself and moves into a new era. In the past, pollution smogged the skies, and the only option was to maticulously gather every living things that we could find and store the dna and substance of those things in cloneing, and of course in that day, 2600 maybe, this was legitimate and possible. The smog now gone, and the story bassis is set. now it would be horribly boring depending on how you do it. to play a game.
Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?
Anyways, now were in a blade runner future, picture buzzing hover cars, gritty rusted massive building either being maintained by ant sized in perspective, human beings welding away with futuristic equipment to repair the buildings or build new ones, Lights like a whole wide city, scaling up the massive towering building. And all this is explained and is going on, and players are entitled, privileged in fact, to know the state of the world, the way of the universe in this storytelling. THEY NEED TO KNOW basically. I hate to get nazilike but you absolutely must be forced to see this. that the "scifi world" was in decay, and that its history is important to even concieving why this adventure is so great.
To see whats happening, how the world is working, and how the character fits in, i cant stand something that is to small scale, or simple. Because all stories have to break the line between good and evil. and bleed the colors into grey. They have to tell stories of characters who may have done bad things, or have had hard times, heroes and thieves, Poets and scoundrels.
Where are the stories that are this grand? who will make them? Who will write the engaging dialogue?
And the game producer of a higher up company says "Eh, we'll get bob to do it... he used to write for the high school paper right? yeah itll be fine, besides, its not like a story holds the game together or anything. lol..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA RIGHT GUYS!?"
SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.
To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.
(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.
But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.
They want a few head shots because that's all they care about...
So i say, If we want a good story in a game, what do we do? well the first thing i would do is ask yourself really tough questions. like Why the hell is this cool? what makes this cool, and why and how can this work.
Another example: Anime, 1st episode, no story, just a big fight scene and a few concepts that they are on another planet and there's some politics and bad guys. Nothing is connected, its unfinished. a story cant be about fighting aliens alone, there needs to be more substance than that.
Why are they fighting aliens, (we'll continue this plot) Because they threaten the existence of man! Okay, cool. Do they aliens look like stupid Unreal 3 style small headed large muscle idiot monsters? And why is that cool to have that in your game? are you joining the massive circle jerk of testosterone addicts in the world of Modern gaming? hell no you are not, get screwed. make an interesting alien.
What are your favorite stories? find that out and try to make your story better than they could. Starwars? Stick with the first 3 movies, and your better than George lucas, because the prequels stunk right?
The very fact that i am harshly crtitical of other things and analyze this, is why and how you create a good story, and find the faults and the good parts of a story.
______ Here is a short story i will write now.
"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."
Obviously this isnt an unheard of idea, but speculative fiction is incredibly interesting. I plan to use this in a revision of a particular story line of which non need be talked about. its only a base on how mankind refines itself and moves into a new era. In the past, pollution smogged the skies, and the only option was to maticulously gather every living things that we could find and store the dna and substance of those things in cloneing, and of course in that day, 2600 maybe, this was legitimate and possible. The smog now gone, and the story bassis is set. now it would be horribly boring depending on how you do it. to play a game.
Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?
Anyways, now were in a blade runner future, picture buzzing hover cars, gritty rusted massive building either being maintained by ant sized in perspective, human beings welding away with futuristic equipment to repair the buildings or build new ones, Lights like a whole wide city, scaling up the massive towering building. And all this is explained and is going on, and players are entitled, privileged in fact, to know the state of the world, the way of the universe in this storytelling. THEY NEED TO KNOW basically. I hate to get nazilike but you absolutely must be forced to see this. that the "scifi world" was in decay, and that its history is important to even concieving why this adventure is so great.
To see whats happening, how the world is working, and how the character fits in, i cant stand something that is to small scale, or simple. Because all stories have to break the line between good and evil. and bleed the colors into grey. They have to tell stories of characters who may have done bad things, or have had hard times, heroes and thieves, Poets and scoundrels.
Where are the stories that are this grand? who will make them? Who will write the engaging dialogue?
And the game producer of a higher up company says "Eh, we'll get bob to do it... he used to write for the high school paper right? yeah itll be fine, besides, its not like a story holds the game together or anything. lol..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA RIGHT GUYS!?"
SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.
To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.
(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
#44 Members - Reputation: 254
Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:14 AM
ima go on a random rant. lol.
For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.
But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.
...
"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."
Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?
...
SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.
To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.
(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
I think almost any beginner starts out like this. Some story and vision that sounds awesome in your head, and this is what gets them started in game development. Your imagination is a good place to get your motivation, but to create a game you will need to add a lot of discipline, and you will need to compromise. An epic storyline like this one is of the scale of mass effect, and that needed quite a lot of people to complete. It might be doable in 2D, but it will take a lot of time with people working on it fulltime.
You say yourself that it is not entirely original. One of the ways I like to work is by putting constraints on myself to work with. So let me try and put some constraints on you
. Try to figure out a story and gameplay that takes place in one location, for example a small mansion or maybe even in an interrogation room, or a hangar. Then try to work with only 5 characters in your entire story, and make it a story that can be completed within two hours.Now, let me explain the constraints. It is the equivalent of a short film created by movie students. A 3D or 2D house can be created in a matter of days, maybe weeks. Creating 5 characters is also a matter of days to weeks. So what you have is a small playground to test your ideas in. You can also do tons of cool things in a small area with a limited number of actions. Let me give you some quick example of small storylines:
- A story in an asylum where it is unclear to the player if what is happening is really happening, truth and lie interconnect a lot.
- A story in a hounted mansion, where in the end you turn out to be the ghost instead of the things you think are ghosts.
- A story where burglars invade your house, and you need to try and save your family and escape the house.
You see, all these stories are small, but it allows for interesting gameplay to emerge and it can be very fun for players to play such stories. This might be an easier road to take, but I think many gamedevelopers (me included) have the tendency to try and create something epic and big.
#45 Members - Reputation: 92
Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:32 AM
ima go on a random rant. lol.
For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.
But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.
...
"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."
Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?
...
SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.
To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.
(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
I think almost any beginner starts out like this. Some story and vision that sounds awesome in your head, and this is what gets them started in game development. Your imagination is a good place to get your motivation, but to create a game you will need to add a lot of discipline, and you will need to compromise. An epic storyline like this one is of the scale of mass effect, and that needed quite a lot of people to complete. It might be doable in 2D, but it will take a lot of time with people working on it fulltime.
You say yourself that it is not entirely original. One of the ways I like to work is by putting constraints on myself to work with. So let me try and put some constraints on you
Now, let me explain the constraints. It is the equivalent of a short film created by movie students. A 3D or 2D house can be created in a matter of days, maybe weeks. Creating 5 characters is also a matter of days to weeks. So what you have is a small playground to test your ideas in. You can also do tons of cool things in a small area with a limited number of actions. Let me give you some quick example of small storylines:
- A story in an asylum where it is unclear to the player if what is happening is really happening, truth and lie interconnect a lot.
- A story in a hounted mansion, where in the end you turn out to be the ghost instead of the things you think are ghosts.
- A story where burglars invade your house, and you need to try and save your family and escape the house.
You see, all these stories are small, but it allows for interesting gameplay to emerge and it can be very fun for players to play such stories. This might be an easier road to take, but I think many gamedevelopers (me included) have the tendency to try and create something epic and big.
I hear Walt disney said, that if he didnt get someone to find fault in his project, He figured it wasn't good enough of a scale in his opinion, lol I am a huge scale kind of guy, Most of my comic stories are planned to connect. i have a lot of plans to write novels and connecting story plots. intertwining things. And yes of course, a story can be short and simple. But there's something about adding that extra depth, its as if your staring into a 3d painting as apposed to something more 2d.
I have some simple plots, and other game ideas, Just the rpg that i have been discussing has been the big dreamy Game only, concept that i had next to a few others.
I like to wrestle all the spectrums, all i need is the knowledge on where to get it, and the motivation to do it, and im sure i could be pretty patient. lol.
#46 Members - Reputation: 2414
Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:02 AM
But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice.
Really?
- You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.
- It's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills
- With 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.
- Just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine.
- Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game.
- Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter.
- The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.
- If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere.
- An engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily.
- Plus the damned thing [UDK] just isn't stable.
- If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it.
- A team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean.
#47 Members - Reputation: 80
Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:56 PM
A console application is a computer program designed to be used via a text-only computer interface, such as a text terminal, the command line interface of some operating systems ...
Focus on the vision! Crossno budgetout and you should be fine! If you have the time, and if you can forget the fact that programming same old console apps gets boring, you should be fine with learning to code.
Console apps?
That's what all your games will look like while you're learning C/C++
#48 Members - Reputation: 100
Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:08 PM
A console application is a computer program designed to be used via a text-only computer interface, such as a text terminal, the command line interface of some operating systems ...
That's what all your games will look like while you're learning C/C++
[/quote]
pygame would be good for what he wants would it not i seen them all over the net like how he described written in python useing pygame . would not anyone agree with me on this statement?
google pygame rpg and you will get the pygame engine and some open source games if you look hard
and for the comment above mine srry but thats what every first time game looks like (my first game was tic tac to) because you need to learn simple programs like this to advance to bigger one (like the game he wants to make).
(no offence attended
p.s.it seems to me though he a writer and an "artist" and should realy look to see if he can get a programmer to help but i guess since good programmers ask for money and his no buget thing i say good luck.
That's what all your games will look like while you're learning C/C++
[/quote]
pygame would be good for what he wants would it not i seen them all over the net like how he described written in python useing pygame . would not anyone agree with me on this statement?
google pygame rpg and you will get the pygame engine and some open source games if you look hard
and for the comment above mine srry but thats what every first time game looks like (my first game was tic tac to) because you need to learn simple programs like this to advance to bigger one (like the game he wants to make).
(no offence attended
p.s.it seems to me though he a writer and an "artist" and should realy look to see if he can get a programmer to help but i guess since good programmers ask for money and his no buget thing i say good luck.
#49 Members - Reputation: 120
Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:21 PM
I don't know at what point something here will really stick out for the OP, or at what point all this will become INFORMATION OVERLOAD. What I do know is that there has been alot of good advice, and a bit of not so good advice, but this post seems more like a cry for reassurance, something that many, if not all of us, had before we started "making games" That is something everyone here CAN and SHOULD give you. With realism thrown in, of course, but here's the truth of the matter in game development:
1. EVERYONE here has a passion for games. Mostly, some stage and form of developing them. That being said, everything begins with...
1.a IDEAS IDEAS, PASSIONATE, EXCITED, IDEAS.
2. You have an idea and a desire to make a great game. The first step, which you probably have by this point, is start small to learn.
3. FIND YOUR NICHE. What about the games stimulates you? Do you have a desire to create beautiful things that will make a game (graphically) what it is? Does the art inspire you? Maybe you want to bring things to life. Programming is a safe bet if you do, because, for 2D games especially, there is art available, even just stock graphics, that can give you some gratification without hiring an artist.
4. Prepare for some form of burnout. This is important, because as you learn everything that goes into making a game, you will inevitably become overwhelmed with something at some point. This adheres to the Rome wasn't built in a day. Imagine if one man decided to build Rome himself... he might get as far as getting the tools and supplies, and even erecting a building before realizing... HOLY SH** I'M TRYING TO BUILD A CITY. You will learn about the process, and it can be very overstimulating, but with lots of experience, you will learn to pace yourself and prepare. Don't give up.
5. Yes, choose your tools wisely. I will not go into this here, there are many other posts on this, and it sounds like you have some idea anyway. I would say using Gamemaker or the like to prototype at least is a safe bet, because it provides quicker gratification than, say, C++ could afford you. That being said, I doff my cap to everyone who insists on learning things like C++ first and only, as I know a good many of those people who suceeded.
6. Yes, you can make a game by yourself. What kind and how big, I truly belive that is best left for you to decide by just doing it. You will quickly learn what your limitations are, much more quickly than for you to digest all the pages we here at Gamedev have written.
GOOD LUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!
1. EVERYONE here has a passion for games. Mostly, some stage and form of developing them. That being said, everything begins with...
1.a IDEAS IDEAS, PASSIONATE, EXCITED, IDEAS.
2. You have an idea and a desire to make a great game. The first step, which you probably have by this point, is start small to learn.
3. FIND YOUR NICHE. What about the games stimulates you? Do you have a desire to create beautiful things that will make a game (graphically) what it is? Does the art inspire you? Maybe you want to bring things to life. Programming is a safe bet if you do, because, for 2D games especially, there is art available, even just stock graphics, that can give you some gratification without hiring an artist.
4. Prepare for some form of burnout. This is important, because as you learn everything that goes into making a game, you will inevitably become overwhelmed with something at some point. This adheres to the Rome wasn't built in a day. Imagine if one man decided to build Rome himself... he might get as far as getting the tools and supplies, and even erecting a building before realizing... HOLY SH** I'M TRYING TO BUILD A CITY. You will learn about the process, and it can be very overstimulating, but with lots of experience, you will learn to pace yourself and prepare. Don't give up.
5. Yes, choose your tools wisely. I will not go into this here, there are many other posts on this, and it sounds like you have some idea anyway. I would say using Gamemaker or the like to prototype at least is a safe bet, because it provides quicker gratification than, say, C++ could afford you. That being said, I doff my cap to everyone who insists on learning things like C++ first and only, as I know a good many of those people who suceeded.
6. Yes, you can make a game by yourself. What kind and how big, I truly belive that is best left for you to decide by just doing it. You will quickly learn what your limitations are, much more quickly than for you to digest all the pages we here at Gamedev have written.
GOOD LUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!
#50 Members - Reputation: 92
Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:29 AM
I don't know at what point something here will really stick out for the OP, or at what point all this will become INFORMATION OVERLOAD. What I do know is that there has been alot of good advice, and a bit of not so good advice, but this post seems more like a cry for reassurance, something that many, if not all of us, had before we started "making games" That is something everyone here CAN and SHOULD give you. With realism thrown in, of course, but here's the truth of the matter in game development:
1. EVERYONE here has a passion for games. Mostly, some stage and form of developing them. That being said, everything begins with...
1.a IDEAS IDEAS, PASSIONATE, EXCITED, IDEAS.
2. You have an idea and a desire to make a great game. The first step, which you probably have by this point, is start small to learn.
3. FIND YOUR NICHE. What about the games stimulates you? Do you have a desire to create beautiful things that will make a game (graphically) what it is? Does the art inspire you? Maybe you want to bring things to life. Programming is a safe bet if you do, because, for 2D games especially, there is art available, even just stock graphics, that can give you some gratification without hiring an artist.
4. Prepare for some form of burnout. This is important, because as you learn everything that goes into making a game, you will inevitably become overwhelmed with something at some point. This adheres to the Rome wasn't built in a day. Imagine if one man decided to build Rome himself... he might get as far as getting the tools and supplies, and even erecting a building before realizing... HOLY SH** I'M TRYING TO BUILD A CITY. You will learn about the process, and it can be very overstimulating, but with lots of experience, you will learn to pace yourself and prepare. Don't give up.
5. Yes, choose your tools wisely. I will not go into this here, there are many other posts on this, and it sounds like you have some idea anyway. I would say using Gamemaker or the like to prototype at least is a safe bet, because it provides quicker gratification than, say, C++ could afford you. That being said, I doff my cap to everyone who insists on learning things like C++ first and only, as I know a good many of those people who suceeded.
6. Yes, you can make a game by yourself. What kind and how big, I truly belive that is best left for you to decide by just doing it. You will quickly learn what your limitations are, much more quickly than for you to digest all the pages we here at Gamedev have written.
GOOD LUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!
Interesting for sure. thanks for the input and inspiration, though i may end up not programming as much as i would like to be alittle more dependent on my own skills.
Can anyone list some popular 2d games and what engines they were made with, if not their own.
#51 Members - Reputation: 101
Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:59 AM
Hello everyone, my name is obviously Ageshero, And i have an extremely bad habbit of biting off way more than i could ever chew.
Go easy on me, dont use fancy words(cause you are smarter than to waste that kind of time on me, haha.) No crazy lingo that anyone outside your hobby could ever understand, and if you going to use it, tell me what it means.(Also, there's a whole load of elitist jerks that keep pointing out some how, no matter how i write, that my post is a wall of letters, Get the hell over it okay? Hahahaha.)
Okay, So here is the point, i want to make a 2D Action/Adventure/ RPG video game, Top down probably. I'm aware of engines like Gamemaker, but it seems a bit annoying... and i don't know if its what i want.
I have no Coding or programing experience, lets even assume that i don't even know what that is.
I'm sure there are plenty of problems to have to work through as i go on with the project that i want, It's probably going to be a pc only game, though getting it to work as a homebrew title for some random device would be absolutely wonderful.
I've pretty much got my head wrapped well around the aspects of Art, pixels, Animation, and im working on getting a fluid work flow and understanding music composition programs and sound effects for a classic feel, being a painter and general character artist etc, and also a musician, im ontop of that.
_
So what i need is some sources on what i should do to start learning how i would make a game. Or a really stretchy game engine that will let me do whatever i want ( Anything that is more flexible than RPGMAKERVX which is seems pretty limited and feels like i havent made my own game at all in any way. And might be the same if not easier than GAMEMAKER)
If i find that game maker is really what i want, what am i able and not able to do inside of this. I dont want "THIS GAME WAS MADE WITH GAMEMAKER" slapped on to some poorly designed and ugly loading screen. I figure theres probably a way to remove it.
So basically in the end im asking if there are any programs i should be aware that will help me make my game, but not take the development abilities away from me.
I want to be able to make cutscenes, and interesting title screens and things. If anyone has some help of any kind, please throw it at me.
Earthbound is the best example, a game pretty similar to the style and function of what i want.
(info like, how on earth did they make things Flash, move, animate, The crazy little background motion effects)
-
Another little bit of info, If gamemaker is my option, I want to make it look like game maker was never even there. I dont want framerate Defying smooth motions that destract entirely from the pixelly style of the game either.
-
Hope this wasnt to confusing, any help is appreciated ( im not a rocket scientist, speak english please.)
Yo no hablan la ciencia de cohetes.
Honestly, the RPGMaker series is more or less tailored to 2D Top Down RPG games. The other posts with you saying "why can't RPGMaker ver XX do this, or that" makes it obvious you have not done your research at all.
Search around the web, the latest RPG Makers use scripting (Ohmahgosh I need to learn scripting?! Other posters pretty much covered this.), if you have no intent to begin scripting, search the forums of various websites for user submitted scripts. This very from messaging systems to action battle systems. Commercial and successful projects have been made with RPG Maker such as the Aveyond series.
Alright, so I'm not here to constantly praise RPG Maker, it's good at what it does and certainly a great way to start with top-down RPGs as its newb friendly with its eventing system, help file, and pre-made editable database.
Most of the games out there that are fun to play were made by teams. Organization and a position for every member will allow for a more faster game and social/work experience for its members if they plan on entering the industry soon enough. There are also one man projects, people may do every single resource and need by themselves or commission others for their help. This either requires time or a budget respectively, but if you know how to sell your project right, you might interest others and (insert magic SFX here) you may have a team member or a free commissioner!
You have various options as well. Game Maker relies on GML for the making of games. It is possible to make them based only on the D&D (Drag and Drop) system, but it's a big big hassle. If you do not want to learn GML, or have no patience with scripting, I personally don't think you should commit yourself to it. There are a vast number of engines for different kinds of expectations: Stencyl, Game Salad, Multimedia Fusion, Construct, etc.
You have to go around and search, research, and discover your options. (Tom Sloper rule
) There are always options, and there's always and exception to that rule (even this one). Honestly, I recommend the first thing you absolutely do is go here to Tom Sloper's advice section. Just what the doctor ordered in my opinion. Another tip of personal advice from myself is don't start overly ambitious. Judge what you can do and set your limits from there. If you really want to start working on your visioned game, try something like this (For the sake of something I'm experienced with, I'll use RPG maker again):
Teh Bazics:
0- PLAY SOME RPGs. Get to know them.
1- Experiment, get to know the basic foundations. Keep on eventing random things, like doors opening, moving to new locations, and engaging with NPCs or battles.
2- Know what switches, variables, and common events (in the database) are and what they do. Make various little examples.
2- Create a full map that works with events. Little things like object interactions, shops, more NPCs, and simple quests that use switches and variables.
3- Make an experimental dungeon, monster events (or use random encounters), simple puzzles, treasures, and possibly a end-dungeon boss.
4- Now create separate maps, a map for an over world, a map for a town, a map for that towns indoors, a map for the towns dungeon. Link them all.
Dancing and Advancing:
5- See that button that links to the database, the great mammoth of a window with a lot of tabs? Press it.
6- Look at all the screens and familiarize yourself with what they do. Experiment.
7- The database consists various elements such as animations, eventing, RPG statistics, weapons, spells, items, common events, battles, etc. This will vary depending on your version of RPG Maker.
8.1- Known how RPGs work, behind the scenes. How to make balanced attacks, stats, items, skills, monsters, etc.
8.2- Customize your database, make your own animations, your own spells, items, weapons. Make your own characters and specialize their stats for their respective classes/jobs. Customize tilesets (also called chipsets) as needed for various areas. Make your own monsters. Make your own battles with in-battle events for bosses or other encounters. Make your own monster parties. LIMITLESS THINGS.
Expertize:
9- Click that script button, see what makes RPG Maker XP or VX tick. (RPG Maker uses a scripting language based off of Ruby.)
10- Make your own scripts, learn how to use other user made scripts. Learn how to use an customize different kinds of scripts overall.
11- Learn the creation of story lines. (Very important, it's an RPG dammit. You want a convincing role.)
12- Master mapping and mapping tricks to create great maps.
13- Import resources. Sprite your own sprites, sprite your own tilesets, make your own music, your own SFX, your own scripts, your own animation sheets, your own ETC. Otherwise, use resources other people have kindly made, give credit.
14- Sharpen use of the engine to create an atmosphere using said scripting for light effects, storyline, events, battles, music, and other things.
15- Use all above and other learned abilities
16- ???
17- Game and experience in several areas that can be put to use for other game engines.
Along the steps, make small, little games, that advance as you advance to test your knowledge so far. You do not have to release these small projects. Asking communities (Like RMVX, RpgRpgRevolution, and other communities) for feedback and other tips of advice is also helpful. ...Just be careful though, not all are nice people (trolls and flames, hello!), and make sure to use the search button FIRST.
The above steps can be mutated for other engines depending on the genre. Shmup? Play some, study them, make them. Shooter? Same. Platformer? Same. Puzzle? Same. Other RPGs in other engines? Same, of course with the addition that you will have to make your own database as opposed to RPG Makers pre-made one. So study RPG Makers script for its database if you want an idea.
If your just going to pick up any game engine, like Construct lets say, for two second without experimenting or reading tutorials, say "Meh, can't do crap" and toss it into the recycle bin, you're going to get nowhere.
More kudos to Tom Sloper for his help greatly. :3
#53 Members - Reputation: 176
Posted 27 June 2011 - 03:56 PM
You aren't cheating. You're using a tool purpose-built for creating the kind of game you want to make. Once you've made a few prototypes or even a full game with it, then start thinking about building something from scratch.Interesting, but im not really enthused with using RPGmaker, i feel like im cheating, Lol.
#54 Members - Reputation: 162
Posted 27 June 2011 - 08:22 PM
I think it's terrible advice to work with RPGmaker unless it can deliver the end result you want.
You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.
If you want to make a fully 3D RPG then it's a lot of work and so is any RPG for that matter, but it's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills, and with 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.
No matter what your goals and budget are, just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine. Then look what will be needed.
Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game. Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter. The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.
But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere, the issue is not just lack of knowledge but you need to realize that very few of them are making games like what you are making (if they are actually making games at all). I happen to have made a game similar to what you want, though not released yet the software is done for some time now, and it's just completely different needs compared to what most people have experience doing (console or cell phone games).
So say you want to say make a Fallout 1 clone then you get a bunch of people suggesting you use an engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily not an old school RPG - graphics complexity hardly matters here, it's about how easy it is to work with data and create GUI that will make or break your project, not how easy it is to get art assets in (and honestly for any but simplest game this is just a nonissue - it it takes a month to import your assets (and no engine is that bad) then it's nothing compared to making a 5 year game, but a serious problem when making a one month game).
UDK has everything you need but they are not much better for GUI stuff than Unity, maybe worse. Plus the damned thing just isn't stable. If you had C++ support I'd say it's ok but that costs a lot of money
I ended up using my own engine, but it's probably not realistic to go from no programming experience to making your own engine to making your own game all in one go. Actually it's highly unrealistic to make a big RPG by yourself but it's not impossible to do so, it's just a lot of work.
So I'd try to find engine first (or maybe a couple engines you can try out) , get some C++ books, then get going. Yes you will make a lot of mistakes, especially as someone just learning to program, but you will start to see the issues of the problem at hand. If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it. This way at least you learn basics of how engines work, and even if you switch engines eventually the next time around you will be much smarter in selecting you tools because you know what to look for.
Eventually you will probably need some kind of team but a team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show. If you don't then there's no need for a team because they are a lot of work to communicate with and will just slow things down if you already have a task to do at hand. When you see how much work it is you will probably quit because it is years of work, but if you chip away at it long enough you will get done eventually, you just have to be patient and realize you won't be releasing anything new week, or next year, or maybe even 5 years from now.
Ageshero, whatever you wind up doing, however you wind up doing it, PLEASE do not listen to a single thing that is said here. This might be the worst, mostly untrue bunch of sentences I have read in a long time.
Never, ever stop learning.
- Me
- Me
#55 Members - Reputation: 239
Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:52 PM
I tried jumping right into 3d game engines to make games...for a while. Then I realized that I had no clue what was going on in the background, at a lower level. So I started experimenting with OpenGL, and while I'm rather limited (the best I'm doing right now is a textured cube (albiet with VBOs, texture objects, and vertex normals), I understand what is going on.Hello everyone, my name is obviously Ageshero, And i have an extremely bad habbit of biting off way more than i could ever chew.
Go easy on me, dont use fancy words(cause you are smarter than to waste that kind of time on me, haha.) No crazy lingo that anyone outside your hobby could ever understand, and if you going to use it, tell me what it means.(Also, there's a whole load of elitist jerks that keep pointing out some how, no matter how i write, that my post is a wall of letters, Get the hell over it okay? Hahahaha.)
Okay, So here is the point, i want to make a 2D Action/Adventure/ RPG video game, Top down probably. I'm aware of engines like Gamemaker, but it seems a bit annoying... and i don't know if its what i want.
I have no Coding or programing experience, lets even assume that i don't even know what that is.
I'm sure there are plenty of problems to have to work through as i go on with the project that i want, It's probably going to be a pc only game, though getting it to work as a homebrew title for some random device would be absolutely wonderful.
I've pretty much got my head wrapped well around the aspects of Art, pixels, Animation, and im working on getting a fluid work flow and understanding music composition programs and sound effects for a classic feel, being a painter and general character artist etc, and also a musician, im ontop of that.
_
So what i need is some sources on what i should do to start learning how i would make a game. Or a really stretchy game engine that will let me do whatever i want ( Anything that is more flexible than RPGMAKERVX which is seems pretty limited and feels like i havent made my own game at all in any way. And might be the same if not easier than GAMEMAKER)
If i find that game maker is really what i want, what am i able and not able to do inside of this. I dont want "THIS GAME WAS MADE WITH GAMEMAKER" slapped on to some poorly designed and ugly loading screen. I figure theres probably a way to remove it.
So basically in the end im asking if there are any programs i should be aware that will help me make my game, but not take the development abilities away from me.
I want to be able to make cutscenes, and interesting title screens and things. If anyone has some help of any kind, please throw it at me.
Earthbound is the best example, a game pretty similar to the style and function of what i want.
(info like, how on earth did they make things Flash, move, animate, The crazy little background motion effects)
-
Another little bit of info, If gamemaker is my option, I want to make it look like game maker was never even there. I dont want framerate Defying smooth motions that destract entirely from the pixelly style of the game either.
-
Hope this wasnt to confusing, any help is appreciated ( im not a rocket scientist, speak english please.)
It's a road less traveled, but you learn a lot more. I would recommend that you write these game ideas down in a binder and then stick it in on the shelf. Work with the basics for a while (the root APIs- OpenGL and DirectX). Then once you are competent in the basics, pull the binder off the shelf. One more thing- almost all successful games of any size (even 2D) are built by a team. Not individuals. Start small.
#56 Members - Reputation: 185
Posted 28 June 2011 - 05:25 AM
I have tried to stay away from this topic as much as possible. I then thought, maybe he/she will turn around and give some of his 'engines' he wants to use another try.
I want to point out a few things that irk me about your posts. In no way do I want to say your a failure, nor do I say that your wrong. I am merely giving you advice based on what your stating here. Its clear that you have no idolistic principles when it comes to programming. That is fine. But what you want to do is wrong 100% of the way. Your are about to go about it the wrong way, and while you may succeed in some wierd fashion in your head, everyone around you will notice what you haven't done.
Let me break it down for you clearly at first.
1. You stated that RPG Maker cannot due cutscenes. As someone who has used RPGMaker since 2000, You are 100% incorrect about this. A cutscene is anything where you loose control of your character and it is event driven in the area of telling a story or showing a significant event which may or not impact the gameplay. Credits are a cutscene, an intro is a cutscene, two characters getting it on is a cutscene. The victory of a Pokemon battle where the pokemon then evolves... is a cut scene. All of this is available to you using variables and triggered events in RPG Maker. I need you to do some research before you bash something that you don't clearly know.
2. RPG Maker is a very versatile tool. You get what you put into it. I am not going to burn you to hard because you said you don't know programming. I am going to assume also that you don't know what Google is and you never heard of a Forum until you posted here. There are at least 5-6 forums dedicated to the RGGS script and scripts that players and game creators have made with RPG Maker to add functionality to the engine that was not there before. You can customize RPG Maker to pretty much suit anything you want. Its a 2D engine only, though its so versatile someone has created a psuedo 3D engine. I would reccomend you learn RUBY if you want to take another approach to this concept. When you have learned RUBY please come back and tell me that RPG Maker is not a versatile tool.
2A. I want to point out also that there was 2 games that were released as a commercial product made and created from RPG Maker. Do a search on Wikipedia. You can find the games there.
3. GameMaker is a powerful tool aswell. With you wanting to remove the "powered by" splash is almost a slap to every persons face. You didn't make the engine. Nor did you spend the countless hours developing the studio in which you could create a learning staging area and create a sophisticated set of tools to ensure that the user doesn't create a harmful product. Instead you want to take there stuff and claim credit for it. Why? Because it makes you something your not? I know alot of video game developers that would rather show off the wonderful logos of what they used. Its almost a badge of honor to some, You created this with LUA? You created this in GAME MAKER? Wow, I am impressed. I would rethink that approach.
4. The UDK comment you had was not the most intellegant albeit probably your only one that did stand a small ground. Heres what I mean. You stated it would be a unique concept. Your right, it would be a very unique concept. Every game designer out there would be like, so your telling me you used a Car to hammer in that nail? Why. The point of an engine isn't to find the best one cause it has all this fancy pantsy crap in it that sounds like its good. Nor is it because you get a toolset that makes things pretty. The idea of an engine is to make your life easier and to make game play easier to create for you the developer. Making a FPS engine into a TOP DOWN Action Adventure RPG is like saying, the reason you bought an Oven was to heat up the water to take a bath with. Its completly assinine. Use something that is made for what your looking for.
-----------Now comes the healing process.--------------------
We have all been there. We have been in your shoes saying, hey where do we start? Where do I go? You came to this board asking advice. I have seen some good, some rough and some Excellent advice given to you. So far your posts remind me of the thread where someone came here saying this board is nothing but people saying make your own engine. HazePhaze I believe his name was. Your not listening. Instead your posts are here to show how much you don't understand and you want to tell us, people who are trying to help, how to make games based on what you apply as game logic. I replied to give you the benifit of the doubt that your new, probably a little younger than some people here and thats ok. Age really has no factor, but realize that starting younger means you have to listen to people who have been dealing with this situation for awhile. We all started at the bottom, making pong, making a calculator, making hangman, making stick figures, making a circle touch a triangle and the program crash immediatly. We have all been to those stages of learning. If you want to learn, then learn. If you want to come here and post about how you want to learn but rough it out about how it is... then please post no more.
We are here to help. If you take my advice, I will gladly show you the way to use RPG Maker, and that company EnterBrain has created a special studio just for this called AGM. Its a little rough to understand, but its something you might like. Once again, talk to us, don't bash us. Be yourself.
-Mayple
I want to point out a few things that irk me about your posts. In no way do I want to say your a failure, nor do I say that your wrong. I am merely giving you advice based on what your stating here. Its clear that you have no idolistic principles when it comes to programming. That is fine. But what you want to do is wrong 100% of the way. Your are about to go about it the wrong way, and while you may succeed in some wierd fashion in your head, everyone around you will notice what you haven't done.
Let me break it down for you clearly at first.
1. You stated that RPG Maker cannot due cutscenes. As someone who has used RPGMaker since 2000, You are 100% incorrect about this. A cutscene is anything where you loose control of your character and it is event driven in the area of telling a story or showing a significant event which may or not impact the gameplay. Credits are a cutscene, an intro is a cutscene, two characters getting it on is a cutscene. The victory of a Pokemon battle where the pokemon then evolves... is a cut scene. All of this is available to you using variables and triggered events in RPG Maker. I need you to do some research before you bash something that you don't clearly know.
2. RPG Maker is a very versatile tool. You get what you put into it. I am not going to burn you to hard because you said you don't know programming. I am going to assume also that you don't know what Google is and you never heard of a Forum until you posted here. There are at least 5-6 forums dedicated to the RGGS script and scripts that players and game creators have made with RPG Maker to add functionality to the engine that was not there before. You can customize RPG Maker to pretty much suit anything you want. Its a 2D engine only, though its so versatile someone has created a psuedo 3D engine. I would reccomend you learn RUBY if you want to take another approach to this concept. When you have learned RUBY please come back and tell me that RPG Maker is not a versatile tool.
2A. I want to point out also that there was 2 games that were released as a commercial product made and created from RPG Maker. Do a search on Wikipedia. You can find the games there.
3. GameMaker is a powerful tool aswell. With you wanting to remove the "powered by" splash is almost a slap to every persons face. You didn't make the engine. Nor did you spend the countless hours developing the studio in which you could create a learning staging area and create a sophisticated set of tools to ensure that the user doesn't create a harmful product. Instead you want to take there stuff and claim credit for it. Why? Because it makes you something your not? I know alot of video game developers that would rather show off the wonderful logos of what they used. Its almost a badge of honor to some, You created this with LUA? You created this in GAME MAKER? Wow, I am impressed. I would rethink that approach.
4. The UDK comment you had was not the most intellegant albeit probably your only one that did stand a small ground. Heres what I mean. You stated it would be a unique concept. Your right, it would be a very unique concept. Every game designer out there would be like, so your telling me you used a Car to hammer in that nail? Why. The point of an engine isn't to find the best one cause it has all this fancy pantsy crap in it that sounds like its good. Nor is it because you get a toolset that makes things pretty. The idea of an engine is to make your life easier and to make game play easier to create for you the developer. Making a FPS engine into a TOP DOWN Action Adventure RPG is like saying, the reason you bought an Oven was to heat up the water to take a bath with. Its completly assinine. Use something that is made for what your looking for.
-----------Now comes the healing process.--------------------
We have all been there. We have been in your shoes saying, hey where do we start? Where do I go? You came to this board asking advice. I have seen some good, some rough and some Excellent advice given to you. So far your posts remind me of the thread where someone came here saying this board is nothing but people saying make your own engine. HazePhaze I believe his name was. Your not listening. Instead your posts are here to show how much you don't understand and you want to tell us, people who are trying to help, how to make games based on what you apply as game logic. I replied to give you the benifit of the doubt that your new, probably a little younger than some people here and thats ok. Age really has no factor, but realize that starting younger means you have to listen to people who have been dealing with this situation for awhile. We all started at the bottom, making pong, making a calculator, making hangman, making stick figures, making a circle touch a triangle and the program crash immediatly. We have all been to those stages of learning. If you want to learn, then learn. If you want to come here and post about how you want to learn but rough it out about how it is... then please post no more.
We are here to help. If you take my advice, I will gladly show you the way to use RPG Maker, and that company EnterBrain has created a special studio just for this called AGM. Its a little rough to understand, but its something you might like. Once again, talk to us, don't bash us. Be yourself.
-Mayple
I usually just give my 2 cents, but since most of the people I meet are stubborn I give a 1$ so my advice isn't lost via exchange rate.
#57 Members - Reputation: 102
Posted 28 June 2011 - 10:05 AM
The reason you shouldn't use UDK is that any experience you gain using an appropriate design tool will help you when you switch to UDK for another title.
For example, you want to slice bread now and chop down a tree later. Using a chainsaw on the bread will not give you a significant advantage when cutting the tree. By using a grossly overpowered tool on the bread, you give yourself additional frustration.
Now change bread to 2D game, tree to 3D game, and chainsaw to UDK.
I hope that was helpful.
My method? I'm going to college as a game design major. Good luck.
For example, you want to slice bread now and chop down a tree later. Using a chainsaw on the bread will not give you a significant advantage when cutting the tree. By using a grossly overpowered tool on the bread, you give yourself additional frustration.
Now change bread to 2D game, tree to 3D game, and chainsaw to UDK.
I hope that was helpful.
My method? I'm going to college as a game design major. Good luck.
#60 Members - Reputation: 125
Posted 28 June 2011 - 11:54 PM
I first got my programming fix with rpg maker. I see no problem of using it to make a game. The reason is that it teaches the user the amount of work needed to make a complete game. If somebody can constantly use the rpg maker event language to make interesting things happen, that is almost like computer programmming there.
I remember going from rpg maker 95 to rm2k. Rm2k had variables that you could set to several different things and compare to several different things. That is programming right there. It took me a while to fully comprehend it all. I was just entering highschool at the time.
It did not take much longer for me to really want to program after using the rm2k event scripts. I got into using qbasic and made some silly tile based maze game. Awesomest game I ever made with not knowing everything I was doing
The point I am trying to say is, use the tool to learn. It helps when you have that knowledge of the tool to create a tool of your own.
I remember going from rpg maker 95 to rm2k. Rm2k had variables that you could set to several different things and compare to several different things. That is programming right there. It took me a while to fully comprehend it all. I was just entering highschool at the time
.It did not take much longer for me to really want to program after using the rm2k event scripts. I got into using qbasic and made some silly tile based maze game. Awesomest game I ever made with not knowing everything I was doing
The point I am trying to say is, use the tool to learn. It helps when you have that knowledge of the tool to create a tool of your own.
