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My friend is starting to like Java (help!)


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#21 The_Neverending_Loop   Members   -  Reputation: 600

Posted 19 July 2011 - 10:37 PM


Iam sorry but I just have to stand up for Java here, I <3 Java its my favorite language, Iam a .NET C# developer at work, but I much prefer to work on my own Java based projects, I dont know why but I just find coding in Java more enjoyable.


Why do you like Java better than C#? I'm not disputing your choice, but I'd be interested to know the reasons behind it.



Ill be the first one to admit that C# has things which Java doesn't come with naturally w/o some third party library and even then C# can do things that I just dont think would be possible in Java (in the way you program, not in producing the said programs they can both build essentially the same thing), and some of these things I find in C # very usefull that I would of really liked to see natively in Java. Also C# works really well if the technologies its intended to work with, such as the whole .NET platform, and in my opinion better (in general) in the business world then Java EE.

Now with that said... Honestly in my humble opinion, C# and all the technologies it comes with tries to hold my hand WAYYYY too much. This might be great for people who don't feel to comfortable behind the wheel, I've heard horror stories of college students taking the Java EE route and having nightmares trying to set up a Java Servlet/JSP Web application, while for everyone using the .NET platform has the simplest time.

and with all the hand holding and some of the higher level programing stuff, I feel like people can miss out on understanding some very important fundamental concepts in the rudimentary architecture of their applications, and I know what Iam doing so I would like to essentially be able to shoot my self in the foot if I feel like it, I dont want C Sharp putting the blanks in the gun for me because they are worried I dont know how to operate it. That and I just prefer how Java was designed overall, and its mobility.

These last statements are by no means me saying C sharp is a bad language, in fact its great! But honestly Id prefer to do my own hobbyist projects with Java.

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#22 The_Neverending_Loop   Members   -  Reputation: 600

Posted 19 July 2011 - 10:45 PM

Another comment, honestly all this "Language X > Language Y" is stupid, its all a matter of opinion and preference, whatever gets the job done is a GREAT language, and all these languages can essentially get the same things done, so its all about what you need. Same way I prefer to work in java, in the same instance I might not use it to get Task X done, because C++ Might be better, and visa versa sometimes java or C sharp is better for the job then C++,

I remember a LONG time ago I was creating a game in C++ and I had to build some simple tools for the game, guess what language i DIDNT use in that situation, C++, even tho thats what I was building the game in, I knew I could get the same job done much quicker in Java, so thats what I build all my tools with, while the game was actually in C++.

and with all that said Iam going to leave with on possibly controversial statement....
Objective C >> All

#23 FableFox   Members   -  Reputation: 489

Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:52 AM

Pure Basic for the world! http://www.purebasic.com.

Seriously though, Java is important in certain circle, eg, Oracle database interface and what not, so there is might be a reason why your friend is into it.
Fable Fox is Stronger <--- Fable Fox is Stronger Project

#24 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 20 July 2011 - 06:42 AM

Another comment, honestly all this "Language X > Language Y" is stupid, its all a matter of opinion and preference, whatever gets the job done is a GREAT language, and all these languages can essentially get the same things done, so its all about what you need. Same way I prefer to work in java, in the same instance I might not use it to get Task X done, because C++ Might be better, and visa versa sometimes java or C sharp is better for the job then C++,

I remember a LONG time ago I was creating a game in C++ and I had to build some simple tools for the game, guess what language i DIDNT use in that situation, C++, even tho thats what I was building the game in, I knew I could get the same job done much quicker in Java, so thats what I build all my tools with, while the game was actually in C++.

and with all that said Iam going to leave with on possibly controversial statement....
Objective C >> All


I think there's a strong argument that C# > Java because they are both made to fit the same hole, but C# was pretty much designed to be better than Java.

#25 SuperVGA   Members   -  Reputation: 1118

Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:51 AM

My programmer is starting to like java more then c++! What should I do?

Sit down, take a deep breath and then consider all the signs as being coincidential.
I thought one of my friends/programmers was into Java too once, and I thought it might be because everyone experiments with Java in university, right? No big deal, and then we went to a C++ party together, lots of small competitions and design puzzles there. That made him quit the Java thing, and I've never seen him with one of his Java friends since.

Alright just let your friend develop in what he feels most comfortable with. You do respect your differences, right? On the other hand, if your friend is an employee, either make him use C++, establish a small Java project for him or fire him if he doesn't get it.

#26 Krohm   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3015

Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:15 AM

My programmer is starting to like java more then c++! What should I do?

LOL, you cannot do much with it. You're doomed! Or perhaps saved, who knows. +1 for you, this made me smile.

#27 hannesnisula   Members   -  Reputation: 989

Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:39 AM

My programmer is starting to like java more then c++! What should I do?


You get a new programmer, a REAL programmer. :D

#28 The_Neverending_Loop   Members   -  Reputation: 600

Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:49 AM


Another comment, honestly all this "Language X > Language Y" is stupid, its all a matter of opinion and preference, whatever gets the job done is a GREAT language, and all these languages can essentially get the same things done, so its all about what you need. Same way I prefer to work in java, in the same instance I might not use it to get Task X done, because C++ Might be better, and visa versa sometimes java or C sharp is better for the job then C++,

I remember a LONG time ago I was creating a game in C++ and I had to build some simple tools for the game, guess what language i DIDNT use in that situation, C++, even tho thats what I was building the game in, I knew I could get the same job done much quicker in Java, so thats what I build all my tools with, while the game was actually in C++.

and with all that said Iam going to leave with on possibly controversial statement....
Objective C >> All


I think there's a strong argument that C# > Java because they are both made to fit the same hole, but C# was pretty much designed to be better than Java.




Again It is honestly in my opinion a matter of preference, but one things that Java definetly does have over C# is that its alot cheaper to develop for.



#29 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:30 AM

Again It is honestly in my opinion a matter of preference, but one things that Java definetly does have over C# is that its alot cheaper to develop for.


You can develop both for free o.O

#30 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1718

Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:51 AM


Again It is honestly in my opinion a matter of preference, but one things that Java definetly does have over C# is that its alot cheaper to develop for.


You can develop both for free o.O


Starting to sound like he knows less and less about C#. Next he'll say that C# code can only run on Windows...

Visual Studio Express

#31 The_Neverending_Loop   Members   -  Reputation: 600

Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:28 AM



Again It is honestly in my opinion a matter of preference, but one things that Java definetly does have over C# is that its alot cheaper to develop for.


You can develop both for free o.O


Starting to sound like he knows less and less about C#. Next he'll say that C# code can only run on Windows...

Visual Studio Express


I can essentially use every aspect of java without spending a dime, the same cant be said about C#.

if your "married" to C#, you'r married to its family, same for java, and I prefer the java family.

[EDIT] This is starting to start like a fan boy topic, I never said C# is a bad language, in fact I think its great, I simply stated I preferred Java and was asked for my reasons. It'd be pointless to have a conversation stating why X is great then Y other then personnel preference. With that said I'ama leave from any further discussions on this topic.

#32 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1718

Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:35 AM

I can essentially use every aspect of java without spending a dime, the same cant be said about C#.

if your "married" to C#, you'r married to its family, same for java, and I prefer the java family.

[EDIT] This is starting to start like a fan boy topic, I never said C# is a bad language, in fact I think its great, I simply stated I preferred Java and was asked for my reasons. It'd be pointless to have a conversation stating why X is great then Y other then personnel preference. With that said I'ama leave from any further discussions on this topic.


You can use every aspect of C# without paying a dime. The C# that you're using in the free version of Visual Studio is exactly the same as the $10,000 ultimate edition of Visual Studio. You're paying more for better tools. The same principle exists in Java. You have free IDEs and commercial IDEs which often have more features. You're paying for the tools, not the language.

#33 Nypyren   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3939

Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:56 AM

I think it's at least important to make sure everyone knows the relevant facts. We can leave out our opinions and still have a good, informative conversation.

Microsoft.Net is available for free and includes MSBuild and the C# compiler. This means you can also distribute programs which compile themselves to normal "non-developers" and they will be able to compile it. You can do the same in Java with the JDK, but I'm not sure if the JRE includes a compiler or not.

Visual Studio has the free "Express" editions. They are missing some IDE (not language or library) features that the Standard/Pro/Team editions have, but you can find free, stand-alone tools to do profiling, unit testing, and source control (you just won't be able to use them as plugins within the IDE itself). There are several free IDEs for Java as well, such as Eclipse.

For cross-platform desktop development, .Net has a free implementation called 'Mono' which runs on other OSes such as Linux and OSX. For the most part it works, but there are more obscure bugs than with .Net on Windows. Java has a more consistent(?) JRE and JDK for each platform.

For mobile phone development, you can develop WP7 apps for free on .Net and test them using a device emulator, but you need to pay to be able to actually deploy your app to your physical phone (as far as I know, but there are probably hacks to bypass this), or submit them to the marketplace. I don't know about Java and Android devices, but I'm guessing there's no costs involved to deploy your app to your device. I'm not sure about how submitting to various app marketplaces work with Android.



As far as being "married" to C#, C# will interoperate gracefully with many other languages. It works with with COM, other .Net languages, and certain native libraries using P/Invoke. Under Mono, some trickery can be used to P/Invoke functions in .so files. I'm not experienced enough with Java to know what kinds of interop scenarios it offers in comparison.




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