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What does GDNet think about my game engine?


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118 replies to this topic

#101 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7398

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:01 PM


The reason I brought up what I do at work is to point out that I've got experiance in engine development...


Really? Do you have anything you have made engine-development wise to show us? Because IIRC you were laid off from your previous job, and you don't even have 2 months in CodeMasters(yeah, I follow the gossip...). What exact experience do *you* have in engine development? You have anything similar to the OP's project you can show for yourself?


Yep, I was let go from my previous job, but then again so were 1/3 of the coders there. In fact I PREDICTED I would be let go due to the various factors (yay office politics!) including a slight run in with a producer on a project shortly before the redundancies happened.

The gossip is wrong however, I've been at Codemasters for a little over a year now having closed out the latest Flashpoint as part of the rendering team before ending up in the Central Tech team for our new engine.

And nope, I don't... but then again I never claimed I did; my experiance comes from working in the industry on a few projects/engines (I believe this is my 11th project...). Could I do it in my own time? Most likely however when I do my own stuff I prefer to work on tech demos to try things out, not that I've done many of them in the last few years either.

But, if you feel the need to go rip something of mine apart then feel free;
Game Texture Loader
OpenGL Window Framework

A bit old as they are from 2004, so my coding style has changed a bit over the years, but feel free to take it apart if it will make you feel better :)

Sponsor:

#102 SteveDeFacto   Banned   -  Reputation: 109

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:04 PM


In real life you must be a very angry person if after all of this time you still can't control yourself in an online forum... I actually know you a lot better than you know me. I've been on this site for a lot longer than my account says I have. You've always been a bully and yet every time I've seen you get rated down, the next thing I know the down rating magically disappears... Diplomatic immunity I presume?


Unless you have met me in real life then you don't know me at all regardless of how long you have been here :)

No, I am direct and to the point; to 'bully' someone I would have to follow them around the site constantly pointing out why they are "wrong", and frankly I have better things to do with my time upto and including sitting around doing nothing :) For example while I have seen and looked at your posts on this site have I commented? No. Have I down rated you here or in another thread I've not commented on? No.

If you consider 'pointing out someone is wrong' as bullying... well, I have no words, but you need to develop a slightly thicker skin...

Also feel free not to throw accusations around; mods to not get any form of immunity and my rating hasn't been 'adjusted' after the fact.. in fact it has dropped a few points in the last couple of days.. and due to what I can assume is some form bug I can see who has down rated me (s'up Hodgman and mrbastard in this thread alone) and guess what; I haven't down rated them back.

None of which makes your code any better or your engine any more 'next gen'.. but hey, if attacking me makes you feel better then carry on! It amuses me that I can get under your skin with such ease :)



Calling out Hodgman and mrbastard is kinda childish... Anyway, I would find it a lot easier to respect your criticism if you would show some of your work...

#103 SteveDeFacto   Banned   -  Reputation: 109

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:15 PM

Game Texture Loader
OpenGL Window Framework


Umhmm... Do you have anything a bit more advanced?

#104 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7398

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:46 PM

Calling out Hodgman and mrbastard is kinda childish... Anyway, I would find it a lot easier to respect your criticism if you would show some of your work...


As far as I know you can all see who down rated someone else, just not who down rated yourself... but my point was that they have down rated the comments in their thread and I've done nothing back as they are entitled to their opinion.

#105 JDX_John   Members   -  Reputation: 284

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:57 PM

Post code or it doesn't matter.

You want him to post the code of a whole engine?!

www.simulatedmedicine.com - medical simulation software

Looking to find experienced Ogre & shader developers/artists. PM me or contact through website with a contact email address if interested.


#106 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7398

Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:58 PM


Game Texture Loader
OpenGL Window Framework


Umhmm... Do you have anything a bit more advanced?


Most 'advanced' stuff is things I've done at work so no, nothing that I can point at directly... the most recent thing I've done goes back a little over a year and was only 2D particle system which was for learning purposes with regards to task based systems and a bit of DoD/SIMD work, mostly of 'the hell of it'. The code isn't really bad, but it's not what I'd consider 'great' either as it was just prototype work and never designed for much beyond that. Having been working for the past few years my desire to do anything 'big' somewhat vanished, I play around from time to time to keep my knowledge up to date for work related reasons (thus the 2D particle sytem which was a perfect task based DoD test bed).

For something designed for human consumption those two libraries above are probably the cleanest code, which is my own, I've got laying around...

#107 SteveDeFacto   Banned   -  Reputation: 109

Posted 01 September 2011 - 05:03 PM



Game Texture Loader
OpenGL Window Framework


Umhmm... Do you have anything a bit more advanced?


Most 'advanced' stuff is things I've done at work so no, nothing that I can point at directly... the most recent thing I've done goes back a little over a year and was only 2D particle system which was for learning purposes with regards to task based systems and a bit of DoD/SIMD work, mostly of 'the hell of it'. The code isn't really bad, but it's not what I'd consider 'great' either as it was just prototype work and never designed for much beyond that. Having been working for the past few years my desire to do anything 'big' somewhat vanished, I play around from time to time to keep my knowledge up to date for work related reasons (thus the 2D particle sytem which was a perfect task based DoD test bed).

For something designed for human consumption those two libraries above are probably the cleanest code, which is my own, I've got laying around...



How did you manage to get a job without a portfolio?

#108 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7398

Posted 01 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

How did you manage to get a job without a portfolio?


Because I have an intresting past...

I flamed out of uni the first time out in 2001, in 2002 I got a job at a company of 3 people as the only C++ code, initially maintaining the custom software and then, in the back end of 2003, designing and writing a multi-threaded C++/Lua based system which could query ~50,000 game servers (CS, Quake, TF etc), parse their output and write out the results in less than 3mins with 100% uptime. (The software was designed and written in ~6 weeks with Xmas in the middle of it. Worked first time.) That job ended as a full time position at the start of 2004 but I did contract work for the next year or so.

In 2005 I went to the local college to get my degree (BSc(Hons) Software Engineering), graduating in 2007 as I was allowed to start in the 2nd year due to previous experiance. (Degree courses in the UK are generally 3 years, but only the last 2 count towards your final mark). Due to a combination of personal issues during those years I only managed a 2:2, however my final year project (coded in a couple of weeks, written up in a few days) was a GPGPU based project using OpenGL and was marked as a 1st; my code and design module results were also 1st or 2:1 (UK degree classification goes 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd).

During this period, I think it was before the course started, I wrote the chapter on GLSL for More OpenGL Game Programming; a book which had many contributions by people on this site at the time.

At the end of 2007 I went for an interview for a job at a company called Zoe Mode; my CV had that stuff in it, including the two projects above, and I demostrated my technical ability both in the programming test and the Q&A segment of the interview.

In short; I have experiance, a bit of paper and I'm good at what I do... *shrugs*

#109 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 16035

Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:03 PM


Post code or it doesn't matter.

You want him to post the code of a whole engine?!


Yes. Why not?


(Anyways, I recommend you read the full thread - the code was posted a long time ago (not long after my post which you quoted, in fact) and there's been quite a bit of discussion on it.)

#110 Krohm   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3171

Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:42 AM

Also: Hodgeman for mod. Consistently correct, informative and friendly. All at the same time!

I fully endorse this product and/or service. Posted Image

Anyway, I would find it a lot easier to respect your criticism if you would show some of your work...

C'mon Steve, it's not they're saying something hard to understand. Be honest to yourself. Recognizing your problems is the first step in solving them.

#111 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2173

Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:54 AM

As usually, ApocPiQ was harsh. But as usually, the info was there in the post. Garnish is nothing, info is everything. We are (or should be) grown up men and women after all.

(And as usually, my post was a "thank you, you can sit down now" post....)

#112 mrbastard   Members   -  Reputation: 1573

Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:37 AM

Replying to both Apoch and Phantom here, as replying to individual points will get messy, fast. Sorry guys, I know you aren't the same person and have acted differently in this thread, but I think my main point here is that you're moderators, and I expect better, for which it's easier to lump you together.



Honestly, the problem is that you appeared to enjoy criticising. You clearly spent considerable time and effort on your criticism, and it seemed to me that you were motivated more by the enjoyment than the help you were giving. I think the sheer volume of criticism, some of it (but certainly not all, I agree) on topics where the OP had not solicited your advice, is what left a bad taste. If this guy is so undeserving of your attention, then I can only imagine that your motivation for continuing has to be either to put him down or to enjoy yourself. If his replies discourage you from helping, just stop replying. You're bigger than that. You don't have anything to prove by continuing to 'help'. Continuing to reply, but in a less friendly manner, doesn't really help anyone.

I think maybe the bits that came across as unnecessary to me were bits where you were actually trying to inject some humour to lighten the mood - well intentioned I'm sure, but when it's not clear whether you're laughing with or at somebody, it's wise to be careful.

I can be similar when writing code reviews - but I've learnt that it usually ends up with the advice being ignored because the person you're advising just doesn't trust you any more.


#113 mdwh   Members   -  Reputation: 890

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:43 AM

How did you manage to get a job without a portfolio?

In the UK, for graduate jobs in my experience, companies didn't really care about things like "portfolios". I talked about the personal projects I'd worked on, but they weren't interested in seeing actual demos or my own code - they were more interested in my academic qualifications, and setting their own tests at the interview. (And I did get a job offer at a games company.)
http://erebusrpg.sourceforge.net/ - Erebus, Open Source RPG for Windows/Linux/Android
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.harman/conquests.html - Conquests, Open Source Civ-like Game for Windows/Linux

#114 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 16035

Posted 02 September 2011 - 03:52 PM

Honestly, the problem is that you appeared to enjoy criticising. You clearly spent considerable time and effort on your criticism, and it seemed to me that you were motivated more by the enjoyment than the help you were giving. I think the sheer volume of criticism, some of it (but certainly not all, I agree) on topics where the OP had not solicited your advice, is what left a bad taste. If this guy is so undeserving of your attention, then I can only imagine that your motivation for continuing has to be either to put him down or to enjoy yourself. If his replies discourage you from helping, just stop replying. You're bigger than that. You don't have anything to prove by continuing to 'help'. Continuing to reply, but in a less friendly manner, doesn't really help anyone.


Did you totally miss the part where I stopped responding after it became clear that the OP wasn't interested in the feedback I offered? I don't understand what you're reading into my posts here, but it's certainly nothing like what my intentions were. I specifically said at one point that I would stop critiquing the project, and I've stayed true to that. I only revisit the thread out of curiosity and interest in following the discussion.

Who says he's "undeserving of [our] attention" anyways? I've made a point of saying, over and over again, that there's some impressive accomplishments in here for a lone programmer, and I've gone out of my way to encourage him to continue working on the project. I remember specifically saying not to give up over the criticism.

My goal was to help the OP understand the limits of what he's done, and provide some possible avenues for furthering his skills as a programmer, beyond the scope of just realizing this particular project. I certainly do not come here to get my jollies by harassing people, if that's what you're trying to imply, and I rather resent that you continue to paint me with this brush with so little supporting evidence.

#115 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2919

Posted 02 September 2011 - 04:10 PM

This thread is a wonderful demonstration of how far GDNet has fallen. Experienced posters try to help and they end up being the ones attacked. They're so outnumbered by idiots and beginners these days that threads spend the majority of their life discussing the tone of individual responses instead of the actual technical content contained therein.

Stay classy GameDev.
Mike Popoloski | Journal | SlimDX

#116 mrbastard   Members   -  Reputation: 1573

Posted 02 September 2011 - 06:41 PM

OK, my last post on this. It's really none of my business and I have better things to do, as I'm sure you all do.

Apoch - I think I've made it clear in absolutely all my posts that I don't think you intended to be nasty, but that I think appearances matter a great deal because moderators set the tone here. My intention was to point out that the tone appeared combative for no real reason, not paint you as a bad guy who only comes here to be a bully. I don't think anyone would dispute your technical knowledge or general helpfulness and active contribution to the site. I wanted to point out that I thought there was something amiss, and I've done so. If you disagree, that's fine. As part of my criticism of your criticism (heh) was the sheer volume of it, I'd be rather silly to belabour my own point. Posted Image So I'll stop.

To clarify what I meant about being deserving of attention: Phantom suggested that his replies had grown more curt in response to the OP's tone - I took this to mean he felt the OP was less deserving of help than he had previously believed him to be. If he felt his help wasn't wanted or deserved (which I may well be misinterpreting) that's where I think he should have just stopped replying. I don't think there was anything for anyone to gain at that point beyond winning an argument, but I may be oblivious to whatever it is that motivates people to contribute so much to a forum, and so I concede that a less sinister motivation is more likely. It's perhaps not a very good use of anyone's time though. Speaking of which...

-moves away from keyboard


#117 mrbastard   Members   -  Reputation: 1573

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:18 PM

In the UK, for graduate jobs in my experience, companies didn't really care about things like "portfolios". I talked about the personal projects I'd worked on, but they weren't interested in seeing actual demos or my own code - they were more interested in my academic qualifications, and setting their own tests at the interview. (And I did get a job offer at a games company.)


Though I didn't really have a portfolio, after the initial introduction by a friend my 'break in' interview was largely the result of having a body of code online that they could look at. A quick glance suggested I probably wasn't a complete waste of time, so I got an interview. I think having something to show definitely helps.

3 years later, my only other games job interview (I was offered the job, but didn't take it) was largely just tech talk. Both had technical tests, but neither were really concerned with academic qualifications. They definitely help though. I'm sure that without being introduced by a friend in the first case, and having a couple of games to point to in the second, my academic qualifications would have mattered more to them.

I think portfolios are much more important if you're applying for a specialist role, but I was always a general dogsbody coder.


#118 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7398

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:51 PM

To clarify what I meant about being deserving of attention: Phantom suggested that his replies had grown more curt in response to the OP's tone - I took this to mean he felt the OP was less deserving of help than he had previously believed him to be. If he felt his help wasn't wanted or deserved (which I may well be misinterpreting) that's where I think he should have just stopped replying.


My replies will drop 'friendly' tone in many cases, however while I'm able to leave a thread alone (and have done so on my occasions on this site and others) I also have a stubon streak which means I will keep bashing people over the head with the same knowledge in the hope that some of it will get through and they will get of a bad path. (There is also a modulation applied to my replies depending on where the post is made, posting in the lounge will turn off a few internal filters). In fact I had become bored of this thread and was backing out when I suddenly came under attack from a few people, one of whom has a personal axe to grind (s'up Mikeman), and got dragged back in to defend myself.

I don't think there was anything for anyone to gain at that point beyond winning an argument,


Pfft, it wasn't an arguement... arguement implies I could have been wrong... ;)

but I may be oblivious to whatever it is that motivates people to contribute so much to a forum, and so I concede that a less sinister motivation is more likely.


As pointed out above my reason for posting is to help people out... I might do it with direct means but that's how I do it (since before I was a mod) and it works both on here and in real life, and judging by the net gain in rating over the course of this thread it would seem those who have a problem with it are in the minority *shrugs*

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong? If those who feel wronged can get a decent number of people to come forward who feel I should no longer be a moderator because of my posting style then I'll gladly step down... will of the community and all that...

#119 Washu   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 5360

Posted 02 September 2011 - 09:37 PM

Posted Image

In time the project grows, the ignorance of its devs it shows, with many a convoluted function, it plunges into deep compunction, the price of failure is high, Washu's mirth is nigh.
ScapeCode - Blog | SlimDX





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