Hi,

I am a german student, who is working on his private game project in his spare time
Just as a note: I am FAR away to release anything, but I might someday...

And I wonder if could release on I-Pad then. I absolutely dislike Apples closed devices, but it is
good way to reach average joe users and the device itself is cool.

As a one-man-show i decided to use java and believe that was a good decision because of its very mature and powerful
tools (Netbeans refactoring).

I wrote my own jni layer around opengl, so there will be some c++ compiling and dll loading too.

Here my question:
Is there any possibility to get on the i pad legally ? This information is kinda hard to find.

There are several ways, that might work:
-Strip OpenJDK, compile the jvm for i-pad and bundle it with the game. Might be tricky, but could work. I don´t need swing etc. at all. Only basic datatructures (HashMap, linked list etc.),
BufferedImage,BufferedReader (could roll own versions of that too).
-Use gcj (What about reflection ?)
-Excelsior Jet (pricey ;-))

Would it even be legal to do so ? I kinda read about ridicolous rules against crosscompiling - that would be bad.

Hope to find the people, who know about gaming, java and the i pad in this forum !!!

Thanks,
Frederick

As a one-man-show i decided to use java and believe that was a good decision because of its very mature and powerful
tools (Netbeans refactoring).

It's also not supported on iPad, which makes it completely wrong choice.

I wrote my own jni layer around opengl, so there will be some c++ compiling and dll loading too.[/quote]
Which will further complicate issues.

Is there any possibility to get on the i pad legally ? This information is kinda hard to find.[/quote]
You cannot deploy via AppStore, which is the only way such applications can be distributed.

Would it even be legal to do so ?[/quote]
Yes, it would be legal. There are no laws against it. With possible exception of DMCA or ACTA.

But the steps needed would violate Apple's EULA, thereby voiding any kind of warranty and support. It may also lead to termination of any kind of Apple account you might have.

Hope to find the people, who know about gaming, java and the i pad in this forum !!! [/quote]
Java isn't supported on iPad, so beyond people who root phones for sake of challenge, there won't be any useful information.

Such applications cannot be realistically distributed so they defeat the purpose. If you want to prove that a Java/OGL application can run on iPad, then it's been done. But it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Use Obj-C. "It's not a big deal".

Use Obj-C. "It's not a big deal".[/quote]

When it was not clear from my first post: I have already heavy invested in the java platform. When I started work on the project, the I-Pad most likely didn´t even exist as a concept. Using
Obj-C is just not an option. Although it is based on smalltalk, which is good, it is a niche solution forced on to the developers by apple. No point in rewriting a non trivial codebase.

So its not about proving anything. I just want to know, if there is any way to release on i-pad. Technically there is no problem at all. It is all about Apples proprietary business model.

Which will further complicate issues.[/quote]
C/C++ is legal on the I-Pad.
gcj would produce code that is possibly undistinguishable von "normal" C/C++. just
searching for options here.

>You cannot deploy via AppStore, which is the only way such applications can be distributed.
Thats sad. I guess the conditions are different to the MacOS AppStore. Here is a solution for Mono
http://tirania.org/monomac/archive/2011/Jan-10.html
But I guess its not valid for i-pad.

Such applications cannot be realistically distributed so they defeat the purpose.[/quote]

As I said my project is older than the i-pad and in these times java was a totally viable option on maxosx.

C/C++ is legal on the I-Pad.

There are no laws covering computer languages, so word "legal" doesn't have a meaning.

In order for someone to install such an app, you need to have your app published via AppStore. Apple will not accept such an application. There is nothing legal or illegal about it, just a set of arbitrary rules imposed by the only gatekeeper that matters.

You might spend a lot of time mangling your app to work on iPad, only to have it rejected.

Thats sad. I guess the conditions are different to the MacOS AppStore.[/quote]
Yes, they are.

iOS will, eventually (which may be next year) move towards merging the desktop and mobile markets.

As I said my project is older than the i-pad and in these times java was a totally viable option on maxosx.[/quote]

It still is, but not for iPhone or iOS.

Obj-C is just not an option. Although it is based on smalltalk, which is good, it is a niche solution forced on to the developers by apple.[/quote]
Non-issue. Obj-c is the language of iOS platform. Going with C or C++ or any other option is very risky as has been proven in the past. Apple isn't afraid to eliminate entire ecosystem in one patch. The only guarantee you have for longevity is Objective-C. What the language is or isn't doesn't matter.

I have already heavy invested in the java platform.[/quote]
Recently there was a discussion on project management. One of huge mistakes developers make is sunk cost fallacy.

If you want to monetize your game, then port it and earn hard cash.
Otherwise, accept that current project isn't viable on iOS.

The only reason developers go on iOS system is precisely because of monetization. There are a lot of people with money (1) and a lot of people who spend money (2). Most ecosystems have (1) or (2), only Apple has (1+2) which means good revenue.

But as said, there are many restrictions, which is why Apple isn't above experimentation.

just a set of arbitrary rules imposed by the only gatekeeper that matters.[/quote]

Yes exactly seems pretty arbitrary to me Possibly they fear the bundled vm could be manipulated to run any non-packaged code, or something like that.

iOS will, eventually (which may be next year) move towards merging the desktop and mobile markets.[/quote]

Hmm, I fear this isn´t exactly good news concerning the openess of the apple computer platform.

Recently there was a discussion on project management. One of huge mistakes developers make is sunk cost fallacy.

If you want to monetize your game, then port it and earn hard cash.[/quote]

I see that... but I like the project the way it is. It has turned out nice - it was a little work to setup java with c++, but overall it does me good. I can think of an obj-c port,
when I have accomplished something with my work, but at the moment I should really concentrate on moving on, otherwise I won´t get done anything. I am already developing
every tiny bit by myself and thats so extremly time consuming - I just have to concentrate on results by now.

Of course I think of some monetization and reaching the right audience. Don´t want to get rich, but maybe finance quarter/half of month salary or something like that. Just a dream of going indie...

Otherwise, accept that current project isn't viable on iOS.[/quote]
Right, thats a bit sad. But maybe there will be alternatives in a year or two - I hope so.

Thanks for clearing that up,
Frederik

Hi CaptainJester - I probably will !

If LWJGL works on Android thats great news. I have a fair chance then to get my framework working as well. I looked into LWJGL, but chose to "roll my own" (TM), to keep in control of things .

Anyhow I would be interested how LWJGL was compiled for Android. If you could give me a pointer to compilers/development tools that would be awesome!

Cheers,
Frederik

Sadly Apple is selfish and only lets you deploy in their stupid XCode which only Apple computers can use (Ironic, huh?). But Java is great to use to make android applications and if you want to deploy for a mobile device I would suggest using Java. Also the IDE Eclipse has an addon you can get and download to use to make and test right on your computer. http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html