65 replies to this topic

[zedz]

ok I dug out the old keyboard (hence the dust) if you accidentally(*) press the power button it will shut off the machine (just like the power supply has been turned off) i.e. it wont save things first

(*)& with it being so close to other keys I done it ~3x before I got a new keyboard, a little switch on the corner or something that youre accidentally not going to touch is a far better idea

[tstrimple]

ok I dug out the old keyboard (hence the dust) if you accidentally(*) press the power button it will shut off the machine (just like the power supply has been turned off) i.e. it wont save things first

(*)& with it being so close to other keys I done it ~3x before I got a new keyboard, a little switch on the corner or something that youre accidentally not going to touch is a far better idea

If we're just talking about poor design decisions... there are millions of examples of those floating around. I agree with the others that the concept isn't necessarily useless however.

[cowsarenotevil]

ok I dug out the old keyboard (hence the dust) if you accidentally(*) press the power button it will shut off the machine (just like the power supply has been turned off) i.e. it wont save things first

I don't see how that's possible provided that the keyboard isn't more or less directly connected to the power supply. I mean, maybe a special homeopathic keyboard that has an infinitesimal amount of electricity mixed into the plastic, but otherwise, not so much.

[BeanDog]

How about those fake "collector" coins they sell on late-night TV? You know, like the ones that look like Civil War-era coins, but are three times bigger and stamped out of iron rather than silver. Do people buy those things?

[zedz]

ok I dug out the old keyboard (hence the dust) if you accidentally(*) press the power button it will shut off the machine (just like the power supply has been turned off) i.e. it wont save things first

I don't see how that's possible provided that the keyboard isn't more or less directly connected to the power supply. I mean, maybe a special homeopathic keyboard that has an infinitesimal amount of electricity mixed into the plastic, but otherwise, not so much.

perhaps it is homeopathy at work or perhaps its magic!
I mean how on earth can you explain the fact that the PC turns on just by pressing the power key (or whatever key combination you have it set to in the bios) on the keyboard.

[way2lazy2care]

How about those fake "collector" coins they sell on late-night TV? You know, like the ones that look like Civil War-era coins, but are three times bigger and stamped out of iron rather than silver. Do people buy those things?

I think it's funnier that most of those fake coins are minted in small poor countries so they can say that they are "legal tender".

For example, these are $2 legal tender in Niue, which I did not even know was a country until I found the coins.

[FableFox]

ok I dug out the old keyboard (hence the dust) if you accidentally(*) press the power button it will shut off the machine (just like the power supply has been turned off) i.e. it wont save things first

(*)& with it being so close to other keys I done it ~3x before I got a new keyboard, a little switch on the corner or something that youre accidentally not going to touch is a far better idea

Remind me of my old keyboard where power / sleep / wakeup replaced the delete / end / pagedown, and print screen / scroll lock / pause break was shifted up along with other keys.

Statistically I understand the design, people all over the world does not keep their PC in vampiric mode, although some people does so that they doesn't have to go through the reboot mode. and most people put their cpu under the desk. and when was the last time a person press scroll lock or pause break. So I do use print screen here and there to write tutorials, but for most people? So some genius move all that key up, insert / home / page up shifted up with all the rest.

While it easy for people to shut down / sleep / warm up their pc, the problem it that those key replaced a well used and remember key (delete / end / page down). if nothing was shifed and instead they replace the upper key where print screen / scroll lock / pause break, it would have been ok.

[benryves]

and when was the last time a person press scroll lock or pause break.

Programmers will likely use the "Break" key quite a bit when debugging, and the "Pause" bit was used in several games (DOOM, for example). As for Scroll Lock, the only widely-used piece of software I know of that still supports it is Excel.

However, Print Screen is used a fair amount and there are few things as irritating as pressing what you thought was Print Screen only for your PC to start shutting down.

[Tachikoma]

"Quaid... Quaid... start the reactor... free Mars..."

[way2lazy2care]

"Quaid... Quaid... start the reactor... free Mars..."

buzz immediately killed.

[mdwh]

I too hate the "Power" keyboard buttons. On mine, it has the same effect as pressing the computer's power button - so it's a "soft" shutdown, but still incredibly annoying to have everything close, and have to reboot, just because you accidently pressed the wrong key.

I don't see how a hard to reach button on the computer is a reason - shutting down can easily be done in software (and if the system's crashed, a soft power key won't help you either).

It would be fine if they stuck it somewhere on the keyboard away from the rest of the keys, like on the side or the corner, and made it a _button_, not a key, like you get on laptops. Imagine if the power off on laptops was simply another key alongside the others in the keyboard? It's even worse that the location of the power key is in the same location as commonly used keys on standard keyboards (for me, IIRC it's where the Home key usually is).

The only fix I could find (aside from buying a new keyboard) was to disable what the power button does - but now that also means my physical power button doesn't work (unless I hold it down for a hard reset), so I'm back to shutting down the normal way anyway.

[phantom]

So basically what you and Zedz are saying is dumb people buy keyboards with stupid key layouts?

Back in around 2000 I had a keyboard with a 'power off' button on it, it wasn't a standard key and it was off to one side thus I never accidently hit it.

In short;
- Idea is sound
- People buy stupid implementations and then cry about it

Solution; don't be stupid and buy a bad product.

[FableFox]

So basically what you and Zedz are saying is dumb people buy keyboards with stupid key layouts?

Back in around 2000 I had a keyboard with a 'power off' button on it, it wasn't a standard key and it was off to one side thus I never accidently hit it.

In short;
- Idea is sound
- People buy stupid implementations and then cry about it

Solution; don't be stupid and buy a bad product.

Nope. Mine was free with the PC. It wasn't long before I went out and buy a new, standard one. Let just say at those time (early 2000) I write a lot (in University) and I want my fingers easily access those usual button pg up / pg down, home end, insert delete not far from the arrow.

I did some google, and found this. Ah, the memories

http://filedb.expert...22022010024.jpg

Does anyone know how to make the linked image smaller? I'm lost there....

edit: Oh wait, the forum automatically resize it

[mdwh]

Blimey, clam down - no need to start flaming!

I'm just agreeing with him that it's a bad idea. I fail to see how it's dumb to be unaware of a product flaw before I use a product. I wasn't previously aware that keyboards would do these things, so didn't consider inspecting every key on the keyboard, nor would I have been aware of the lack of configuration. (It also doesn't help when every other keyboard on the shop shelf has some kind of annoying aspect to it; also interesting that you assume that people are buying keyboards separately, and didn't just come as part of a PC as is usual.)

Not to mention that the flaw isn't obvious until you use it - you yourself have a hard time understanding what the problem is: it's not with a power button on keyboards as such, but the risk of accidently hitting it. You can't get the problem after having 3 people explain it to you, yet you think _we're_ the stupid ones because we weren't already aware of it.

Back in around 2000 I had a keyboard with a 'power off' button on it, it wasn't a standard key and it was off to one side thus I never accidently hit it.

Not what anyone is talking about. To clarify, I was talking about the power buttons that had already been clearly described (with a picture, even), and was not meant to imply I hated all power buttons everywhere. I hoped that was obvious, given the context of the discussion, and my comments about power keys as part of the keyboard, versus power buttons attached to the same unit. (Indeed, if it wasn't a key and off to the side, it's not part of the keyboard, just as a laptop power button isn't part of the keyboard, though we tend to use "keyboard" to refer to the entire device. But I made the distinction in my post, anyway.)

- Idea is sound

I already mentioned that being a reasonable idea in my post.

- People buy stupid implementations and then cry about it

No one is crying - but er, yes. People do criticise bad products. By your logic, no one should ever criticise any product. According to you, the customers are to blame for bad products or poor design issues. Probably a thread dedicated to dumb products isn't one that you should be reading. Quibbling the difference between "idea" and "implementation" isn't relevant, when it's the specific implementation being criticised. I'd already myself made the distinction between the good way to do it, and the bad way to do it.

Solution; don't be stupid and buy a bad product.

Firstly, quit with the insults - you're meant to be a moderator. Secondly, one reason to be aware of bad products is that people say about them. You've never ever ever bought a product that had a problem? And if you did, that would make you stupid? If you say so.

[FableFox]

and interestingly, from where i got the picture,

http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/A_2155-Keyboard-Remapping-CAPSLOCK-to-Ctrl-and-Beyond.html

it's 2011 and people prefer to go registry editing and what not instead of going out and buy a new keyboard. here i can buy one at USD 3. And he's willing to wait for a year none the less for a reply comment

[mdwh]

Note that keyboards aren't always that cheap, depending where you are. But yes, the funny thing he's waiting a year. If there was a quick registry fix you could do, that would be quicker (even if you didn't care about cost) than buying a new keyboard. Personally I just disabled it in the standard Windows power options, though.

[Luckless]

I don't see how a hard to reach button on the computer is a reason - shutting down can easily be done in software (and if the system's crashed, a soft power key won't help you either).

A: Depends on how it is configured to work. I have used on system that allowed the "Keyboard" power button to function identically to the case power button, hard locks/crashes and all.

B: Try this: Turn your computer off, now use the start menu to turn it back on,... How well did that one work for you?

[Serapth]

I heavily disagree with the first post. The tap to start faucet is absolutely brilliant and useful on about a hundred thousand different levels, from not having to wash the damned thing because you got crap from your dirty hands all over it, to the hygienic aspect of all the damned people that touched it before you. Granted, motion sensitive makes more sense, but those damned things never works.

My few additions to the thread:

Douche - as in the literal product. As in the product that not only didn't do anything positive, but actually caused health problems. It was pulled from the market, but I think its back.

The Dyson Airblade - Ok, this is a brilliant idea, a fan with no exposed moving parts and that makes no noise. BRILLIANT. Except of course the fact its 300+$. 300$, for a fan! Seriously, who the hell is willing to pay 300$ for a fan! I am pretty frivolous with my money and I loves me a new gadget, but thats taking things to extremes even for me.

Organic for ever con, there is a sucker and my god are there a lot of suckers on the organic train. My personal favorite is "certified organic"... yeah, ok, by who??? Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand when it comes to produce not wanting to have pesticides on your food ( although personally, I'd rather pesticides than shriveled bug ridden garbage ) and in that regard organics make sense. For just about every big name mass produced commerical product however? Its a marketing gimmick. It's 2010s "lite" or "low in fat". (Which the FDA had to step in and legally define as it was being abused so badly )

[Casey Hardman]

I heavily disagree with the first post. The tap to start faucet is absolutely brilliant and useful on about a hundred thousand different levels, from not having to wash the damned thing because you got crap from your dirty hands all over it, to the hygienic aspect of all the damned people that touched it before you. Granted, motion sensitive makes more sense, but those damned things never works.

My few additions to the thread:

Douche - as in the literal product. As in the product that not only didn't do anything positive, but actually caused health problems. It was pulled from the market, but I think its back.

The Dyson Airblade - Ok, this is a brilliant idea, a fan with no exposed moving parts and that makes no noise. BRILLIANT. Except of course the fact its 300+$. 300$, for a fan! Seriously, who the hell is willing to pay 300$ for a fan! I am pretty frivolous with my money and I loves me a new gadget, but thats taking things to extremes even for me.

Organic for ever con, there is a sucker and my god are there a lot of suckers on the organic train. My personal favorite is "certified organic"... yeah, ok, by who??? Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand when it comes to produce not wanting to have pesticides on your food ( although personally, I'd rather pesticides than shriveled bug ridden garbage ) and in that regard organics make sense. For just about every big name mass produced commerical product however? Its a marketing gimmick. It's 2010s "lite" or "low in fat". (Which the FDA had to step in and legally define as it was being abused so badly )

Like I said about the faucet, your elbows/arms would always seem to work fine. Unless you're a really frail person, you can easily push that knob up with your arm. It's like, .25x harder than just tapping it, and to me, that's not worth buying a new faucet. In my opinion, you will almost always have just as much ability of pushing the handle up with your elbow/arm than you will tapping it with your elbow/arm. I literally do this every day when washing my hands - wet them, turn it off, soap my hands, then push the knob up again with my arm and wash off the soap.

I totally agree with about those fans, however. They were really nice and all (saw like 4 of them in a store once, all of which were running), but I wouldn't think they'd be worth over 4x as much as a regular fan. After all, a fan I use (every single day to keep my Toshiba laptop with a failing fan from overheating) has the blades encased pretty heavily. I couldn't stick my finger in there if I tried. Of course, papers and such could still get in.
I just don't understand - they aren't using blades or spinning motors (whatever regular fans use), so why do they need to charge so much more? Is it really such cutting-edge technology?

[way2lazy2care]

I just don't understand - they aren't using blades or spinning motors (whatever regular fans use), so why do they need to charge so much more? Is it really such cutting-edge technology?

It uses a fan, it's just encased in the base. The separation from there to where the air is expelled levels the resulting turbulence from that. I think there's a couple videos explaining it. There was a cool video of them exploiting the smaller versions perfectly party balloon sized shape which allowed them to make a balloon coaster.