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OpenGL32 - what is it, where do I get it, and is it worth it?


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#1 tollingbell   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 03:06 AM

I realize this question might be slightly newbie-ish for this forum. If I offend anyone, I apologize. I am a college grad who has used SGI''s OpenGL on IRIX machines, as well as the wimpy GLUT for beginners on Linux. Of course, I''d used these for classes, and game development is an entirely different beast. From my brief use of Direct3D, I understand that Direct3D is much lower level, and OpenGL is (sort of) more like a Direct3D retained mode implementation, except MUCH better and faster so it can be used in games. What exactly is OpenGL32? Does it have a downloadable SDK? Is it a good idea to make a preliminary game engine in OpenGL32 as opposed to Direct3D? The reason I ask this is that I''m not really aware of any games since Quake3 that run in OpenGL; nowadays everything seems to be Direct3D. Thanks for taking time to read this guys. **************************************** A Linux user... by decision, by destiny, and by doom.

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#2 Null and Void   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1087

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 06:22 AM

Games aren''t made in OpenGL? Anyway: why not use it? It''s just as fast (even a little faster than Direct3D on NVidia based cards, since NVidia''s OpenGL drivers are extremely well written), cross-platform, easy to use, et cetera. You shouldn''t need to download anything to use OpenGL, it comes with just about every compiler (on a 32bit machine OpenGL is OpenGL32). In Windows only 1.1 is supported, but you can access features in 1.3+ through extensions (they''re discussing 2.0 and simply ignoring Microsoft and releasing their own libraries and DLL''s, if you read the notes). NVidia has an SDK for it, but it isn''t needed. The last 7 rewrites of my engine have used OpenGL, and I haven''t found a reason to stop yet .

[Resist Windows XP''s Invasive Production Activation Technology!]

#3 zedzeek   Members   -  Reputation: 528

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 09:54 AM

opengl + d3d have about the same level of abstraction from the hardware. though with opengl u have the option of hardware specific extensions ie which enable u to extract the full power speed from a card. (something that d3d lacks)

Quake 3: Arena; Serious Sam; Baldur''s Gate 2; Tribes 2; Alice; Descent 3; Homeworld; Soldier of Fortune;

#4 tollingbell   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 01:50 PM

I don''t doubt there are lots of games, especially those based off of ID''s action game engines (e.g. Quakes, Half-life, etc.) that use OpenGL. Come to think of it, OpenGL is most popular in action game engines. I wonder what Warcraft3, Independence War 2, Black and White, and other more recent non-action games use... I''d have to go look it up.

I could be totally wrong about this, but I have heard that Direct3D is slightly better at handling lots of polygons and textures (depending on its implementation with the video cards), so even though it is slightly slower than OpenGL, it is better for making detailed games with less emphasis on frame-rate. Any ideas about that?

Other than that, I''m pretty much anti-Microsoft. I''d sooner use a product that is compatible with everything (and I actually have a little OpenGL experience to boot). Still, making a game engine is a big time investment, and I don''t want to have to start from scratch any more than necessary!



#5 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 01:54 PM

OpenGL has a nice book and a good website you can learn off of.

A god name Jeff Molofee created this site:

nehe.gamedev.net

And the book is "OpenGL Game Programming"

Direct X has alot more books that are pretty good, and thats pretty depressing because I think OpenGL is alot better ( but I also didnt use DX8, I used 7 so things may be different... )

If you really want to learn Direct X, go to

www.PrimaGameDev.com and check out thier Direct X books, they are the best out there..

#6 zedzeek   Members   -  Reputation: 528

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 02:12 PM

whatever number polycounts/texture u can push is all dependant on the card, theres no difference in the api''s in this respect.
the problem with opengl is there used to be shitty pc drivers for it from a lot of companies but since the advent of the quake series q2/q3a things have improved heaps, cause a lot of cards get judged in reviews by how fast can they do q3a. I expect this is gonna continue in the future with the release of doom3 + quake4 (both opengl only).

personally if i was u + were wanting to make a game.
ild look at using an already existing engine eg the tribes2 one or make a mod for an existing game eg halflife or q3a.
these all support opengl + d3d (except q3a) itll save u a lot of time + let u realise your goal much sooner.

#7 tollingbell   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 02:16 PM

Thanks for those tips. You''re definitely right about lack of OpenGL books. It''s sort of unfortunate that OpenGL seems to be viewed just as an educational tool for students in 3D graphics, and as far as game development is concerned no one wants to even suggest that it''s possible to create [gasp] GAMES with OpenGL. On the other hand, all those Direct3D books have "games games games!" in their titles, and many of them do an admirable job showing you how to set up a good game loop as well as throw together Direct3D code.

As a non-developer, I picked up a copy of "The Zen of Direct3D Game Programming" by Peter Walsh. I was not disappointed. Unlike any of those puny college textbooks, or even good OpenGL resources like the OpenGL superbible, it is very specific in its goal: to teach you to make games.

So far, in my brief jaunt with OpenGL gaming, I''ve checked out some lessons at:

http://nehe.gamedev.net/topengl1.asp

#8 tollingbell   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 02:25 PM

Zedzeek,

Thanks for the idea. I thought of picking up and modifying a pre-made engine. Unfortunately, that requires making a big money deal with ID Software, Epic, or some gaming behemoth. Also, the kind of game I''m interested in making really is not an action game. Suffice to say, the best kind of game engine would be one capable of powering Black&White, Sacrifice, and a true-3D SimCity at the same time. Even the most versatile form of the Quake 2 or 3 engine would probably not be right for this game.

So basically, I''ll need to go all out for this! Time to make an engine!

#9 tollingbell   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 September 2001 - 02:27 PM

Hey, what a dolt I am. The site you suggest is the same one I found! Well, great minds think alike!

#10 Pabu   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 September 2001 - 08:54 PM

If you are looking for an existing engine to mess around with, visit www.garagegames.com. They are licensing the engine used to power Tribes 2 for $100 with restrictions on how you can use it. But I think this could be very good for a pure learning purpose.

Edited by - Pabu on September 25, 2001 3:54:48 AM




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