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Covered or Naked, That is a Question?


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#1 cocohuang   Members   -  Reputation: 101

Posted 27 September 2011 - 02:42 AM

The funniest part, for me, the chars look much better fully clothed anyway. Like any warrior is going to go into battle in the armored bikini, Luciana says, one player from Dragon's Call. And another replies: theres nothing wrong with fighting in a bikini.. didnt Scottish men do it in a kilt?. Therefore, some players agree to this effort taken by EverDream Studio, while some hold the opposite view, thinking Never need this difference AT ALL



I like the warrior with bikini in the battle, which one do you prefer when playing games?

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#2 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2647

Posted 27 September 2011 - 03:04 AM

Is there no middle ground between skimpy maid and wearing a burka??

Both in games and in real life, I like practical girls (which none of these are) but there is nothing wrong with showing off a little.
What I prefer depends on the story, and playing on your looks fit right into that sometimes.

I do like bikinis, but I really do not like the blond-sparkly-winged staff look :)

I would assume you will get all kinds of answers to this, since everyone has a different opinion (and should have!)

#3 JoeCooper   Members   -  Reputation: 338

Posted 27 September 2011 - 03:35 AM

Not judging or anything, but when feminist complain about women treated as sex objects, they mean bits like this where the whole concept is based around sex (in both cases). This does it to an almost comical extent. The first lady is like "sex!!!" and the latter is all like "oh no sex!"

I'm not gonna argue whether it's OK or anything, I just found it really, really funny.

#4 DarklyDreaming   Members   -  Reputation: 363

Posted 27 September 2011 - 04:23 AM

Uhm, I like characters that fit into the situation. Scantily clad super-warrior doesn't strike me as practical but neither does your other example. A soldier, or warrior in this case, would go to battle wearing protective gear which exerts the least amount of strain and allows the greatest amount of freedom - both of these cases are absurd and almost satirical in how they fail in both traits.

So, in short, I'd think to pass on both of these designs.
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#5 Dooey Jo   Members   -  Reputation: 100

Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:10 AM

I was going to say that going from "not even underwear" (it's not nude if you can't see the nipples!) to that, is pretty terrible in the other direction, but then I checked the links they had on that forum, and well... Firstly, it seems that's not even what they did, and frankly those designs are a lot better. A warrior with armour instead of a bikini and flappy bits of metal that's going to cut her?! An assassin with stealthy clothing instead of some kind of a corset and knives resting on her bare skin?! If there's anything to laugh at in this story, it's that it apparently takes a massively conservative society to come up with designs that aren't offensively ridiculous.

http://news.mmosite....ong_pants.shtml

Then again, this is one of those "Play now MY LORD *boobs*" games isn't it?

#6 Tachikoma   Members   -  Reputation: 548

Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:58 AM

I don't have an issue either way, I'm more concerned about the choice of clothing for a particular scenario / scene. For example, I find bikinis in snow, in a swamp, or a warrior chick performing some heavy melee moves in skimpy clothes incredibly stupid. That sort of thing has been over done a million times before, specifically to exploit juvenile fantasy at the cost of realism.

I guess I'm not 16 any more.


http://news.mmosite....ong_pants.shtml


Personally I find the clothed examples cooler actually.
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#7 JoeCooper   Members   -  Reputation: 338

Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:06 AM

I agree about the clothed examples. I think that cultural constraint dragged them out of their comfort zones and into interestingland a bit.

#8 Bigdeadbug   Members   -  Reputation: 173

Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:22 AM

I don't quite see the point in these kinds of questions. I know when i check the TERA forums there seems to be hundreds of threads on this or similar topics. If the design fits with the game then its fine in my book. In fact there's no reason not to have both designs within a game if it fits. Frankly if the designer feels happy with the art direction of the game then i don't feel they should try and change it just to appease what will most likely be a vocal minority.

As for changing a game to comply with a certain culture? The only time that it annoys me is when they over compensate. I don't feel i can properly comment on the topic posted by the OP so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. From what i understand they have been legally required to change the content since they released to game in the region. Again that seems reasonable but i would have thought they should have done this pre-release and maybe is down to bad planning on behalf of the company.

(edit: should this not be in the game design section instead of the writing one?)

#9 Telgin   Members   -  Reputation: 200

Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:23 AM

This is something that irks me more and more as I see it and think about it, so I'd say, no I don't like women fighting in bikinis.

Of course, it does always come down to context. Always. If a woman is fighting in melee combat among others who are well protected by plate armor and is wearing nothing but straps of cloth, it's going to bug me. If she does this when armor actually makes a difference, I'm going to think she's stupid. If she does this where she's somehow as tough as those others, I'm going to think the game is stupid. This also applies if she wears plate, but only small pieces that leave vulnerable bits of her uncovered (such as the abdomen).

On the other hand, it seems to be a requirement for women mages to wear as little as possible in most games so I've grown somewhat numb to it for those archetypes. It still seems very strange if you think about it, but at least it's not jarring like being able to take a great axe to the chest without armor on. It still makes me wonder just what type of person she is if she thinks she needs to walk around in all but nothing.

I like realistic and practical characters above all else. Unless the setting is intended to be over the top, at which point the rules change a lot.
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#10 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4577

Posted 27 September 2011 - 12:39 PM

Why is this thread in the writing forum? :unsure: *moves it*

But, I think it's best to have both options available for BOTH GENDERS - I want me some men in 'armor' like this:
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The real problem is games where each class is pretty much required to wear a single set of gear with correct stats for 2-5 levels. If players can choose the appearance of their clothing at all times everyone can wear what they are happy wearing.
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#11 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 18836

Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:02 PM

Scantily clad super-warrior doesn't strike me as practical but neither does your other example. A soldier, or warrior in this case, would go to battle wearing protective gear which exerts the least amount of strain and allows the greatest amount of freedom - both of these cases are absurd and almost satirical in how they fail in both traits.

^^ This.

In real life the difference in body armor of male and female soldiers is very small. You cannot really tell at a distance if the person is male or female without other cues.

"I'm a space shock trooper, and I go into battle in a bikini and helmet." Sorry, but that destroys the illusion.

If gender is significant in your game or story, there are many examples of feminine body armor out there.

Simple color changes, like pink or red armor, or armor with pink/red trim are often used; this is not practical in real life as it would stand out but not a big deal in games. Use of curves for suit and gear instead of angles can suggest feminine and masculine bodies. Addition of hip gear to accentuate the difference in hip shape, different angle joints at the legs to make them look 'leggy' even to the point of using different materials on joints and midriff to create a bikini style effect. Accentuated slender waist or different material in the waist. Different walking gait and postures.

All of these can generate a very strong gender identity without resorting to leaving women warriors exposed for simple sex appeal.
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#12 Default_Ex   Members   -  Reputation: 100

Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:05 PM

As much fun as watching a scantly clad chick swing a weapon around in a provocative manner is, it does look really unrealistic to see their male counter-parts heavily armored in the same battle. With games primarily targeted at pubescent teenagers and agoraphobic men of course their going to go for a sexy design, and it's really hard to make a full suit of armor look sexy.

When it comes to designs like that. I'm in the crowd that views it as ok, but only if it matches the setting. Seeing a scantly clad woman in the very same army as heavily armored men is a far stretch, but if the men are wearing armor that's just as lightweight then it makes a lot more sense.

#13 ChurchSkiz   Members   -  Reputation: 434

Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:43 PM

It's not a matter of preference, it's a cultural issue. They don't want to release bikini laden characters to the arab market. If you look at how women dress in that part of the world, it makes sense.

#14 Nathan Handley   Members   -  Reputation: 792

Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:02 PM

Depends. Generally, I see nude or light-armor as heroic. See:
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Heroic characters have heroic traits. Low reliance on armor signifies natural toughness, which is a desirable physical state. Sexiness and fit/form are also desirable physical states.

Your question and source are more scoped around cultural context. Some cultures-- specifically in America-- it's only really taboo if the female shows skin. If you need an example to prove that, just go to any book store and count the number of super-built-super-sexy men on the covers of the Romance novels. Stores of equal display of topless women here are 'adult only'. Be mindful, that's just America! Think of countries where women are forced to wear clothes head-to-toe. In these, such as the one linked above, it's a no brainer that more needs to be covered.

As long as both genders fit under the same rules in a game, I like it either way. In fact, when I see a powerful character (male or female) messing up hordes of creatures or people wearing bearly anything, I usually think "Damn, he/she is bad ass". On the flip side, I love a good highly ornate heavy armor design as well. In the end, I care more about form rather than function in most fantasy games unless it's a "Super Serious" game with no magic or dragons and stuff.

In the example you linked, however, I like the more covered armor style of the female for sure.

#15 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1623

Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:11 PM

Honestly, I don't really care for the bikini-hero. Assuming this isn't a game that takes place on some tropical island where you're never more than a few miles from some pure white beach surrounded by perfect turquoise blue water, then I really don't know why they would be dressed that way.


The lady in the red dress and veil in the OP's post looks far cooler than the juvenile version above.
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#16 cocohuang   Members   -  Reputation: 101

Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:28 AM

wow, so many views, actually I like the hero with less clothing

#17 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:42 AM

http://news.mmosite....ong_pants.shtml

I prefer the arabian assassin actually. She's still sexy clearly, but not stupid enough to go into battle without anything covering your vital organs.

Another pretty good example is the new tomb raider. I think new lara is WAY more attractive on the whole than in the past. Like not even comparably more attractive than the original. If I ran into her in the general public I would run into oncoming traffic because my life would then be complete.

edit: AND SHE GETS DIRTY! God... I'm not even going to be able to finish this game.

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yes please.
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meh...

#18 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2647

Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:12 AM

I prefer the arabian assassin actually. She's still sexy clearly, but not stupid enough to go into battle without anything covering your vital organs.


Not that thin silk really protects much :)
But who knows, maybe she's got some chainmail under there.
Though I definitely agree...

edit: AND SHE GETS DIRTY! God... I'm not even going to be able to finish this game.


Damn, I think I need to go get me a copy of that...

#19 driftingSpaceMan   Members   -  Reputation: 143

Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:46 AM

It's not just a consideration of sex appeal.

All of these naked people?

Also cheap.



It's easy for concept artists, because they don't have to design much in the way of interesting clothing, and it's easier for the modelers because there's barely anything extra to model, and sometimes it's even just a multi-texturing job.

Intricate articulating armor? We're talking thousands of dollars just for the modeling, and the concept work needs to be much smarter too (to allow for easy articulation, taking into account historical armor engineering).

I'm much more likely to pass off a simple cookie cutter bikini design straight to an art team than I am something more robust (which I would have to personally supervise, and for which the concept art alone could take a few days of iterations if it's not directly copying something).

In art direction, I'm a nightmare because I make my artists come up with more original concepts and style direction. I throw the bikini-clad anime girls back, and I think the body of work that results is the better for it.


As a player, it's hard to care less about sex appeal. I want to see novelty, and good design.

As far as sex appeal goes in playing a game, it has more to do with the dynamic nature of the pose and actions; teasing or clandestine context does more than clothing or lack thereof.

Where advertisement is concerned... boobs *are* an easy way to get attention (keeping it is another matter). I'm more intrigued by well designed creatures in adverts... but, of course, as I mentioned earlier, that kind of thing is substantially more expensive when the old formula of copy and paste boobs is more or less free and works almost as well.

#20 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:16 AM

cut for length

How do you feel about the pictures that were linked? Most of the changing skins aren't really more intricate, they are just slight texture changes like removing the belly button and changing to gray. They appear to have the exact same footprint, so I'm guessing it would just be slight texture change to the original models as well.

Not that thin silk really protects much :)

I viewed it as leather, which is fairly more protective :-p




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