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Java as game programming language?


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#1 Captain Goatse   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 05:30 AM

Ok what do you guys think about Java as game proframming language and I don''t mean applet games that you can find from every site (Asteroids, Tetris, Tic Tac Toe, Chess) I mean real standalone games that can you combine to C++ games I studied C++ and made some games with it, after I heard Java I was very interested about it and immediatly started to study it. Now I''m at the same point when I was with C++. I have totally changed to Java, it was easier to learn to me, Real OOP is very cool thing and it makes things lots of easier than in C++, If code once, run everywhere really works I''m saved from huge amount of work and Sun is still developing it to better and faster. Of course it is slower than C++ and it doesn''t have all graphical APIs and add-ons like Direct X and OpenGL. Of course it is true that Java is still lightyears away from the speed of C++ but i think it will catch it quickly, hopefully. Ok, most of you guys are arrongant C++ fanatics who won''t even look to other languages, because C++ and Assembler are the only and the best. Yeah, right. I want hear comments from people who really know Java not just people who have heard something about it and say that it sucks.

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#2 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 05:36 AM

quote:
Original post by Arch@on

Ok what do you guys think about Java as game proframming language and I don''t mean applet games that you can find from every site (Asteroids, Tetris, Tic Tac Toe, Chess) I mean real standalone games that can you combine to C++ games

I studied C++ and made some games with it, after I heard Java I was very interested about it and immediatly started to study it. Now I''m at the same point when I was with C++. I have totally changed to Java, it was easier to learn to me, Real OOP is very cool thing and it makes things lots of easier than in C++, If code once, run everywhere really works I''m saved from huge amount of work and Sun is still
developing it to better and faster. Of course it is slower than C++ and it doesn''t have all graphical APIs and add-ons like Direct X and OpenGL. Of course it is true that Java is still lightyears away from the speed of C++ but i think it will catch it quickly, hopefully.

Ok, most of you guys are arrongant C++ fanatics who won''t even look to other languages, because C++ and Assembler are the only and the best. Yeah, right. I want hear comments from people who really know Java not just people who have heard something about it and say that it sucks.






#3 NuFAN   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 05:38 AM

Hi,
many companies use Java as a scripting language, but not for the real important stuff. It might be of interest, John Carmack wrote something about using Java in Q3 in GD-Mag a few months ago, but don''t have it in mind anymore. I think for really big games, Java would be too slow, I might be wrong, but ....

CU

Graphix Coding @
Skullpture Entertainment

#4 Delisk   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 06:11 AM

I think Java is very good to program a game.

The best parts of it, is than you can run it on any platform! (If a washing machine use java (at first java was created for this) i could run the game on it! (But it should be hard to control :-))

Im also making game in java (Rigth noe im creating a Myst style of game) And it belive it is good as C++

And about the speed...It is true than their is a difference, but for small game, like most freewae it don''t make any difference at all. And for big game, the difference is not so big!

Delisk
PS-Im sorry, but english is not my native language.
delisk@hotmail.com

#5 joeG   Members   -  Reputation: 172

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 06:36 AM

I'd definitely want to program an involved game in Java. I think its very possible. Concerning technology, you'll have to limit yourself to a genre that doesn't need a super-fast computer to churn out the graphics. In my opinion I think the best java games are:


  • Jump
    Really did a good job with 3D graphics and was a blast to play No hardware acceleration at all! (I think) Of course technology was limited to solid color cubes (with some translucency now and again), but it majored in gameplay. And it was scalable ( to an extent), meaning that people on low-end machines could play it (I played it all the time at school on a 200 Mhz Compaq on full detail).
  • Frag Island(hang on a sec, I'm trying to find a good link to the site ....Got it, everything's ok now )
    Some cool technology that came about two years ago. I was pretty impressed, "This is Java!!!"
  • Graal Anything that is a faithful reproduction of a console favorite is a hit in my book.


OK that's where Java gaming is at (IMO, of course), and, being the optimist that I am, "It can only get better."

My 2 cents.

Edited by - joeG on 1/8/00 12:51:04 PM

#6 CJ   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 06:45 AM

Hmmm, I''ve studies Java and worked with it. I didn''t make a game with it or whatsoever, due to the lack of speed in java. Even with one single button you can see that there''s a delay. I have seen some demo''s of people, and some other nic things.

one of them is a program a friend of mine made, it was a rocket blasting through the universe. When I first saw this program running, I thought "that must be some pictures loaded after each other", but no.....it was all realtime rendered, and it was goodlooking!!! So many details. But...it was only a demo.....once he implemented movement in it, it was too slow to continue working on it.

I think Java is good enough to make games, especially now they have support for DirectX. But me, for myself, will never start using it for such a thing. Maybe a small game.....but that would be all.



Dance with me......

http://members.xoom.com/CJdeVos/index.htm


#7 SonicSilcion   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 08:10 AM

__Technically, Java is head to head with C++. Both offer the ability to program on multiple platforms using OOP. The real difference is in there implementation. Java is meant to be run on any platform when compiled (to bytecode) while C++ needs to be recompiled for each platform. What Java saves in recompilation time, it lacks in speed becuase the compilation needs to be "retranslated" on each platform.
__There are Java compilers out there that will make platform-specific executables. Using one of these would make any application faster.
__Unfortunately, I don''t know if these can compile Applets. Why compile an applet? Becuase using the applet class is the only natively supported way of using graphics in Java. Otherwise, your output would have to be ASCII (well, technically it''s unicode, but no OS I know of supports it.)
__The only other way to display graphics would be to use OpenGL or coding for each Graphics API for each platform.

#8 mason   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 12:45 PM

IMO Java isn''t suitable for "real" game projects, though it might be OK for small ones.

You might be able to swing it if your game doesn''t live and die by the framerate... i.e, a turn based strategy game or RPG... but in general I think C/C++ is the way to go.

Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios - home of Quaternion, 2000 GDC Indie Games Fest Finalist!
www.spin-studios.com

#9 joeG   Members   -  Reputation: 172

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 01:36 PM

Yeah, you all bring up some good points. I wouldn''t quit my day job to work on Java games, but I consider it a challenge that is worthy of taking up. Sure, Java games will be two years behind C/C++ games but there''s a lot of cool games that were made two years ago, that I wouldn''t mind playing in Java. Anyways (that last part didn''t come out real clear), just want to cast my vote with Java on being a viable platform for games. It''ll just take a little extra effort

#10 I-Shaolin   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 01:57 PM

If you are really interested in using Java, try going over to www.gamasutra.com. A while back, they had a few articles on game development using Java (including OpenGL). Just go to the features -> Programming section. Personally, I don''t use Java for games, but the articles on Gamasutra tend to be of a profressional quality and should be really helpful to your question.

#11 RPGElite   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 03:50 PM

I''ve made some simple games in Java (A pong game using graphics from Dragonball Z being the only interesting one...)
And I started work on a tactical RPG similar to Final Fantasy Tactics.
However, my hard drive crashed and I lost it all. I decided it was about time I learn DirectX anyway, so I''ve just recently finished Andre Lamothe''s book and I''m preparing to restart work on the game in Win32 code.

Java CAN be used to makes games (even 3D ones, no texture mapping however...). I''ll give you a book''s title which I own that was pretty good:
"The Black Art of Java Game Programming" (this book is sorely out of date, still using Java 1.0.2, but a lot of the ideas are good and transfer to Java 1.1 easily enough (I never learned Java 2...so I don''t know how easily they''d go to that.) It covers a few points about making a 3D game that uses flat shaded polygons and comes with all the source necessary to do so (and an example game using the 3D library).

So in conclusion : Yes, Java can be used to make games, but if you want to do anything on par with commercial games you will have to go to C++.

I''d like to make one note : Java is NOT as cross-platform as people think. My code that I had would not compile on Unix, because Java is still a very new technology and it has bugs (hell, check the JDC and you''ll see that the bug submission #s when you submit one are above 4,000,000!). Making a game in Pure Java is extremely difficult and often isn''t worth the effort. I mean, so what if your java game runs on linux or BeOS, how much of the market actually uses those and ONLY those operating systems? Enough to worry about? I don''t think so. Not yet anyway.


gameguru4@yahoo.com


#12 SiCrane   Moderators   -  Reputation: 9498

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Posted 08 January 2000 - 08:26 PM

I''d have to agree that the cross-platform operablility of Java is a myth. I''ve personally written a breakout applet that could cause seg-faults in some UNIX machines.

Java as a programming language isn''t a bad idea, just compile the program to native executables to get rid of the excessive cost of the virtual machine.

It is possible to program DirectX in Java. Don''t expect that to run on Linux though.




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