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School? I would not call it that way.


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#41 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1901

Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:20 PM

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle the issue of a professor being 'wrong' in the middle of a class. (And then there is the painfully annoying, but oh so required way.)


The wrong way is to tell them they're wrong, and doing so in the middle of the class in an overly smug and blatant fashion.

The right way is to begin a discussion about the topic, politely, and in a fashion that is as non-disruptive as possible. (Pointing out typos is as easy as asking "Wait, is that suppose to be X on line Y?". Offering the correct value depends on the professor in question. I've had one math prof who I assume deliberately writes the wrong values from time to time. At least I hope they do, otherwise I have no idea why they still have a job.)




Then there is the annoying, but required way. Once, and only once, during my round about path through university have I had a professor who was actually drummed out of their classes simply because they knew next to nothing about the subject, were unable to answer basic questions, and were unable to communicate during classes in any meaningful manner. Never did get a straight answer about how she managed to get the job. For some reason no one seems to enjoy talking about the professor in general.
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#42 Washu   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 5639

Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:23 PM

Then there is the annoying, but required way. Once, and only once, during my round about path through university have I had a professor who was actually drummed out of their classes simply because they knew next to nothing about the subject, were unable to answer basic questions, and were unable to communicate during classes in any meaningful manner. Never did get a straight answer about how she managed to get the job. For some reason no one seems to enjoy talking about the professor in general.

In most universities, teaching is not the primary occupation of professors.

Research is. They teach because it provides subsidies that fund their research.

A lot of professors can be extremely intelligent and yet have a very hard time teaching what they know. That doesn't necessarily mean the one your speaking about was such a case, but I've known a few.

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#43 Matias Goldberg   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3724

Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:50 AM

In most universities, teaching is not the primary occupation of professors.

Research is. They teach because it provides subsidies that fund their research.

Couldn't stop laughing so hard! I'd wish the teachers in the unis from my Country would be reading this. I'd dare to say here's the other way around. Or may be "most univiersities" is ambigous and vague. I don't know.

A lot of professors can be extremely intelligent and yet have a very hard time teaching what they know. That doesn't necessarily mean the one your speaking about was such a case, but I've known a few.

Agreed. Like I said two posts above, there all kinds of teachers.

#44 Aardvajk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6284

Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:47 AM

Any fool can learn to program. The important skill you need in real life is the ability to recognise when your ego is out of control. Without this skill, every other programmer you ever work with or for will be "wrong" and you won't last more than a month in any given job.

At work, I extend and maintain a system written by a guy who uses a lot of singletons, shared_ptr as an automatic replacement for all pointers, completely inconsistent variable naming conventions, absolutely no comments and regular reinvention of the wheel instead of using existing libraries.

But you know what? I'm sure he could cite a long list of criticisms of my work too. And he'd probably be right too. And I've learned a heck of a lot from him, despite the fact that there are aspects of his style I personally disagree with. And the software works and makes money.

School courses are as much about learning to play nice with others as they are learning the subject. I'd suggest you take advantage of this opportunity to learn that.

#45 Krohm   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3261

Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:03 AM

This thread is nonsense and while I can sympathize with OP's arguments, I am confident he should just suck it up. That's life.

#46 SteveDeFacto   Banned   -  Reputation: 109

Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:54 AM

Quit obsessing over her lack of l33t h4ck3r skills, and go do all the usual highschool things - sports, girlfriends, etc. You'll only regret it later if you don't.

I was home schooled my entire life and sat inside every day programming. I have no regrets other than not having a move diverse education but i have mostly made up for it now.

#47 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10450

Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:09 AM

I was home schooled my entire life and sat inside every day programming. I have no regrets other than not having a move diverse education but i have mostly made up for it now.

I too was home schooled, right up until university. On a sailboat in the Caribbean, no less.

I too spent plenty of time sitting inside programming, because that was my passion, but I also developed a very solid background in sports, literature, the arts, such fun pursuits as carpentry and house construction - you name it.

I too don't have any regrets from that portion of my life. But I have this recurring dream, of throwing in the towel on the rat race, quitting my job, skipping out on all the student loans, and returning to a mindless and carefree existence on a tropical beach...

I am pretty damn sure that dream will catch up with the rest of you, sometime short of retirement :wink:

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#48 jtagge75   Members   -  Reputation: 139

Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:23 AM

I was home schooled my entire life and sat inside every day programming. I have no regrets other than not having a move diverse education but i have mostly made up for it now.


When you are 70 and sitting around the bus stop with a bunch of other old farts hearing them recant tales of the "glory days" you might rethink that.

#49 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7695

Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:48 PM

I haven't read most of the thread yet, but I was caught off guard by this bullshit:



... and go do all the usual highschool things - sports, girlfriends, etc. You'll only regret it later if you don't.

Regret? Why regret?

Because you are only young once.

In a couple of years, you won't have half the time and energy you do now, to tryout a new sport, chase after that redhead, learn to fix motorcycles... But you will always have time to learn esoteric programming languages, because it's the kind of thing you can squeeze into half-hour breaks between class, work, and so-forth.

Some years ago, I decided to act more maturely on this site. That is why I cannot use the words I want to use, to describe how vehemently I disagree with this concept. I think you're doing an enormous disservice to him and anyone else who makes the poor decision to take your statement seriously.

#50 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10450

Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:47 PM

I think you're doing an enormous disservice to him and anyone else who makes the poor decision to take your statement seriously.

On what grounds? I'm not looking for an argument - I'm just curious to hear another opinion.

I'm not suggesting one should slack off and not work on school. But I am advocating striking a healthy work/life balance, and taking advantage of the (relatively) carefree nature of youth to live a little.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#51 Matias Goldberg   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3724

Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:50 PM

Some years ago, I decided to act more maturely on this site. That is why I cannot use the words I want to use, to describe how vehemently I disagree with this concept. I think you're doing an enormous disservice to him and anyone else who makes the poor decision to take your statement seriously.

That's a shame. Your sarcasm and "direct hit" sure hurt a lot, but was hilarous to read.
By the way, IMHO I think the best way to tell your disagreement I've seen so far in GD.Net was in this post. Check IADaveMark's post. What can possibly be better than that? :lol:

#52 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7695

Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:59 PM

Funny thing, I mellowed out just as soon as I finished up my degree and got out of school. Somehow I just wasn't so angry anymore -- maybe because I was no longer dealing with the kind of frustrations that led to this thread :wink: On the other hand I also made my transition to being properly part of the professional game-dev world, and at some point you have to grow up a bit there. It's one thing to act out if you're an established person, but at my age and experience I can't really keep that sort of reputation.

And Dave Mark is a great guy, hilarious sometimes.

#53 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1901

Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:29 AM


Then there is the annoying, but required way. Once, and only once, during my round about path through university have I had a professor who was actually drummed out of their classes simply because they knew next to nothing about the subject, were unable to answer basic questions, and were unable to communicate during classes in any meaningful manner. Never did get a straight answer about how she managed to get the job. For some reason no one seems to enjoy talking about the professor in general.

In most universities, teaching is not the primary occupation of professors.

Research is. They teach because it provides subsidies that fund their research.

A lot of professors can be extremely intelligent and yet have a very hard time teaching what they know. That doesn't necessarily mean the one your speaking about was such a case, but I've known a few.


Sadly, she was hired as an instructor to fill in courses that the researchers didn't have time to do and still be researchers. (Small university.)


And I'll be honest. Those "Know their stuff but can't teach" professors have been the ones that I learn the most from. For the most part, "Knows their stuff" and "knows nothing, but fumbling their way through anyway" tends to be very easy to spot.
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#54 Starnick   Members   -  Reputation: 1257

Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:09 PM



Then there is the annoying, but required way. Once, and only once, during my round about path through university have I had a professor who was actually drummed out of their classes simply because they knew next to nothing about the subject, were unable to answer basic questions, and were unable to communicate during classes in any meaningful manner. Never did get a straight answer about how she managed to get the job. For some reason no one seems to enjoy talking about the professor in general.

In most universities, teaching is not the primary occupation of professors.

Research is. They teach because it provides subsidies that fund their research.

A lot of professors can be extremely intelligent and yet have a very hard time teaching what they know. That doesn't necessarily mean the one your speaking about was such a case, but I've known a few.


Sadly, she was hired as an instructor to fill in courses that the researchers didn't have time to do and still be researchers. (Small university.)


And I'll be honest. Those "Know their stuff but can't teach" professors have been the ones that I learn the most from. For the most part, "Knows their stuff" and "knows nothing, but fumbling their way through anyway" tends to be very easy to spot.


"But she interviewed well!"

Luckily at my University, the professors were actually required to teach. In some of my non-engineering courses (thinking English and some of the lower-end math/science), I had a graduate student as the instructor. But all my engineering courses, there was a professor teaching and not some TA. Of course with the classes with a Lab component, it was the TA - except this one electrical engineering course I took, three professors taught it across several classes, and each Lab there were several TA's and at least one of the professors. Now that was a bit unique.

#55 speciesUnknown   Members   -  Reputation: 527

Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:52 AM

There is a right way to deal with a professor or other teacher who is "wrong".
1) First ensure that you are correct in your assertion that they are "wrong". In what way are they wrong? Is it a problem in this specific case? Is it something provable or a matter of opinion? Ask another student who is also experienced and might have an idea.
2) Talk to them after the lesson (do not try to embarrass them in front of everybody). Preferably email them.
3) If you aren't happy with the response, you have a choice. Is it something serious? Serious things are few and far between. If it is something serious, which I have yet to encounter, talk to the department head.

But do NOT get into an argument over something that is a matter of opinion. This is a waste of time.
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#56 SteveDeFacto   Banned   -  Reputation: 109

Posted 04 December 2011 - 03:05 AM


I was home schooled my entire life and sat inside every day programming. I have no regrets other than not having a move diverse education but i have mostly made up for it now.


When you are 70 and sitting around the bus stop with a bunch of other old farts hearing them recant tales of the "glory days" you might rethink that.


I won't be sitting at a bus stop with people who wasted their lifes when i am 70.

#57 jtagge75   Members   -  Reputation: 139

Posted 04 December 2011 - 01:54 PM



I was home schooled my entire life and sat inside every day programming. I have no regrets other than not having a move diverse education but i have mostly made up for it now.


When you are 70 and sitting around the bus stop with a bunch of other old farts hearing them recant tales of the "glory days" you might rethink that.


I won't be sitting at a bus stop with people who wasted their lifes when i am 70.


Way to have the post go completely over your head and show how completely arrogant you are at the same time. Good show chap.

#58 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:52 PM

I won't be sitting at a bus stop with people who wasted their lifes when i am 70.


To give an example of something more concrete, when I was in highschool we had a long weekend one week for some reason (not holiday related it was just a long weekend for some reason). I could have easily spent that time online. I probably could have taught myself how to program or whatever else I would have done and not regretted it at the time.

My mother asked me if I wanted to take a road trip to the black hills for the weekend as a spur of the moment thing. I learned to drive stick (I was 15 and a bit), went through 2 states I hadn't been to, saw some ridiculous things, and broke 100 mph. I guarantee you I'll remember that better than almost all of the time I've spent in front of a computer. I wouldn't have regretted sitting in front of the computer, but I definitely would have regretted missing out on the opportunity.

Similarly, also in highschool, a kid I knew asked if I wanted to try rugby. I knew nothing about it and probably would have weighed messing around on the computer higher at the time. I went to one practice to kind of throw him a bone, and after about a decade I've toured England/Scotland, competed as a D1 collegiate athlete, made some of the best friends I've ever made, been able to accept a pretty awesome internship, and have some absolutely ridiculous stories to look back on. Again, I wouldn't have regretted sitting in front of the computer instead at the time, but when I look back on what I got to do by trying something new I wouldn't trade it for anything. In fact, if I could have the choice between my current job and just the memories I have from that I would probably quit tomorrow.

Seize the opportunities you don't get every day or you won't have tomorrow; you won't be disappointed.

essentially the point being made is this:





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