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GameDev Chat Nazis


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#21 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27770

Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

I thought the whole point of IRC was to become an op so you can kick people with jerk-off reason messages?

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#22 mdwh   Members   -  Reputation: 822

Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:36 AM


But kicking someone the moment they infringe a banned topic is silly. The adult thing is to tell them "this topic isn't allowed, you will be kicked"... and ideally explain why.

A kick isn't akin to a ban - it's more like a warning, as there is nothing to stop you rejoining immediately (and many clients do so automatically). It seems like a fairly friendly way to tell someone they are being an ass, just as long as everyone knows the convention, which I guess is the issue in question here.

That was never my experience of IRC (including as an op). In my experience, a kick did mean don't come in, at least not straight away. Doing so might get a ban, especially with a client automatically rejoining - as phantom says.

And this is a problem - a kick without explaining why, or when or whether they're allowed back in, leaves the person not having a clue. If you are misusing "kick" to mean "stop talking about this", then the adult thing to do is to tell them, as d000hg says. I think exceptions would be if someone needed to be stopped immediately (e.g., they were flooding, or insulting people, or the topic was upsetting for some reason).

Though as I say, the topic can't have been banned, if it was allowed to talk about SOPA. If the issue was that he'd mentioned he has downloaded pirated material - well, he's already done that. A kick does nothing, other than being a punitive measure. Unless the op thought that admitting to having downloaded was such a serious thing, and that he might go on to elaborate more on his tales of deviant and unethical behaviours, and had to be kicked to stop him ASAP - but that's just getting silly :)
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#23 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1669

Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:26 PM

Honestly I know more than a few programmers who simply avoid Gamedev as a whole due to "Immature and childish Ops" they had seen in the IRC channel. I've been in a few times myself, but never seen anything too outrageous, but some policy review may be worth considering. I know they're not officially connected to the forums anymore, but a lot of people seem to be under the impression that the IRC channel represents the community as a whole.
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#24 Sirisian   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1640

Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:15 PM

Though as I say, the topic can't have been banned, if it was allowed to talk about SOPA.

Talking about SOPA is fine. We actually have a member by the name of Mona who happens to be a lawyer and we've discussed her recent blog articles about the subject. However, at no point during a SOPA discussion should the statement "I'm a pirate" need to be made. That's not what the discussion is about.

If the issue was that he'd mentioned he has downloaded pirated material - well, he's already done that. A kick does nothing, other than being a punitive measure.

You sound dense. So if someone posts pornography in a channel they shouldn't be kicked? It's the same reason the channel has never in the years I've been there allowed people to brag about being a pirate. That and the more obvious reason that piracy is frowned upon generally by programmers.

Honestly I know more than a few programmers who simply avoid Gamedev as a whole due to "Immature and childish Ops" they had seen in the IRC channel.

Interesting. I've talked to all the OPs for years and never seen such behavior except when Washu has kicked the whole channel. There aren't that many OPs. It's just Washu, Zao, MaulingMonkey, Oluseyi, Gachuk, Jpetrie, RedBeard, and sometimes April usually in the channel. The conversations are usually off-topic until someone brings up a topic then we have a general rule to keep the channel focused. Maybe I'm being overly defensive, but having been part of the channel for so long I'm kind of surprised that you know so many people that were turned off to the channel. I'm trying to think back when that could have happened, and I'm not really hitting on any key moments where someone could be turned away from the channel.

#25 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:31 PM

You sound dense. So if someone posts pornography in a channel they shouldn't be kicked? It's the same reason the channel has never in the years I've been there allowed people to brag about being a pirate. That and the more obvious reason that piracy is frowned upon generally by programmers.


It's not the same as posting pornography. If he posted links to wares/pirating materials maybe, but otherwise it's the same as saying, "I watch porn." I can't mentally justify that as being bannable. If anything it should be commendable for being honest.

#26 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 6798

Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:14 PM

Except he wasn't banned, he was kicked, which in the language of the community is a warning to avoid the topic from that angle in future...

#27 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 6798

Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:15 PM

There aren't that many OPs. It's just Washu, Zao, MaulingMonkey, Oluseyi, Gachuk, Jpetrie, RedBeard, and sometimes April usually in the channel.


I should turn up again sometime, see if my ops are still alive... :D

#28 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

Except he wasn't banned, he was kicked, which in the language of the community is a warning to avoid the topic from that angle in future...

kicked/banned. Saying you've pirated is hardly the same as posting pornography.

#29 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27770

Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:46 PM

If the issue was that he'd mentioned he has downloaded pirated material - well, he's already done that. A kick does nothing, other than being a punitive measure.

You sound dense. So if someone posts pornography in a channel they shouldn't be kicked?

You sound like a moron. So if someone kicks the president in the balls they should be given candy? Is that what you're saying? WTF man?


(i.e. the reply doesn't follow the quote - saying you watch porn is not posting pornography)

#30 Paul Franzen   Members   -  Reputation: 333

Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:27 PM

You sound dense.


You sound like a moron.


Ah, ever the intelligent debate...

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#31 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27770

Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:50 PM

...That was the point - the first line of my post is intentional nonsense to poke fun at the name-calling quote.

#32 Sirisian   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1640

Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

So if someone kicks the president in the balls they should be given candy? Is that what you're saying? WTF man?

You read my response wrong. mdwh said that punishments are not necessary if the infraction has already been committed. In his example he said that if someone brags about piracy then the infraction has already been committed so kicking "does nothing". My comment was that he was being naive in taking that stance since if it's applied to other similar infractions, such as linking porn, then it doesn't hold. All it shows me is that mdwh has a soft spot for piracy.

Since Hodgman thought I was giving an analogy earlier I'll give a way to somewhat prove mdwh's bias. Replace 1 TB of pirated material in the OPs statement with 1 TB of child porn, another illegal activity. Most people instantly would be shocked. However, both are illegal things to have on one's computer, but for some reason people in this thread are taking the viewpoint that piracy isn't as bad and thus not a kickable offense.

...That was the point - the first line of my post is intentional nonsense to poke fun at the name-calling quote.

I'm sorry to mdwh for saying "dense". I didn't interpret it directly as name calling when I typed it, but I see your point. His comment sounded like he'd support a channel that allowed people to brag about piracy. I have my own bias against piracy that kind of slipped.

#33 Yann L   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1794

Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:10 PM

Replace 1 TB of pirated material in the OPs statement with 1 TB of child porn, another illegal activity. Most people instantly would be shocked. However, both are illegal things to have on one's computer, but for some reason people in this thread are taking the viewpoint that piracy isn't as bad and thus not a kickable offense.

This is a very bad analogy. There is an entire universe of difference between music piracy and child pornography.


#34 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27770

Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:29 PM

Most people instantly would be shocked.

There's still a difference between admitting to being a law-breaker (in the context of discussing whether a law is being heavily enforced) and providing assistance for breaking a law. In that kind of discussion, it really shouldn't matter what kind of law you're discussing at all - you're discussing the law, not promoting ways to violate it.

N.B. I'm not saying the OP shouldn't have been kicked from IRC here - cliquey chat rooms can do what they want.

However, if there's a serious admission, like child abuse, then you probably shouldn't kick them in order to log as much info as possible, and should instead inform an admin to grab their IP and send the logs to the police Posted Image


I think what mdwh was saying isn't that a kick "does nothing" in regards to the IRC rule of not promoting piracy, but that it does nothing about the fact that the user in question has already committed the piracy. That is, that the IRC rule has not prevented any piracy in this case, and thus isn't it's enforcement/non-enforcement hasn't achieved anything.

#35 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 2954

Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:20 AM


There aren't that many OPs. It's just Washu, Zao, MaulingMonkey, Oluseyi, Gachuk, Jpetrie, RedBeard, and sometimes April usually in the channel.


I should turn up again sometime, see if my ops are still alive... Posted Image

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