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Opinion on World Chat?


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#21 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6166

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:40 PM

Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button
I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

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#22 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:12 AM


Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


I disagree.
The discussions where everyone is already of the same major conclusion are the discussions that DO lead somewhere.
Because then we all can discuss how to improve the major conclusion with many minor conclusions.

#23 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9044

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:16 AM

I disagree.
The discussions where everyone is already of the same major conclusion are the discussions that DO lead somewhere.
Because then we all can discuss how to improve the major conclusion with many minor conclusions.

But perhaps your major conclusion is faulty? This is where discussion with others which don't share your point of view can expose their own and explain why they think what you suggest isn't practical/doesn't work/could be altered to/etc...

Once you have a working concept then I completely agree with you, it is a waste of time to keep going back on that concept and trying to find something better, and it is better to actually work on polishing the concept you already have. But that's only valid if you actually something that works, which (seeing the number of people who disagree with you in this thread) is most likely not the case. You should thus open up and reconsider your own point of view - perhaps it is flawed. You are not always right (in fact, one is almost always wrong which is why forums such as gamedev exist). It's important to keep that in mind.

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#24 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:37 AM

I disagree.
The discussions where everyone is already of the same major conclusion are the discussions that DO lead somewhere.
Because then we all can discuss how to improve the major conclusion with many minor conclusions.

But perhaps your major conclusion is faulty? This is where discussion with others which don't share your point of view can expose their own and explain why they think what you suggest isn't practical/doesn't work/could be altered to/etc...

Once you have a working concept then I completely agree with you, it is a waste of time to keep going back on that concept and trying to find something better, and it is better to actually work on polishing the concept you already have. But that's only valid if you actually something that works, which (seeing the number of people who disagree with you in this thread) is most likely not the case. You should thus open up and reconsider your own point of view - perhaps it is flawed. You are not always right (in fact, one is almost always wrong which is why forums such as gamedev exist). It's important to keep that in mind.


This is something it's impossible to be wrong in because a can work with or without a chat.
And if you've seen the other thread "players don't know what they want" How do I know that you who are disagreeing with me know what you want?

And I know tons of people who are of my opinion, It's strange that most people on this forum is mostly of other opinion.

But since this forum isn't only for gamers but a lot of IT guys and people who don't even like games.. They might just be stuying game designing and looking at what majority of players are generally saying in games like World of Warcraft and what big studios likeblizzard have done in their games...
But it's such a stupid way of making game designs.. It's like you're studying to become a cook when you don't even enjoy making food and prefer just throwing in a frozen pizza in the micro wave when you get home.

And It's also very stupid to listen to WoW players because there were such a gigantic amount of players introduced to MMORPG's with WoW.. They've never played MMORPG's before.. maybe they've played counter strike before... or age of empires... maybe they've never played a multiplayer game.. and even a HUUUGE part of the players never even played games before.

#25 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9044

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

This is something it's impossible to be wrong in because a can work with or without a chat.

Depends what you mean by "wrong". Everything can "work" to some extent, the question is, how well?

And I know tons of people who are of my opinion, It's strange that most people on this forum is mostly of other opinion.

Well it's called diversity of opinion, if everyone had the same opinion about everything the world would be a boring place.

But since this forum isn't only for gamers but a lot of IT guys and people who don't even like games..

Well, that's where constructivity comes in, people who just hate for the sake of it will have a hard time explaining why they disagree.

But it's such a stupid way of making game designs.. It's like you're studying to become a cook when you don't even enjoy making food and prefer just throwing in a frozen pizza in the micro wave when you get home.

I don't understand the analogy here. I am pretty sure many people on this forum including this thread love playing games, making games, and have some to a lot of experience doing just that (playing and making games, that is). They know what they like and they know what their friends/people they've played or worked with/ like in a game. It's impossible to please everybody, so if you have a novel concept go ahead and try it out. Hell, no world chat would probably work somehow, but what people are trying to tell you is that world chat is there for a reason and that taking it away may have repercussions you hadn't forseen. Nobody is forcing you to listen to anybody's opinions, but when you ask for them you have to expect that some opinions will disagree with yours.

They might just be stuying game designing and looking at what majority of players are generally saying in games like World of Warcraft and what big studios likeblizzard have done in their games...

WoW works because it appeals to players. And world chat plays a huge part in that. If it wasn't possible to communicate to people via whisper or some other channel, it would be difficult to coordinate stuff and in general people would either get turned off or use some other means of communication via a third party application. Communication is fundamental to how humans work and game features pertaining to it can be MAJOR turn-offs if they are not done well. I know many people who basically use WoW as an online chat without actually playing the game. They just sit there and talk. Depends on your perspective but for Blizzard this is a major success, as these guys will be happy no matter what happens in the game, as long as the chatbox doesn't disappear.

Nobody is forcing you to follow Blizzard's recipe. You are free to try out new, exciting stuff. But perhaps it would be wise to search for people/games who have attempted something similar to what you are considering, and looking at the results. Depending on your goals it may not be what you wanted.

And It's also very stupid to listen to WoW players because there were such a gigantic amount of players introduced to MMORPG's with WoW.. They've never played MMORPG's before.. maybe they've played counter strike before... or age of empires... maybe they've never played a multiplayer game.. and even a HUUUGE part of the players never even played games before.

You don't "listen" to WoW players, the population you see on the various forums online makes up maybe 1% of the total amount of players. It hardly reflects the entire population of WoW. You simply cannot make conclusions like that.

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#26 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9044

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:04 AM

The bottom line is, if you are not ready to accept that people may disagree with you (provided they are constructive in their disagreement) and if you are not ready to take criticism for your ideas and concepts, then any constructive discussion is flat out impossible as it will result in absolutely nothing. If you want everybody to agree with you, then I agree with SimonForsman - make a blog and only allow positive feedback.

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#27 hunterrose12   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:04 PM

I think it's way better if players have to meet up with people to talk to them.
For example at the town center / bank etc.. Wherever there usually are a lot of playes.

Also forces players to have to go to the town center to yell out their wares.

I always appreciated Ultima Online for that. No world chat (that I can remember anyways) and in order to sell things, you had to go to the most populated cities and yell among everyone else yelling to peddle your wares. I loved how real it seemed. I remember people sitting around looking all poor and people would actually give them money because they were having a hard time selling their firewood they just cut down...hehehe

#28 Dwapook   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:59 PM



Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


I disagree.
The discussions where everyone is already of the same major conclusion are the discussions that DO lead somewhere.
Because then we all can discuss how to improve the major conclusion with many minor conclusions.


UHM..

Even if you're set on making a certain feature workable, opinions of why it doesn't work can help you to strengthen it.. You gotta start relying more on thinking and less on people agreeing with you.. I'd suggest going to your local library and picking up a book by Eward De Bono, I've heard they're really good at helping to develop thinking skills.. (The one I just started seems to be really helpful anyway)

#29 hunterrose12   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

I'm convinced that some of the dumbest inventions are the result of yes men agreeing because some big-wig had a "great idea", only for it to utterly fail when it launches.

Personally I think that conflict causes change. You should WANT people to disagree with you because it gives you a new perspective.

If you have a great idea stand by it. But consider being realistic too. Emotions can cloud our judgement. Consider Win-Win scenarios. Can you take the advice of others without compromising your vision?

#30 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4978

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

Personally I love world chat, unless its the kind which requires a consumable cash shop item for each post. I also love games which incorporate a messageboard into the game (Gaia Online is the most obvious example since you earn gold for posting and others can tip you gold for helpful replies, etc.). I'm not big on realism because I prefer fantasy games with monsters and magic anyway. I absolutely hate player shops/lack of an automated global marketplace, which often philosophically go together with lack of world chat.

Phone game idea available free to someone who will develop it (Alphadoku game - the only existing phone game of this type is both for windows phone only and awful. PM for details.)


I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.


#31 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4978

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:25 PM


Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


Yeah and in addition to that you're not supposed to downrate posts here because you disagree with them. The way our rating system is intended to work is that people downrate posts that are hostile, factually wrong, or otherwise indicate that the person who wrote them isn't being a good community member. You are supposed to rate up posts that are insightful, helpful, or make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, not just ones you agree with.

Phone game idea available free to someone who will develop it (Alphadoku game - the only existing phone game of this type is both for windows phone only and awful. PM for details.)


I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.


#32 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:31 PM



Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


Yeah and in addition to that you're not supposed to downrate posts here because you disagree with them. The way our rating system is intended to work is that people downrate posts that are hostile, factually wrong, or otherwise indicate that the person who wrote them isn't being a good community member. You are supposed to rate up posts that are insightful, helpful, or make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, not just ones you agree with.


Well, The one who made the system isn't a good game designer... because if you only want something to be intended for a specific thing then there can not be any other alternatives... you must create systems and features that are intended for people who can not be trusted.

#33 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9044

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:39 PM

Well, The one who made the system isn't a good game designer... because if you only want something to be intended for a specific thing then there can not be any other alternatives... you must create systems and features that are intended for people who can not be trusted.

Law of large numbers. Even if some dude comes along and downrates/upvotes everything at random, it will be quickly averaged out to zero by the contributions of the rest of the community. It would take a large number of people to actually have significant impact on the rating system, and if that happens (which is not often, I'd wager), the forum can simply rollback all the ratings. I don't see any obvious flaw with this system. Clearly it is working well as I actually see people using the rating button with measure and intelligence.

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#34 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4978

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:16 PM




Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


Yeah and in addition to that you're not supposed to downrate posts here because you disagree with them. The way our rating system is intended to work is that people downrate posts that are hostile, factually wrong, or otherwise indicate that the person who wrote them isn't being a good community member. You are supposed to rate up posts that are insightful, helpful, or make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, not just ones you agree with.


Well, The one who made the system isn't a good game designer... because if you only want something to be intended for a specific thing then there can not be any other alternatives... you must create systems and features that are intended for people who can not be trusted.

Fortunately this forum is not a game, it's an intellectual community, and we can and should ban people who aren't good community members.

Phone game idea available free to someone who will develop it (Alphadoku game - the only existing phone game of this type is both for windows phone only and awful. PM for details.)


I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.


#35 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6166

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:48 PM



Next time I'm making a thread I'll make sure to say I'm only interested in people with same opinion.


This is a discussion forum, discussions where everyone agrees with eachother aren't really discussions and don't really lead to anything, If you want a place to post your opinions without having them challenged i'd recommend getting a blog, disable comments and add a facebook "like" button


Yeah and in addition to that you're not supposed to downrate posts here because you disagree with them. The way our rating system is intended to work is that people downrate posts that are hostile, factually wrong, or otherwise indicate that the person who wrote them isn't being a good community member. You are supposed to rate up posts that are insightful, helpful, or make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, not just ones you agree with.


Personally i rate posts towards the rating i think they deserve, not sure if thats how it is meant to be used but personally i don't think that the rating a good or bad post gets should depend on the popularity of the thread or on the quality of other posts by the same poster).
Also, i've only downrated one post in this thread and uprated 4, 3 of the posts i rated up was made by the same poster as the post i rated down, (I rated those up because i didn't think they were bad enough to get a negative rating).

As far as worldchat goes it really depends for me, I don't mind global channels as long as :
* they are optional to participate in.
* they are moderated
I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#36 fasttrackjack   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

The world chat definitely gives a sense that you're part of a much larger community. I've played MMO's where the world chat is disabled, and they just seem empty in comparison.
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