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openGL ES phone


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#1 boboS   Members   -  Reputation: 149

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

Hello.
I was thinking to buy a new phone. I dont have much experience in 3D on phones but I'm wondering on what phone I can develop openGL ES applications and be able to test it without signed code or any other trouble. I dont want to sell just be able to test fast my application on the phone without any restrictions. The phone should be around 250$.
Also, HTC as fasr as I know has Windows Mobile so I guess it has DirectX. Can I develop DirectX applications in C++ on it ? Same question about exporting the application on phone restrictions.
Thanks.

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#2 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5965

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Any android phone should allow you to install applications signed with your own certificates (Which you can generate yourself using the SDK, the eclipse plugin will sign the code automatically for you if you wish when you create the apk).

IIRC WP7 phones require .Net, a while back only C# was supported but i think VB.Net and C++/CLI (probably not standard C++ though) works now aswell, I don't think you can just install stuff as you please on WP though, (I might be wrong, Microsoft should have all the relevant info though)
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#3 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5261

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:03 AM

Aggggggggeeees ago, I put together this comparision guide for smartphone specs/abilities. Every single phone on that list supports OpenGL ES 1.x at the very least, most would support 2.0.


Pretty much every "smart" phone you buy today will have GL ES 2.0 support. There are a few things to be aware of


a) Windows Mobile has ZERO native code support. So if you want to code OpenGL ES directly, you are out of luck. It's XNA or nothing.

b) Apple requires you to be a registered developer ( 99$ a year ) to deploy to device. There are ways around it if you root your phone, just realize out of the box, if you want to deploy to an actual device, with iOS you've got to pay. That said, their Simulator is quite fast and is actually capable of demonstrating GPU performance. However, it's Apple only, so no Windows development, unless you use a tool like Marmalade or DragonFire. The biggest problem with the simulator is it doesn't effectively simulate the CPU, so if your code is CPU constrained, you wont notice until you run on an actual device ( well, unless your computer stinks. )

c) Android is the easiest to deploy your app to. No money involved, but your phone, go to the settings and turn on USB debugging, download the adb driver and you are off to the races. Also Android development is easily accomplished on Mac, Windows or Linux. Now the flipside, their emulator ( note, not simulator, there is a difference ) is a festering pile of s____, er, it sucks, bad. Also working in their native SDK, around all the bugs, crap documentation, etc... almost turned me into an alcoholic. Some people swear by Eclipse, I swear at it, but sadly NetBeans support just isn't there 100%.


All three platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, but in your case, Android is certainly the right fit. Well, unless of course paying 100$ a year aint a big deal to you, then it's a wash between iOS and Android. WinPhone7 is sadly off the list for now. ( Which is a shame, as I was going to buy a Lumia 900, but I lost faith in the viability of the platform in the face on Win8 and signed a contract for a Samsung Galaxy Note to replace my aging Xperia ).


Now, if you actually wanted to make money, iOS all the way. Although the more I hear, the worse App discovery is getting on App Store, and the casual audience iOS attracted are more fickle about their selections, meaning if you are profiled/spotlighted, you can make a ton, but if you aren't, nobody will find your app at all.

#4 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5965

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Aggggggggeeees ago, I put together this comparision guide for smartphone specs/abilities. Every single phone on that list supports OpenGL ES 1.x at the very least, most would support 2.0.


Pretty much every "smart" phone you buy today will have GL ES 2.0 support. There are a few things to be aware of


a) Windows Mobile has ZERO native code support. So if you want to code OpenGL ES directly, you are out of luck. It's XNA or nothing.

b) Apple requires you to be a registered developer ( 99$ a year ) to deploy to device. There are ways around it if you root your phone, just realize out of the box, if you want to deploy to an actual device, with iOS you've got to pay. That said, their Simulator is quite fast and is actually capable of demonstrating GPU performance. However, it's Apple only, so no Windows development, unless you use a tool like Marmalade or DragonFire. The biggest problem with the simulator is it doesn't effectively simulate the CPU, so if your code is CPU constrained, you wont notice until you run on an actual device ( well, unless your computer stinks. )

c) Android is the easiest to deploy your app to. No money involved, but your phone, go to the settings and turn on USB debugging, download the adb driver and you are off to the races. Also Android development is easily accomplished on Mac, Windows or Linux. Now the flipside, their emulator ( note, not simulator, there is a difference ) is a festering pile of s____, er, it sucks, bad. Also working in their native SDK, around all the bugs, crap documentation, etc... almost turned me into an alcoholic. Some people swear by Eclipse, I swear at it, but sadly NetBeans support just isn't there 100%.


All three platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, but in your case, Android is certainly the right fit. Well, unless of course paying 100$ a year aint a big deal to you, then it's a wash between iOS and Android. WinPhone7 is sadly off the list for now. ( Which is a shame, as I was going to buy a Lumia 900, but I lost faith in the viability of the platform in the face on Win8 and signed a contract for a Samsung Galaxy Note to replace my aging Xperia ).


Now, if you actually wanted to make money, iOS all the way. Although the more I hear, the worse App discovery is getting on App Store, and the casual audience iOS attracted are more fickle about their selections, meaning if you are profiled/spotlighted, you can make a ton, but if you aren't, nobody will find your app at all.


It is kinda annoying that Nokia is ditching Symbian and Meego, developing apps using C++ and QT was pretty straightforward and since dev certificates are free they're still good options if you just want to play around. (Neither platform is likely to get enough marketshare to be a viable target from a business point of view though as Nokia is going with WP now)
I really don't understand where Microsoft is going with WP7, They need to attract developers but doesn't seem to do anything to make the platform more attractive to develop for. (The tools are good but its just not profitable, Why charge a yearly fee for app deployment and take 30% of the revenue just like your competitor when you have nowhere near their marketshare ?)
I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#5 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5261

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:07 AM


Aggggggggeeees ago, I put together this comparision guide for smartphone specs/abilities. Every single phone on that list supports OpenGL ES 1.x at the very least, most would support 2.0.


Pretty much every "smart" phone you buy today will have GL ES 2.0 support. There are a few things to be aware of


a) Windows Mobile has ZERO native code support. So if you want to code OpenGL ES directly, you are out of luck. It's XNA or nothing.

b) Apple requires you to be a registered developer ( 99$ a year ) to deploy to device. There are ways around it if you root your phone, just realize out of the box, if you want to deploy to an actual device, with iOS you've got to pay. That said, their Simulator is quite fast and is actually capable of demonstrating GPU performance. However, it's Apple only, so no Windows development, unless you use a tool like Marmalade or DragonFire. The biggest problem with the simulator is it doesn't effectively simulate the CPU, so if your code is CPU constrained, you wont notice until you run on an actual device ( well, unless your computer stinks. )

c) Android is the easiest to deploy your app to. No money involved, but your phone, go to the settings and turn on USB debugging, download the adb driver and you are off to the races. Also Android development is easily accomplished on Mac, Windows or Linux. Now the flipside, their emulator ( note, not simulator, there is a difference ) is a festering pile of s____, er, it sucks, bad. Also working in their native SDK, around all the bugs, crap documentation, etc... almost turned me into an alcoholic. Some people swear by Eclipse, I swear at it, but sadly NetBeans support just isn't there 100%.


All three platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, but in your case, Android is certainly the right fit. Well, unless of course paying 100$ a year aint a big deal to you, then it's a wash between iOS and Android. WinPhone7 is sadly off the list for now. ( Which is a shame, as I was going to buy a Lumia 900, but I lost faith in the viability of the platform in the face on Win8 and signed a contract for a Samsung Galaxy Note to replace my aging Xperia ).


Now, if you actually wanted to make money, iOS all the way. Although the more I hear, the worse App discovery is getting on App Store, and the casual audience iOS attracted are more fickle about their selections, meaning if you are profiled/spotlighted, you can make a ton, but if you aren't, nobody will find your app at all.


It is kinda annoying that Nokia is ditching Symbian and Meego, developing apps using C++ and QT was pretty straightforward and since dev certificates are free they're still good options if you just want to play around. (Neither platform is likely to get enough marketshare to be a viable target from a business point of view though as Nokia is going with WP now)
I really don't understand where Microsoft is going with WP7, They need to attract developers but doesn't seem to do anything to make the platform more attractive to develop for. (The tools are good but its just not profitable, Why charge a yearly fee for app deployment and take 30% of the revenue just like your competitor when you have nowhere near their marketshare ?)


See, I absolutely love Nokia hardware, although it rarely came this side of the pond. I had a Nokia smartphone before phones where smart ( The P800 ). So far as handsets go, Nokia absolutely rocks. I was excited for the Lumia 900, its about as sexy as a slab of plastic and glass can get. That said, Microsoft are ruining it. The killer part is, as far as developer support goes, they are leagues better than Apple or Google. That they haven't leveraged this to their advantage, but instead, somehow made it a disadvantage ( by not offering developer freedom, like that have well... forever ).

See thats the fundamental problem with Microsoft, it is a directionless company that's been running in two directions. I wrote about it a while back but that was more about the death of XNA, as discussed by promit on his blog. Truth is, it's the same root cause.

See, there was a civil war at Microsoft, especially when it came to the company direction. Steve Ballmer seems to be the definition of stupidity, leading the guiding future of Microsoft in two sets of hands, Steven Sinofsky and J Allard. Most people will recognize the name J Allard as the father of the XBox. Steven Sinofsky is a little less known, but ultimately proved the victor. His primary claim to fame was being the guy that "saved Windows" by turning the Windows Vista flop into the Windows 7 success story.

So basically you had two competing powers in the company, one driven by consumer experience championing things like Xbox, Zune, their ill-fated tablet Courier tablet and even XNA. At the time too, he was leading up Windows Phone too, which is obviously in it's pedegree as basically Zune 2:Phone edition. Sinofsky on the other hand came up through the ranks of Microsoft's more traditional cash cows, he was previously in charge of Office, until Vista failed on the market, where he was put in charge of the operating system division. Basically these two people were the two most important people at Microsoft, they went head to head and... SInofsky won.


Exit J Allard, and almost all of his team. Leaving the Windows Phone project a red-headed stepchild without a champion.

All of Microsoft know it's important, but nobody is really behind it... except as an extension to Windows 8. Which makes sense, as the guy calling the shots is in charge of that division. This is also why XNA is as good as dead ( imho ), theres nobody championing it. It was a natural fit for Metro and is the API of choice for WinPhone 7, but Windows 8 is the future and frankly in that regard XNA's future is much less bright.


THat ultimately is why I wouldn't touch a Win Phone 7 phone with a 10 foot pole right now, the writing is on the wall, the company bet the farm on Windows 8. Granted, they threw away a couple billion dollars doing so ( in the form of WinPhone 7x ), but for a company that makes 5+ bil a quarter profit and can piss away nearly 10b on Skype, whats a few billion here and there?


Imagine the world where Allard won? If Microsoft had released a dual screen tablet at the same time as the iPad?


Sorry for the downer post, but if you are trying to figure out what exactly has been happening at Microsoft, here is some logic to explain their complete lack of logic. It's sad, I like Microsofts consumer products, but frankly, they just didn't have the marketing power to make them work ( Microsoft just can't do cool like Apple does it seems ), so perhaps having Allard out isn't terrible for the company as a whole.


( Full disclosure I suppose, I am a Microsoft shareholder, and have friends within the company )




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