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#61 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 17712

Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:42 PM

Don't forget everyone's reputation is now ticking upwards steadily (albeit) slowly. The formula should be chosen to match the kind of rep we're GOING to see rather than what people already have now. I'd say go ahead and target that MUCH higher rep: the few users who have it have really earned it, and it's now inevitable that others will also eventually reach those scores.

It should take time and effort to earn increased influence.

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#62 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 18099

Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:07 PM

Don't forget everyone's reputation is now ticking upwards steadily (albeit) slowly. The formula should be chosen to match the kind of rep we're GOING to see rather than what people already have now. I'd say go ahead and target that MUCH higher rep: the few users who have it have really earned it, and it's now inevitable that others will also eventually reach those scores.

Because even users who aren't knowledgable in a subject will eventually have 2k+ and 3k+ ratings in the Scholar category, do you think there will be a problem of everyone having to keep adjusting our mental thresholds for "knowledgeable users", because they steadily tick upwards regardless of whether they are knowledgeable or not?

It should take time and effort to earn increased influence.

Agreed. But don't forget the time-honored rule of game-development: No matter how long the developer will think it'll take, players will reach it much faster.

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#63 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:50 PM

<br /> Because even users who aren't knowledgable in a subject will eventually have 2k+ and 3k+ ratings in the Scholar category, do you think there will be a problem of everyone having to keep adjusting our mental thresholds for "knowledgeable users", because they steadily tick upwards regardless of whether they are knowledgeable or not?<br />


Well, to be fair, the only wait to increase your scholar points directly will be to "follow" a particular topic. This is more to encourage the designation of worthwhile topics than anything.. and there will always be the potential for abuse. BUT, look at it from a different angle in that we should all be trying to produce a lot more open knowledge for each other. We all have a ton of skills that could help others and we have a huge potential as a community talent pool to create some really useful stuff (articles, blogs, topics, answers, etc)



#64 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:58 PM

As a side comment, I think one of the things that bothers me still is when people really take a lot of time to help another user and they don't get a thanks/upvote/etc. How do you change that mentality and make courtesy more important? I know this is the Internet and all but the best I could come up with is by giving people a point just for giving out reputation points. Aside from that we need to really experience a culture shift here.. a new renessaince where people do more to contribute game development information.

One of the next stages of this reputation system is going to be how articles are handled.. we're really going to be looking for people to take pieces of code that they have written and share explanations of how it works with other people. When I originally developed gameprog.com back in 1997 one of the things I strived for is platform-agnostic, language-agnostic techniques for game programmers (ie. algorithms, patterns, etc)

It's also pretty simple to build an article around a piece of code.. and most of us all have some gem pieces of code that we have tucked away on our hard drives. As long as people aren't too afraid to share we have some great potential in this area.

#65 BronzeBeard   Members   -  Reputation: 160

Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:05 PM

Personally I think the new system is a bit... horrible....
At a quick glance almost everyone in this thread has a higher reputation than Tom Sloper. Which is a bit wrong if you ask me. I don't want to have to look up graphs and charts for every member to figure out if they have sage advice or not.

If you want "points" for "participation" and crap; add another column in your table for "XP". Make a little forum RPG out of it. How you have it now you can't tell who is respected member of the community and who is just an average know nothing Joe.

Just my two bytes...

Edited by BronzeBeard, 23 May 2012 - 09:11 PM.


#66 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:21 PM

At a quick glance almost everyone in this thread has a higher reputation than Tom Sloper. Which is a bit wrong if you ask me. I don't want to have to look up graphs and charts for every member to figure out if they have sage advice or not.


And for what reason do you consider their points not earned? Tom will certainly accumulate points faster than most people anyway. I'd doubt his sage advice doesn't cause his reputation to skyrocket quickly. Remember, this system is brand new..

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 23 May 2012 - 09:24 PM.


#67 BronzeBeard   Members   -  Reputation: 160

Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:39 PM


At a quick glance almost everyone in this thread has a higher reputation than Tom Sloper. Which is a bit wrong if you ask me. I don't want to have to look up graphs and charts for every member to figure out if they have sage advice or not.


And for what reason do you consider their points not earned? Tom will certainly accumulate points faster than most people anyway. I'd doubt his sage advice doesn't cause his reputation to skyrocket quickly. Remember, this system is brand new..


Most of the arguments I would make have already been brought up in this thread so I won't bog you down with rehashing them. I understand the system is brand new, but if we're going to keep it there needs to be a quick way to see where all these superfluous points come from without having to go through a person's profile.

You've probably already have a ticket for this or something similar, but I think you should break it down rather than just displaying a total reputation. Because personally I don't care if the person "participates" or authors blogs, I only care about the "Scholar" category as you have it.

Posted Image Don't take my feedback personally Posted Image

Edited by BronzeBeard, 23 May 2012 - 09:41 PM.


#68 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

Most of the arguments I would make have already been brought up in this thread so I won't bog you down with rehashing them. I understand the system is brand new, but if we're going to keep it there needs to be a quick way to see where all these superfluous points come from without having to go through a person's profile.


I get that. I would just take a different stance that the other points are superfluous.. which is perfectly fine that you disagree. I do want to be able to come up with a simple rep tag that shows each of the four categories in a compact format though so hopefully that will address your concerns.

#69 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:34 PM

We just can't pick which category(s) we want to show?

For example: If I want Scholar and Author points shown, I'd just check those two categories. Then my points would show and there would be two color-coded thin bars under the score to show which categories they came from. Blue = scholar, Orange = Author.

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#70 Dragonsoulj   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2027

Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:16 AM

Why not give a small user setting with 5 checkboxes. 1-4 are for the categories you want to care about? The 5th is whether you want a total, or individual breakdown. Then instead of seeing "Reputation: 999" you see "Reputation: 111 222 333 444" or "Reputation: 555".

#71 TheUnbeliever   Members   -  Reputation: 961

Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

What about keeping the numerical representation an aggregate, but displaying the breakdown as a small, minimalist (sparkline-like) bar chart alongside? (My tuppenceworth: I think the new system is far too complex to bother learning, so it's not going to nudge my behaviour in any direction.)
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#72 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 18099

Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:33 AM

For example: If I want Scholar and Author points shown, I'd just check those two categories. Then my points would show and there would be two color-coded thin bars under the score to show which categories they came from. Blue = scholar, Orange = Author.

So I have to remember, "High orange numbers in a technical thread mean nothing. High blue numbers mean something."

Why not just show only the number that corresponds to the forum? In the lounge, you show participation points, in For Beginners, General Programming, and etc... you show those points.
Or better yet, show all four points colored, but have the points that "belong" to that sub-forum be a slightly larger font.

Example:
Posted Image

And if you can also show only the points received from a specific sub-forum, show that as well. In my opinion, it'll provide much better "at a glance" knowledge, and be more accurate at who is knowledgeable.

Posted Image

I may have 500 points in technical 'scholar'ly know-how, from helping out with C++ questions in For Beginners and General Programming, or SDL and SFML api questions, but that Scholar rating is just misleading if I'm talking about Artificial Intelligence or Direct X, which is why in the Direct X forum, you should also show Direct X subforum specific points (that contribute to Scholar points, but shown separated out when in that forum).

Edited by Servant of the Lord, 24 May 2012 - 12:17 PM.

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#73 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Remembering which color goes with what category is not hard. Especially since repetition will have you remember it anyway. Plus someone could always hover over the bar which would produce a tooltip that says what category that color belongs to.

With that said, I actually like your idea. Admittedly, it's alot more easy to see. However, I believe Michael (IIRC) said he wanted to show the info in a compact way. Hence, my suggestion.

Since you can already see what thread your points came from it shouldn't be too hard to aggregate and categorize the points, as you, me, or Dragonsoulj suggested.
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#74 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:00 PM

Hey, this is a game development site isnt it? Coming up next.. every person will get an avatar character that will represent them. You first choose the character and customize, then equip the character by buying upgrades in a character store using the points you have available in the different categories. Participation points would buy different things than scholar points.. ;)

Equip your barbarian avatar with the ban hammer (moderator) and a pet lounge lizard.. (kidding of course!!)

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 24 May 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#75 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2706

Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:13 PM

Equip your barbarian avatar with the ban hammer (moderator) and a pet lounge lizard.. (kidding of course!!)


Well one supposes given a barbarian's (supposed) difficulty with counting that we could utilise graphics to demonstrate expertise in the relevant forum. Examples:
  • Barbarian hitting own head with hammer = non-expert in relevant forum.
  • Barbarian hitting Lounge lizard = moderating activity taking place.
  • Barbarian standing on pile of skulls = I am good enough to help you.
etc. etc.

--------------------------

It may not have been said but I for one am liking the rollout of the reputation system (ignoring the isolated bugs) so far and am interested in how it all pans out esp. what measures are/are not implemented with regard this thread's responses by so many parties.

One aspect I think some of us keep forgetting is that our ability to upvote/downvote posts is the most immediate and clearly identifiable way of showing a thread's response as valuable/helpful or not. If I see someone with a decent rep having a post that has been downchecked a number of times then should I respect the person for sage advice given their rep number (regardless of how broken down it is into category/forum etc) and ignore that the post was downchecked. Anyone can have a brain-fart and make an error or give bad advice and given the english skills of some of the thread's originators it is not surprising misinterpretation happens.


Barbarian draws cave painting = Author of this article.

Edited by Stormynature, 24 May 2012 - 04:37 PM.


#76 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

Hey, this is a game development site isnt it? Coming up next.. every person will get an avatar character that will represent them. You first choose the character and customize, then equip the character by buying upgrades in a character store using the points you have available in the different categories. Participation points would buy different things than scholar points.. ;)

Equip your barbarian avatar with the ban hammer (moderator) and a pet lounge lizard.. (kidding of course!!)


So when one buys things with their reputation points.... they don't lose those points. Do they? :( Or does your points unlock new equipment for you to get? :)

Also, if we have avatars with equipment, do we also get (RPG-like) stats? Leveling-up stats? Avatar fighting arenas?
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#77 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:25 PM

<br /> So when one buys things with their reputation points.... they don't lose those points. Do they? :( Or does your points unlock new equipment for you to get? :)<br />


Well as long as we are going down this path.. let's just say it's like allocating skill points. If you unequip something then you can get those points back.

lol.. gdnet avatar fighting? haha

#78 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:53 PM

<br /> So when one buys things with their reputation points.... they don't lose those points. Do they? Posted Image Or does your points unlock new equipment for you to get? Posted Image<br />


Well as long as we are going down this path.. let's just say it's like allocating skill points. If you unequip something then you can get those points back.

Hmm, I'm not sure I like that. My rep suffers if I have an avatar. No sir, don't like.

lol.. gdnet avatar fighting? haha

I iz sad and confused. We're a game dev site and a game-idea gets a "haha, noob" response. :(
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#79 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5164

Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:02 PM

<br /> I iz sad and confused. We're a game dev site and a game-idea gets a "haha, noob" response. :( <br />


I was just thinking out loud when I mentioned the equipable avatars.. it wasn't something we had planned but sounded like a fun idea. When I mentioned anything it was more just mentioning hypothetical ways it might work. I thought the idea of fighting avatars sounded fun. =)

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 24 May 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#80 Cornstalks   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6974

Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:49 PM

<br /> I iz sad and confused. We're a game dev site and a game-idea gets a "haha, noob" response. Posted Image <br />


I was just thinking out loud when I mentioned the equipable avatars.. it wasn't something we had planned but sounded like a fun idea. When I mentioned anything it was more just mentioning hypothetical ways it might work. I thought the idea of fighting avatars sounded fun. =)

<tangent>If zer0wolf's 72 hour game competition has the theme of "GameDev.net" I know exactly what I'm doing... complete with ban hammers, floorcaek, the secret EAT ROPE cheat, and characters like the uber-fast SiCrane, unfairly over-powerful Washu with a level over 9000, the drunken owl, and others. There would be two game modes: campaign where you have to fend off football spammers while guiding the n00bie through the C++ minefield, and arcade where you have to finish the MP3 beating compression algorithm so that you can get back to hearing the sound in your HTML hockey MMO...</tangent>

On a less tangential note, I really like the things Servant of the Lord and Alpha_ProgDes have mentioned. It does seem like a lot of information to take in though, and separating the categories defeats the purpose of the +100 rep people get for joining GD (if they have 100 showing in participation, and get downvoted in a technical forum, they'd still have 100 -1 0 0 showing, and you might as well not even do the +100 in the first place).

I thought about showing "Reputation: 415 (724 total)" (where 415 is the relevant rep, and 724 is the total rep, and a mouse-over would show the rep in each category), but a new guy could still easily have "Reputation: -1 (105)" in a technical forum, which would again defeat the purpose of the initial +100 rep.

Edited by Cornstalks, 24 May 2012 - 08:50 PM.

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