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Help for a young programmer?


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#1 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

I've been learning a lot of new things recently, but I still have a few questions that I need to ask. I plan to be a computer scientist with a hobby of game development. My goal is to get good at mathematics, get good at programming, and hopefully one day go to M.I.T.
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1. Should I study mathematics before I study programming? I was recently haveing a conversation with a very intelliegent person and he told me that I should study mathematics atleast up to calculus before I get into programming. I'm now studying algebra over the summer, since I will be put in algebra next year in eighth grade, so I just want to know what your opinions are....on whether I should focus on mathematics before I learn programming. I plan to be a computer scientist when I grow up, but I would really love game development as a hobby. Heres my list of mathematics that I plan on studying if it matters....http://www.nextgenup...rogramming.html

2. What do I need to know to know if I wanted to build my own gaming device like the ps3? Do I need to know a lot about engineering...and does programing need regarding the game engine it runs on....in other words is programming needed for the hardware or is that engineering?

3. (This sort of relates to my last question) What do I need to know to create my own game engine? I hear theres different programming languages that are used for 3d graphics...I think someone told me SDL and SFML, but could someone explain a bit more?
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I plan to study these

----MATH----
Basic Math * // Already completed the ones in dark blue
Pre Algebra*

Algebra 1 // Im learning this next year in 8th grade, but plan to learn it over this summer

Geometry // I also plan on learning the subjects that are purple
Algebra 2
Trigonometry
Precalculus
Calculus 1
Calculus 2
Calculus 3

Computaion Theory

Real Analysis // The subjects in red I am unsure of https://www.nextgenu...conConfused.gif, but am also a bit curious about
Complex Analysis
Abstract Algebra
Point-Set Topology
Set Theory
Logic
Differential Equations
Number Theory
Measure Theory

Category Theory

----PRORAMMING----
C#
C++
Python
Perl
Assembly....
Then I plan on learning thing like java and some web development languages.

----COMPUTER HARDWARE ENGINEERING----
Still trying to figure out what I exactly need to study in this topic. I ordered a supposedly decent book, but I don't think it will help me very much since I don't know exactly what I need to study on the topic....The book only cost me $4....I got it REALLY cheap, but money isn't what i'm worried about. I just want to learn everything correctly and not get lost in something just because I bought a book that wasn't what I was looking for or because I got the wrong information. Computer hardware engineering is the only topic left that I need to buy books on to continue my research on computers this summer. At the moment i'm gathering a collection of books I plan to study off of, but like I said I need more info on computer hardware engineering to buy the books I need and continue my studies. I know you said that I should learn each thing a bit as a time as I go on...thats what i'm doing, but i'm planning ahead of time. I like to plan ahead of time so I know what I need to work on in oreder and I stick to my original plan.
........I also plan on learning web development libraries, but those are the main programming libraries I want to focus on.

Edited by Cdunn-1999, 30 May 2012 - 03:12 PM.


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#2 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 22205

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:29 PM

Moving to Breaking In. Please read the Forum FAQs since they answer several of those questions in depth.

1) You should study them at the same time. See the Forum FAQs section 3.

2) If you want to make hardware you study computer engineering. You do not need any of those skills to be a game programmer. See the Forum FAQs section 1.

3) Choosing in the list I suggest you start with C#. Include C++ in your studies at school or on the side before college. Don't learn C unless you need to; it is a useful language but the mindset is different than the current C#/C++ skill set. Effective C programmers must think differently than effective C++/C# programmers and it is difficult to switch between them (I know from experience). Finally, any assembly language is something you will learn on the side when you need it. Instead you should pick up Python or Perl since they would be far more useful.

Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I write about assorted stuff.


#3 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:02 AM

If you want to make hardware you study computer engineering. You do not need any of those skills to be a game programmer. See the Forum FAQs section 1.
\


Thank you...Could you possibly recommend me any books on computer hardware engineering?

#4 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 22205

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:09 AM


If you want to make hardware you study computer engineering. You do not need any of those skills to be a game programmer. See the Forum FAQs section 1.
\


Thank you...Could you possibly recommend me any books on computer hardware engineering?

That is the domain of transistors, resistors, capacitors, and so on. That path will not make you a game programmer. If you did work on those systems in a game console it would be only for a very limited function; you would be one member of a team that works on the audio subsystem of the console.

That being said, I wouldn't start down that route with a college book. You are better off starting with a "My First Microcontroller" style project book that comes with a bunch of components. You can get them at Fry's, or Radio Shack, or other stores that sell electronic components; you may have to go through their online sites to pick them up. There will be projects like making a single blinking light, or a single buzzing noise.

Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I write about assorted stuff.


#5 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:57 AM

That is the domain of transistors, resistors, capacitors, and so on. That path will not make you a game programmer. If you did work on those systems in a game console it would be only for a very limited function; you would be one member of a team that works on the audio subsystem of the console.

That being said, I wouldn't start down that route with a college book. You are better off starting with a "My First Microcontroller" style project book that comes with a bunch of components.


Oh , so there are multiple books that I will need to study in order to learn computer engineering? So I will need to get a book on each part bascially? If so will this book tell me what I will need to learn next or hint me toward what I need to learn after micro controllers...I have a little expierence with them, but not much at all. I'm looking fo everything that I will need to study. You said and so on, so that sort of leaves me at a blank spot because I havn't really found anything useful on computer hardaware engineering on the internet except very poorly and discrete written information.

Edited by Cdunn-1999, 28 May 2012 - 11:36 AM.


#6 Camas   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:31 PM

Hello, I am also, as you put it 'A young programmer'. I would start with programming now, because why not? Java is a good starting language. At least, it was good for me. ActionScript isn't bad. You can make games with Actionscript.
I made one, it's rather bad, but whatever.
http://camasthecat.deviantart.com/art/Sleigh-Run-277300615
Yeah.

#7 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:28 PM

Hello, I am also, as you put it 'A young programmer'. I would start with programming now, because why not? Java is a good starting language. At least, it was good for me. ActionScript isn't bad. You can make games with Actionscript.
I made one, it's rather bad, but whatever.
http://camasthecat.d...h-Run-277300615
Yeah.


Yes, but as I stated I want to be a computer scientist rather than a game developer. Theres a difference...A game developer is most likely in it because of his passion for videogames. A computer scientist makes more money and they rely on mathematics to solve a lot of problems in there code (varying on what they are developing). I too love game development, but in the future I want to do what is best for me and what I will make a good liveing on. Game developent would only be a hobby to me...more like a small learning expierence for me that I can have fun with....love your game btw. It's pretty fun.

Edited by Cdunn-1999, 28 May 2012 - 03:29 PM.


#8 Motok   Members   -  Reputation: 118

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:14 PM

Hey buddy! I get so excited when I see people like you haha Posted Image You are the exact type of person that I set my site up to help.
However Game development your better off here, but I wont go spamming a link to my site, but you can see it on my profile.

I would probably suggest that you learn everything as you go along in your own time in small pieces. Get involved within development teams meet people in places like here. As you said, you are young so there is plenty of time for you to learn!!

You could start off with app development, I would say as you are young offer services to people for free to gain experience. Posted Image I would probably recommend Java to learn to start with, perhaps as it is much more widely used across multiple platforms.

Edited by Motok, 28 May 2012 - 11:15 PM.


#9 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:19 PM

Hey buddy! I get so excited when I see people like you haha Posted Image You are the exact type of person that I set my site up to help.
However Game development your better off here, but I wont go spamming a link to my site, but you can see it on my profile.

I would probably suggest that you learn everything as you go along in your own time in small pieces.  Get involved within development teams meet people in places like here.  As you said, you are young so there is plenty of time for you to learn!!

You could start off with app development, I would say as you are young offer services to people for free to gain experience.  Posted Image  I would probably recommend Java to learn to start with, perhaps as it is much more widely used across multiple platforms.


Well java isn't exactly the programming language I would want to study for my first language. The programming and math that I want to learn is list below....All in order.

----MATH----
Basic Math * // Already completed the ones in dark blue
Pre Algebra*

Algebra 1 // Im learning this next year in 8th grade, but plan to learn it over this summer

Geometry // I also plan on learning the subjects that are purple
Algebra 2
Trigonometry
Precalculus
Calculus 1
Calculus 2
Calculus 3

Computaion Theory

Real Analysis // The subjects in red I am unsure of Posted Image, but am also a bit curious about
Complex Analysis
Abstract Algebra
Point-Set Topology
Set Theory
Logic
Differential Equations
Number Theory
Measure Theory

Category Theory

----PRORAMMING----
C#
C++
Python
Perl
Assembly....
Then I plan on learning thing like java and some web development languages.

----COMPUTER HARDWARE ENGINEERING----
Still trying to figure out what I exactly need to study in this topic. I ordered a supposedly decent book, but I don't think it will help me very much since I don't know exactly what I need to study on the topic....The book only cost me $4....I got it REALLY cheap, but money isn't what i'm worried about. I just want to learn everything correctly and not get lost in something just because I bought a book that wasn't what I was looking for or because I got the wrong information. Computer hardware engineering is the only topic left that I need to buy books on to continue my research on computers this summer. At the moment i'm gathering a collection of books I plan to study off of, but like I said I need more info on computer hardware engineering to buy the books I need and continue my studies. I know you said that I should learn each thing a bit as a time as I go on...thats what i'm doing, but i'm planning ahead of time. I like to plan ahead of time so I know what I need to work on in oreder and I stick to my original plan.

#10 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13929

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:14 AM

Yes, but as I stated I want to be a computer scientist rather than a game developer. Theres a difference...A game developer is most likely in it because of his passion for videogames. A computer scientist makes more money and they rely on mathematics to solve a lot of problems in there code (varying on what they are developing). I too love game development, but in the future I want to do what is best for me and what I will make a good liveing on. Game developent would only be a hobby to me...more like a small learning expierence for me that I can have fun with....love your game btw. It's pretty fun.

Posted Image
Why not do what both satisfies your passion and makes you the most money?

Firstly, the average game-programmer salary in 2010 was over $95,000, and has increased since then to close to $100,000 in 2012, making it completely competitive with the salaries of hardware engineers.
But the average game programmer is not R&D or mathematically inclined while the average hardware engineer is.

Game programmers who are mathematically inclined, logical, and able to solve technical problems via research, experimentation, and the average scientific process, are paid highest in the gaming industry within the R&D departments of their respective companies.
You know, the R&D department that makes all the game engines that all the average game programmers then use to make the games?

Just beating the average game-programmer salary via hardware engineering means becoming an elite “hardware design engineer”.
Congratulations. The same skills applied to software programming could have netted you nearly twice the income, plus made you happier along the way.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#11 Cdunn-1999   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:03 PM


Yes, but as I stated I want to be a computer scientist rather than a game developer. Theres a difference...A game developer is most likely in it because of his passion for videogames. A computer scientist makes more money and they rely on mathematics to solve a lot of problems in there code (varying on what they are developing). I too love game development, but in the future I want to do what is best for me and what I will make a good liveing on. Game developent would only be a hobby to me...more like a small learning expierence for me that I can have fun with....love your game btw. It's pretty fun.

Posted Image
Why not do what both satisfies your passion and makes you the most money?

Firstly, the average game-programmer salary in 2010 was over $95,000, and has increased since then to close to $100,000 in 2012, making it completely competitive with the salaries of hardware engineers.
But the average game programmer is not R&D or mathematically inclined while the average hardware engineer is.

Game programmers who are mathematically inclined, logical, and able to solve technical problems via research, experimentation, and the average scientific process, are paid highest in the gaming industry within the R&D departments of their respective companies.
You know, the R&D department that makes all the game engines that all the average game programmers then use to make the games?

Just beating the average game-programmer salary via hardware engineering means becoming an elite “hardware design engineer”.
Congratulations. The same skills applied to software programming could have netted you nearly twice the income, plus made you happier along the way.


L. Spiro


Really? I didn't know that. I thought game developers weren't getting paid very much these days...especially since many game stores are closeing down. Blockbuster, Gamestop, etc. Also from what i've heard, game developers are getting paid less then they were before and a lot of game developers are getting fired or laid off. I may have gotten that info from something that was falsely stated though.

#12 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10061

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:04 PM

1. I thought game developers weren't getting paid very much these days...
2. especially since many game stores are closeing down. Blockbuster, Gamestop, etc.
3. Also from what i've heard, game developers are getting paid less then they were before
4. and a lot of game developers are getting fired or laid off.
5. I may have gotten that info from something that was falsely stated though.


1. See the 2011 game developers salary survey (google it).
2. What happens in stores has no impact on game developer salaries.
3. No idea where you heard that. See the salary survey.
4. True. But that does not mean that those who kept their jobs took a salary cut.
5. You probably just misinterpreted it.
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.




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