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My Ideas about a sandbox Game, Feedback or help appreciated.


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#1 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:06 PM

A little bit about me
First thing's first, Let me start by introducing myself as you can see im new around here and this will be my first post, and i hope it does not hit you like a wall of text, that is not the what i am going for, My name is John im 20year's old and i live in Bradford ( England ) I have wanted to create a game since when i was a youngster, the earliest memory i have of this burning passion was when i was about 4year's old and i was thinking "Man, if i made a game i would have sand bags that made it so you did not take damage and then you could throw them at people or peek around the corner to shoot them" That is the earliest memory i have of wanting to, I setup my first business when i was 19 Year's old and that business is still running today, but that's not who i am or what i want to do there are 3 Directors of that Company and i am one of them, but i know this is what i want to do with my life and starting somewhere is better than never starting at all.


The game i wish to create
I wish to push the boundaries within my game i want people to sit there in awe and sometimes wonder how the hell we managed to get away with putting certain things into a game and then releasing it, i want my game to represent real life emotions and struggles not meaning to end up been bad but been driven to it, The Image of the title would be like this, The Camera would be looking at the Main character the Gamer plays and the surroundings Like if you are sat at home watching the TV on a wall across from you but at an angle, it would be a street with an ally to the far left side of the camera, in this ally you would see a man with a gun and a women on her knees, a speech bubble over the Main characters head saying "This is the world we live in" the image would be in black and white, The Image on the title is quite controversial as you can see but with it dimmed in black and white i believe it would create a more real effect than it would with it been in colour.

Of course, i have full scenes that i have thought of, the next seen i have already got planned, i get inspiration every day from looking at my surroundings and i jot them down and peoples experiences and my own experiences further my thought process and further my understanding of certain situations i want to make Real situations within the game that are not normally in games we play anyone can make a shooter or a kill this guy kill that guy but i want to make something more than that. People ask me "You need to know how to Code to do this Job" I disagree it would help sure but it maybe gives someone else a chance who can code to replace what would be me coding, pulling them out of a slump or giving them a full-time Job, or something to do while they are not so busy. I have ideas about what would go on around the Game world, not just the Main characters story but the surroundings would progress and things would happen that was random within the game, but i will save those details for another post.

Programs im thinking about using
I am thinking about using Euphoria
Also interested in 3DS Max for the animation aspects or the Models to be drawn into there and imported into the game

If anyone else knows of any good programs out there then please list them as all ideas and help is welcomed and encouraged.

Platforms for the game
Im thinking about Making this Game for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, Im undecided about the PC at the moment, i can push the Graphics and make the game look absolutely suburb on a PC, but again i myself always find myself playing Sand box games on my Xbox 360 and PS3, But you can make the world look lush and have everything detailed beautifully on the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 but you would have to ship the game with multiple disks the other alternative would be to have a standard download when first launching the game, these are some of the ideas i have had.

What about Costs?
To be honest, this is the only thing stopping me doing anything, i have the systems to do the work but i do not have the money to pay Developers/Animation artists/sound engineers and i can not ask them if they want a % of a company that has not been created yet you may fall back on my Original Company, but i want this to be fresh, no ties, no hook ups, Like the gaming company's of Today they was started in a house or a dorm, with nothing more than 3 or 4 people coming up with ideas and then creating the ideas. I have friends who would do Voice work for me, but as i said i can have everything in the world but without the correct people who can Develop/animate/draw and have a valuable interest in a vision like i do, then i can not do anything, unless i get lucky and a big Publisher sponsors my game, but i believe that would be like finding a needle in a hay stack, but you never know i might get lucky.


Why are you posting this here
Well, what i am looking for is Feedback, Insight and maybe even a little interest, This after all is The gaming universe of Coding/developing designing. If you wish to help me then i would appreciate that beyond belief, if you wish to give criticism then that's fine too as everything needs to be looked at, if you wish to get in touch with me Please add me on skype - de.bug1


Thank you for Reading my post, and thank you for taking and interest or providing me feedback, i appreciate it. Thank you again

John

Edit, I will upload some concept pictures tomorrow so you can get a better understanding of how the Front of the Game cover would look.

Edited by Authentic92, 10 June 2012 - 04:35 PM.


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#2 Recoilthreat   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:22 PM

so what type of game rpg ? what are to over all goals for the player ? i understand the enviroment your setting but not the over all game though it dose sound interesting please elaborate

#3 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:32 PM

Hmm, the type of game think Grand Theft auto / Saints row, Them type of free roam games but not that style as i said i want my game to represent real emotion and real feelings things that happen everyday or the everyday struggles people face, and unfortunately i do not wish to go into details about the goals for the characters or any other plot lines or characters within the game, However im really glad you're interested and showing enthusiasm. I will be uploading a drawing tomorrow of the Cover the game would ship with, but it will be a quick sketch to give you an idea.

#4 Recoilthreat   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:55 PM

so from what your telling me im getting the picture of a game called "shenmue" i look forward to the pic your going to post

#5 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6977

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:38 PM

the Cover the game would ship with

Wrong direction, don't start at the end. Start with a solid vision (seems you have it already), then do your very best to visualize your vision. When you are an artist, make some drawing/concept art to show off, when you are a coder, try to take a popular engine (udk,unity...) and prototype your vision.

You have several ways to make your dream true:
  • Someone give you money, but this will only happen if people believe that you're capable of doing what you want (=>lot of art and/or working prototype and/or high reputation in game community like i.e. Tim Schaefer).
  • Pitch your game idea to a team: works only if you have to show something off.
  • Pitch your game to a publisher: you should have an almost done game (not only 95% done).
Eventually you need to invest lot of work to get off the ground, best to learn either coding or art (combine it with degree and a job to make a living from it).

#6 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3462

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:31 AM

I don't understand one thing, if you were dreaming of making games at the age of 4 why haven't you started doing them at like age of 10? You are now 20 which means you waited 16 years! It does not sound like someone who enjoys making games at all :D
Pesonally, I suspect you could have misjudged your desires and that you probably want to make something else than games.

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#7 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:11 AM

People ask me "You need to know how to Code to do this Job" I disagree it would help sure but it maybe gives someone else a chance who can code to replace what would be me coding, pulling them out of a slump or giving them a full-time Job, or something to do while they are not so busy.


Unfortunately, they might be right. Have you seen an indie developer make a game with just ideas but zero coding skills? All the indie game developers I read about play a major role in the programming of the game. Even for AAA titles, the game designers have a history of programming games, and understood the code of their game.

A game's design is deeply interlinked with its programming. Its like painting: you don't see people design paintings and then get others to paint it for them. This is because the paint, canvas, brushes and techniques are deeply interlinked with producing a painting.

A game is like a painting: the code, art, music and story is your paint, canvas, brushes and techniques.

#8 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:48 AM

Hi all, thank you for the feed-back, The art the game would ship with on the title, would be the first scene in the game as many start with a small intro, and the game would ship with the box art i described but that would be the beginning of the game also

I have been in touch with various company's and as you said, they prefer to see something rarther than a description of something, so that's my plan to send a sample of my work and if they are interested i will send the rest, the reason i am hesitant to release more information is because the game is not copy righted, so all my ideas are free to be taken by a major developer should they catch wind of it.

On the coding aspect of the game, Think Grand Theft Auto, the writers of that game i don't believe can code, they just created the story and created the concept and look at them now, multi millionaires, unless i have that wrong and they can code.

I have just woke up and it's 2:48PM, i was up writing last night and other things so ill get this concept art up as soon as possible guys.

Thank you for the positive feedback and help, i greatly appreciate your help.

Edit, still working on the picture i have a friend drawing it for me so when i feel it's ready i will put up the picture :)

Edited by Authentic92, 11 June 2012 - 09:49 AM.


#9 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:36 AM

On the coding aspect of the game, Think Grand Theft Auto, the writers of that game i don't believe can code, they just created the story and created the concept and look at them now, multi millionaires, unless i have that wrong and they can code.



The guy who created Grand Theft Auto made more than 10 games before making Grand Theft Auto: http://en.wikipedia....game_developer).

Tom Sloper (he is a moderator here) has a very good guide about selling your game idea: http://www.sloperama...advice/idea.htm. This part is particularly pertinent to your situation:



a. Why nobody will just buy your idea from you. You didn't expect me to be talking about these things, did you? You just wanted somebody to take your idea and run with it, while you sit back and wait for the end result so you can play it, right? And maybe make some easy money.

Forget that right now, it's not going to happen.

Pretend for a moment that you have a great idea for a novel, not a game. How would you go about getting it written and published? Would you go to a bulletin board and advertise looking for an author to write it for you? No, you would have to get off your butt and write it yourself. I have heard that a friend of Frank Herbert (author of Dune) asked Herbert to author the friend's idea and split the profits 50/50. Herbert refused, even though the guy was a good friend -- Herbert's reply was basically that ideas are easy; the writing is the hard part. Think about it for a minute -- would YOU want to have a friend come up to you, tell you a few sentences, then have you spend months hunched over a keyboard turning his few sentences into the Great American Novel? I doubt it. If you did spend months writing that book, would you want to give half of the money to that guy? I don't think so.


Edited by Legendre, 11 June 2012 - 11:39 AM.


#10 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:20 PM

Dan Houser and Sam Houser who have created the story and feel for the last 4 or so Games i believe cannot code, they just write the game and setting and the animators developers do the work, but again the problem is them developers probably get paid alot of money for doing that work, unfortunately i am not in a position to do that, so as many said i think i will come up with alot of concept art and other works and go see publishers to see if they want to fund my game, unless i get lucky and win the lottery :o

Also, i could try going to university and asking them if they have people who wish to create a game with myself that way it would reduce the costs i would incur initially and it would give them something to put on there CV when they left and or if they stayed on my team if the game was successful.

Thank you for the feedback i appreciate it

#11 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:51 PM

Posted something by accident.

Edited by Authentic92, 11 June 2012 - 02:54 PM.


#12 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:45 PM

Dan Houser and Sam Houser who have created the story and feel for the last 4 or so Games i believe cannot code


1. Why do you believe they cannot code?
2. How is writing the story and feel alone enough to make a video game?
3. Do you think started with only an idea and some how managed to get others to fund and do all the tough work for them? Perhaps they worked their way up?


Quick update: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Houser says "He is responsible for taking GTA into the 3D-environment era, creating realistic cities under fully 3D-engines". Working on 3D-engines sound like coding to me.

What they are doing is very different from what you are trying to do. David Jones and Sam Houser are probably experienced coders with multiple titles under their belt, when they made GTA. Very different from someone with just ideas and no programming skills.

Also, i could try going to university and asking them if they have people who wish to create a game with myself that way it would reduce the costs i would incur initially and it would give them something to put on there CV when they left and or if they stayed on my team if the game was successful.


This is another reason why indie developers need to know some coding: you can start the project yourself. Once you have a prototype or tech demo, it is easier to convince others that you are serious.

Also, from personal experience, there might be enthusiastic sounding people who offer to work for free or for their CV, but these people will often just disappear on you. Another reason why its good to know how to code: that way you can take over the code and/or continue the project yourself while waiting for future help to come.

Thank you for the feedback i appreciate it


You are welcome. Good luck with this project. Hope to see your game one day. Posted Image

Edited by Legendre, 11 June 2012 - 04:54 PM.


#13 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:29 PM


Dan Houser and Sam Houser who have created the story and feel for the last 4 or so Games i believe cannot code


1. Why do you believe they cannot code?
2. How is writing the story and feel alone enough to make a video game?
3. Do you think started with only an idea and some how managed to get others to fund and do all the tough work for them? Perhaps they worked their way up?


Quick update: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sam_Houser says "He is responsible for taking GTA into the 3D-environment era, creating realistic cities under fully 3D-engines". Working on 3D-engines sound like coding to me.

What they are doing is very different from what you are trying to do. David Jones and Sam Houser are probably experienced coders with multiple titles under their belt, when they made GTA. Very different from someone with just ideas and no programming skills.

Also, i could try going to university and asking them if they have people who wish to create a game with myself that way it would reduce the costs i would incur initially and it would give them something to put on there CV when they left and or if they stayed on my team if the game was successful.


This is another reason why indie developers need to know some coding: you can start the project yourself. Once you have a prototype or tech demo, it is easier to convince others that you are serious.

Also, from personal experience, there might be enthusiastic sounding people who offer to work for free or for their CV, but these people will often just disappear on you. Another reason why its good to know how to code: that way you can take over the code and/or continue the project yourself while waiting for future help to come.

Thank you for the feedback i appreciate it


You are welcome. Good luck with this project. Hope to see your game one day. Posted Image


Thank you for this i understand this is not negative but constructive so thank you.

1, i did not believe they could, but if they can fair play to them i bet they worked hard for it Posted Image
2, I will design the Game and i will write the story, but i would have to employ animators and developers to do this part for me.

I will be Writing the Design content for the entire Game from tomorrow and untill i feel ready to release the information to any developer, at the current time My 2 friends who can draw and who will help me with concept art will draw what i need and if needs be they will happily help me with the Graphics to put into an actual Game. But again i would need an animator to put what's on paper into a Model engine into a game

I will write the design in a document file detailing every fine aspect of every option, an example of this is the following, please bare in mind this is an extremely small snipped of information, this is just so you can grasp on the idea of what i will be writing and tuning it to as much detail as possible.

Start game - This would start the game, the game would show a loading icon while remaining on the main Menu, upon the game loading it would launch the intro I will describe the intro in another section.
Load game- This would allow you to load any previous saved games and or the last auto save that was made. When selecting which save you would like it would display a “Loading Saved Game” message to let the Player know what the game is doing. This screen would be blacked out if this is the first time launching the game as there would be no saved game data to load from.


Obviously, this has the Header of "Main Menu" and it linked from the Table of contents for ease of navigation within the documentation. I will design the game, write it all down and then i will put the concept art in and see how it looks, i will then begin to write the story, i do not plan to rush this and i fully expect it to take many months before i feel anywhere need ready to release it to anyone.

Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.

Edit, sorry i promised some concept art today but i have been very busy planning and summarizing as you can see xD

Edited by Authentic92, 11 June 2012 - 07:31 PM.


#14 aattss   Members   -  Reputation: 383

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:28 AM

So, you know how to write a professional GDD? As in, professional? There is a difference between a GDD and an idea.

#15 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:46 PM

So, you know how to write a professional GDD? As in, professional? There is a difference between a GDD and an idea.


Yes, i can write a GDD i will put all the details into the GDD and i will explain it as-if i am explaining it to a developer so they understand it better with percentages and other things Posted Image

Another snipped of information from my GDD

SFX Volume, This would turn the sound effects down or up, this will start at a base of 50% and can be turned down to 0 which would be no sound at all and all the way up to 100% with 100% been the loudest it can go, as with the sensitivity if you drop it by 10% below 50% each time you drop it down it will get quieter if you slide it above 50% each time you go 10% higher after 50% it would get louder


This is how i am writing in my GDD, there will also be concept Art within there to help facilitate what i write.

Edit, here is what my GDD look's like, Terrible cropping skills, Clicky here

Edited by Authentic92, 12 June 2012 - 03:42 PM.


#16 Konidias   Members   -  Reputation: 214

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:46 PM

I really don't think you need to go into detail on how the SFX volume control works... You really don't have to explain the most basic of functions. "start game would start the game". Is this the captain obvious version of a GDD? I think you're missing the point of why a GDD is written.

I also think you need to learn another skill that can be helpful in game development. To me it just sounds like you don't want to put in the hard work required to learn programming and you just want to be the idea guy that everyone works for. You even stated yourself that you need a bunch of money to pay people because really, that's the only way an idea guy with no experience can exist.

I'm not saying you don't have a chance at getting funded or something... but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
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#17 Authentic92   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:49 PM

I really don't think you need to go into detail on how the SFX volume control works... You really don't have to explain the most basic of functions. "start game would start the game". Is this the captain obvious version of a GDD? I think you're missing the point of why a GDD is written.

I also think you need to learn another skill that can be helpful in game development. To me it just sounds like you don't want to put in the hard work required to learn programming and you just want to be the idea guy that everyone works for. You even stated yourself that you need a bunch of money to pay people because really, that's the only way an idea guy with no experience can exist.

I'm not saying you don't have a chance at getting funded or something... but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.


I will be designing and writing the entire story for the Game, so not just the guy who designs and employs people, i will also write the story.

As i said, i will be completely descriptive with my GDD to the point of been captain obvious just to hammer home what i want, then when someone reads it or something i can expect them to fully understand what i am wanting, Also they will create there own aspects as well as mine, i would allow people to change or add things if they are better or ideas are better than mine, this would be a Team-Effort not a My design so do it like this now.

Also, Money is my main issue, because at the moment i can not go out and hire 15 or so Animators and Developers at 60K+ a year to help me, but i have other ideas also i am putting in hard work at the moment, it's very frustrating thinking you have something 100% and then realising you need to change something or start afresh.

But i thank you for the feed-back Posted Image

Edit, according to Wikipedia

A game design document may be made of text, images, diagrams, concept art, or any applicable media to better illustrate design decisions. Some design documents may include functional prototypes or a chosen game engine for some sections of the game.
Although considered a requirement by many companies, a GDD has no set industry standard form. For example, developers may choose to keep the document as a word processed document, or as an on-line collaboration tool.


Edited by Authentic92, 12 June 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#18 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:44 PM

To me it just sounds like you don't want to put in the hard work required to learn programming and you just want to be the idea guy that everyone works for.


Also, he has never made a game before but he wants to develop an Xbox360-PS3 game that pushes game design and graphics boundary.

After hanging out in this forum for around 1.5 months, I am amazed by the number of people coming in here wanting to make sandbox MMOs with amazing graphics that rivals best selling games etc with zero programming knowledge, never made a game before, and insists on spending all their time writing intricate game design documents in order to convince others to do all the hard work for them.

#19 Recoilthreat   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:18 AM

Also, he has never made a game before but he wants to develop an Xbox360-PS3 game that pushes game design and graphics boundary.

Point one. Currently there are very few games that can push the 360 and ps3 which is why we haven’t had a "new" major console officially announced for quite a few years now
Point two. due the releases of major engines (such as udk and cry engine) making a sandbox game with high graphics with out "knowing" code is much more common and encourages people to design what they imagine now I’m not saying that learning coding languages isn't necessary because it is at least at a basic level to effectively communicate you ideas to you team but so is art, graphics, cinema, and writing these all are just as important to know as well and I feel like most people down play them



After hanging out in this forum for around 1.5 months, I am amazed by the number of people coming in here wanting to make sandbox MMOs with amazing graphics that rivals best selling games etc with zero programming knowledge, never made a game before, and insists on spending all their time writing intricate game design documents in order to convince others to do all the hard work for them.

to that I say who is anyone to say what we dream, imagine, or design too big or to unrealistic to even try to accomplish just because they don’t know how to code or they have never made a game that’s why we are here to help people in understanding what it take and is needed to make a game and for them to find the people or information they need to make what they want come to life I will however agree on two things
1. No one but you is ever going to make your game come to life even if you sell it to someone else it will not be yours and it will never be what you first dreamed of
2. Knloage is key at lease at a basic level of all parts of this industry but it is also key to know the people who can help you if you don’t know how to code, draw, write, design, or create read. learn and try so you can understand it at a basic level and then find the person who knows it better this makes communicating you game to them much easer

#20 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:23 AM

Point one. Currently there are very few games that can push the 360 and ps3 which is why we haven’t had a "new" major console officially announced for quite a few years now
Point two. due the releases of major engines (such as udk and cry engine) making a sandbox game with high graphics with out "knowing" code is much more common and encourages people to design what they imagine now I’m not saying that learning coding languages isn't necessary because it is at least at a basic level to effectively communicate you ideas to you team but so is art, graphics, cinema, and writing these all are just as important to know as well and I feel like most people down play them


I understand that there are a lot of people on GameDev who go around deriding newcomers and telling them they need to study programming for 10 years before they can make a game. As a newcomer to "serious" game development (been making games as a hobby), I get that a lot myself.

The problem here is that the OP has zero programming skills. But yet he is aiming to beat 360 and ps3 industry veterans at graphics programming. That has got to be unfeasible no matter how you cut it.

I am not sure what you meant by "knowing" code, but you got to agree that using UDK or Cry engine to make a sandbox game with top notch graphics without knowing a single thing about programming is just impossible. There is just no easy off-the-shelf solution for people to churn out games that can compete with top veterans.




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