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#1 Yorki   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:35 AM

Hello :)

I'm new to PC game programming, so far I was working on web based games. Now I want to try something bigger similar to Lineage II. I know guys how fucking hard work is that, but anyway I want to try it, even if it fails after few months of work I would have experience. If you want to tell me how bad my idea is then keep it for yourself and don't spam. Don't kill my motivation, thanks.

So the first thing I would like to know is which engine would be the best for MMO programming. I've read that UDK isn't good for that because I would have to rewrite networking classes and much more pain. I know that doing it would result in amazing looks game, but I dont have 180ppl like TERA did to work at that and experience they had from UE2 coding L2. I don't know about Cry Engine if it's good choice to making MMO with it, but isn't it like 400k $ ? However cry engine is amazing, but I doubt I could buy it. I need some engine with really good looking natural graphics. Google screens from L2, I don't like graphics which Tera-Online or AION has.

For now most important thing is to get some basics working like, moving, chating, seeing each other and proper structure of packets. After I get it working I would find more people to work with as they see basics are done. I have some experience with crypting, networking etc, because I made some bots for Lineage II and working server emulator. So I'm not newbie.

Hope you guys take it serious and give me valuable advices.

P.S Sorry for my english, but I missed some classes :D

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#2 Konrad Jablonski   Members   -  Reputation: 482

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:45 AM

Im quite sure you can achive that with Irrlicht engine using rakNet for networking :P
http://sourceforge.net/apps/gallery/irrlicht/index.php?g2_itemId=171

#3 Yorki   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:49 AM

Im quite sure you can achive that with Irrlicht engine using rakNet for networking Posted Image
http://sourceforge.n...p?g2_itemId=171


Looks nice, what about licenses?

#4 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:07 AM

Irrlicht is completely free to use and modify in your own games. Just have to stick that you've used Irrlicht somewhere either in your code, readmes, manual or credits screen.

Cryengine is free to use on non-commercial products. If you are a solo developer and selling commercially then you must pay royalties only (so license becomes per copy sold). If your a team or you earn a certain profit then you have to pay their full license which is done on a per project basis < you contact them with a design document I think and they give you a quote for the engine usage.

There is also the UDK yes, free on non commercial, license starting at $50000 (may be wrong) for commercial.

Unity is also available, graphics aren't top of the line but can be done pretty nicely. They have cheap licensing and are also free on non-commercial games. I think MMO's have been done in it too.



rakNet I have no idea, they seem to be doing this whole different price dependant on your budget and profit etc. View pricing for it here: http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/pricing.html
You may well fit into the free license for that unless your project somehow takes off and becomes the next WoW inwhich case you'll be paying.

You say you have experience in networking, you may well be able to roll your own networking engine, would probably be unlike anything you've worked on before and for an MMO it would be highly complex.

#5 Konrad Jablonski   Members   -  Reputation: 482

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:21 AM

well was about to reply but 6677 explained pretty much everything :P yeah Unity is good too, but its using c# if i remember right not c++. Which doesnt make much difference to be honest. Also irrlicht is really simple, its like 3 line of code to load up .obj file exported from maya.

#6 Yorki   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:26 AM

But the question is if it's dificult to programming MMO in those engines. Like UDK has maximum 64 connections and it's far away from calling it MMO and trying to write MMO in SDK is out of my range, because it would need many modifications. What about Cry Engine? Anyone has experience with it? Know its possibilities? Well Irrlicht looks good, but not amazing and if I have no other choice I would go for it. I saw unity, but graphics of games made in that engine looks average and comparing free Irrlicht makes no sense to pay for it or am I wrong?

#7 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6938

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:54 AM

For now most important thing is to get some basics working like, moving, chating, seeing each other and proper structure of packets. After I get it working I would find more people to work with as they see basics are done.

That is really a good idea and a good start.

When it comes down to engines, most commercial engines have their roots in FPS genre, therefore have hi-graphical standards, but limited features when it comes down to open world, sandbox and MMO. I fear, that cryengine and even unity will not be any different from this. Most engines have some kind of free/indie license available, even CE and Unity. Take a look at ryzom for a MMORPG under GPL (=> you can use it engines under the given license, including all the network code etc.).

Dated looking visuals are often an issue of lacking budget (ogre/irrlicht) or a result of the original target hardware. When you take the budget of AAA games ( $ XX mio) and put this into art asset creation, it will even look amazing on not cutting edge engines ! Take a look at overdose, it is build with a (modified?) id-tech2 engine !!!

Edited by Ashaman73, 14 June 2012 - 07:00 AM.


#8 joew   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3616

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:22 AM

I need some engine with really good looking natural graphics. Google screens from L2, I don't like graphics which Tera-Online or AION has.

Just a heads up, you are actually talking about aesthetics here and not graphics, and this is controlled by your artists and not the engine. The actual style and look is the aesthetic principle and really has nothing to do with the engine at all.

Also is there a reason you're avoiding the proven solutions like HeroCloud and BigWorld?

#9 Yorki   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:08 AM

Also is there a reason you're avoiding the proven solutions like HeroCloud and BigWorld?


Never heard of them, will take a look into them

EDIT: Looks amazing, but do you have any feedback using them?

Edited by Yorki, 14 June 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#10 joew   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3616

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:46 AM

Personally no. Although if you consider SWTOR was built using HeroEngine and a vast amount of MMOs have launched on BigWorld they should be completely fine for a one man team. They are specifically built for this type of game and provide the tools you would otherwise spend a few years building.

#11 Yorki   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

Personally no. Although if you consider SWTOR was built using HeroEngine and a vast amount of MMOs have launched on BigWorld they should be completely fine for a one man team. They are specifically built for this type of game and provide the tools you would otherwise spend a few years building.


Is there any way to try it out, before you pay 99$?

#12 Ripiz   Members   -  Reputation: 529

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:17 PM

What about Cry Engine? Know its possibilities?


Entropia Universe is using CryEngine 2. My PC is too weak to run game even on lowest settings, but Crysis 2 works fine on lowest setting (which is normal if I recall correctly)

Edited by Ripiz, 14 June 2012 - 12:18 PM.


#13 wolfscaptain   Members   -  Reputation: 200

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:40 PM

You should realize that the "graphics" you are talking about have nothing to do with the engines, but with the assets the games use.

If your models are high quality, they are high quality, if they are low quality, they are low quality.

Therefore, seeing examples and screenshots and deciding if an engine is good or not based on them isn't very wise.

Edited by wolfscaptain, 14 June 2012 - 12:41 PM.





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