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UDK or Unity? The best game engine for beginners?


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#41 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 04:02 AM

@m6DEEp and Simon forsman,

Well I get the software for free (can qualify as a student, though I don't go to gaming school...) now the original plan when I'm finished with my first few projects I want to send them over on the web to wherever I can get a little extra money at first, then maybe port the better idea to a console or so. But you can't do that, what's the point?

M6dEEp- unity does have a full free version, but the only difference is, is that the unity free version people compare to a "trial" because you don't get some rendering, shading, glass refraction, and water features but other than that, it's full, free, and you can send your game away on the web.

>once I learn unreal script I will be sure to switch over to UDK, or maybe learn another for Cryengine! The Cryengine is really cool...but my laptop was running a forest demo at 2 fps...woops!

Thanks for the comments Simon forsman and m6dEEp! I really appreciate them! And hopefully my questions can all be answered!

Sponsor:

#42 Apolyon6k   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 04:14 AM

Hi,
I am new to this forum but have worked with both Unity and UDK on game projects.

The choice of engine depends on the type of game you want to make.

If you want the game to be a shooter type game, either first person or third person, the UDK is the more attractive choice, with more features to play with and many tutorials to help you out. Other types of games are managable with the UDK but need a lot of programming to implement.

With Unity you have more freedom to try different game types either 2D or 3D because you can (and in most cases have to) write every single aspect of your game on your own.

There are many different ways to start developing a game but the first is always the concept, what kind of game do you want to make (different genres have different dependencies), what perspective are you using (1st or 3rd person, 2D or 3D) and after that the choice of engine or middleware is much easier because you can look at existing games and learn how they were developed.

If it is your first game project it is easier to make a clone of an existing game than making your own because you learn a lot by i.e. designing a mario clone that works fine but is nothing new. With the experience you got from that clone project you can go on to harder challenges like making a small game that is not a clone.
Starting i.e. a MMORPG without prior experience in game development is a challenge that might be too much for you and you will fail with a high percentage.
Start small and add challenges graduly (or like Bob would say, "Babysteps down the hall, babysteps to the elevator").

so long,
Apolyon

Edited by Apolyon6k, 20 June 2012 - 04:17 AM.


#43 Apolyon6k   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 04:26 AM

>once I learn unreal script I will be sure to switch over to UDK, or maybe learn another for Cryengine! The Cryengine is really cool...but my laptop was running a forest demo at 2 fps...woops!


The Cryengine is even more restricted than the UDK in game types that you can manage to build with it. The free SDK is a gloryfied map editor for Crysis 2. You are only able to make mods or even mutators for the game and not make a new game with it

Edited by Apolyon6k, 20 June 2012 - 04:30 AM.


#44 kazisami   Members   -  Reputation: 558

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:14 AM

I actually advice you to start with Unity and have a c# reference book by side. like- deitels C# how to program, and then you come up with a fairly small game idea, try to get your feet wet, when stuck search for it until you find it, in the reference books or in online unity tutorials etc. in this way you will get a good idea in which direction to go and what to do. Good Luck Posted Image

To follow the path:

look to the master,

follow the master,

walk with the master,

see through the master,

become the master.

http://kazisami.wordpress.com/


#45 M6dEEp   Members   -  Reputation: 890

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:35 PM

Yes UDK is more biased toward action games, shooters especially. Do take note that you are mostly limited by your ingenuity and creativity. I have seen plenty of games created purely using Kismet (the engine's visual scripting language for those who don't know) albeit limited. The best advice I can give is to learn how to use the tools provided. The one thing that kind of sucks is that the engine's renderer makes things look pretty good with minimal amounts of effort, so you feel the constant pressure to have better art all the time. Well, at least it was that way for me.

#46 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:26 AM


>once I learn unreal script I will be sure to switch over to UDK, or maybe learn another for Cryengine! The Cryengine is really cool...but my laptop was running a forest demo at 2 fps...woops!


The Cryengine is even more restricted than the UDK in game types that you can manage to build with it. The free SDK is a gloryfied map editor for Crysis 2. You are only able to make mods or even mutators for the game and not make a new game with it


I see, that probably explains why there are people making Crysis 2 "sequels".

#47 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:28 AM

Yes UDK is more biased toward action games, shooters especially. Do take note that you are mostly limited by your ingenuity and creativity. I have seen plenty of games created purely using Kismet (the engine's visual scripting language for those who don't know) albeit limited. The best advice I can give is to learn how to use the tools provided. The one thing that kind of sucks is that the engine's renderer makes things look pretty good with minimal amounts of effort, so you feel the constant pressure to have better art all the time. Well, at least it was that way for me.


Well at one point i'd like to make a shooter, but it'd have to be pretty unique, not remaking a game thats similar in gameplay or style (like most) i agree, limited by ingenuity and creativity...and knowledge. I think i'll stick with Unity, if its easier than UDK, and then switch over after i have some coding and a game under my belt.

#48 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:33 AM

Does anybody know a good text editor to write code in? for Javascript?

#49 Shiro winds   Members   -  Reputation: 89

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:38 AM

Unity is better to start of with

#50 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:57 AM

New ambition: make a game with dinosaurs that doesnt suck...I have many scenarios already planned out...and it steers away from guns. Anyway do Unreal is better off for shooters, but Unity is easier to start off with? Just learned te GUI of Unity and needed a text editor to start scripting. Or do I not need one?

#51 Malignant_Oakman   Members   -  Reputation: 926

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:17 PM

New ambition: make a game with dinosaurs that doesnt suck...I have many scenarios already planned out...and it steers away from guns. Anyway do Unreal is better off for shooters, but Unity is easier to start off with? Just learned te GUI of Unity and needed a text editor to start scripting. Or do I not need one?


Unity does have a script editor built-in, MonoDevelop, but it's missing a few nice features to have, so I personally switched to Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Pro, which I got for free being a student. I believe you can get Visual Studio Express for free student-or-not though, if you prefer it over MonoDevelop. I'm programming in C# on a Windows platform, tho. If you're using JavaScript/UnityScript, you might be better off just using MonoDevelop.

The Unify Community website does list some recommended editors, too, but honestly... it's just personal preference:

http://www.unifycommunity.com/wiki/index.php?title=Script_Editors

#52 Ryan Schurton   Members   -  Reputation: 172

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:42 PM

Unity all the way. Just because games like batman and gears of war where made with unreal doesn't mean it's the best for us noobs to start using. Unity has tons of tutorials. A great community, Awesome documentation, assets to get your game rolling, Not to mention it supports c# which is a great language to start with, And is soo easy to port to other platforms its retarded so head over to the walker boy studio website right now and start learning.http://www.walkerboystudio.com/html/unity_training___free__.html

Edited by RoyalRyan, 22 June 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#53 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:27 AM

What exactly will I have to use with Unity? So I can use monodevelop but what about middleware? Or 3ds max/ maya will I need any of those, or whatever would be helpful for Unity? And how does one upload art for a game in unity?

#54 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6110

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:05 AM

What exactly will I have to use with Unity? So I can use monodevelop but what about middleware? Or 3ds max/ maya will I need any of those, or whatever would be helpful for Unity? And how does one upload art for a game in unity?


Any 3d modeller that can export to .FBX, .dae, .3DS, .dxf or .obj works, on the Unity website the following are listed as supported:
Maya, Cinema 4D, 3ds Max, Cheetah3D, Modo, Lightwave, Blender. (Allthough other tools will work aswell), FBX is probably the best format to export/import as since it includes everything, (some of the other formats can only store static or keyframe animated meshes for example)
for texture creation you can use tools like gimp, paint.net, photoshop, paintshop pro, ms paint, etc. (Any tool that can create/modify 2 dimensional images works here)
for sound/music anything goes aswell, Audacity is fairly popular(for sound effects atleast) but the built in sound recorder in windows work aswell Posted Image (Supported formats are ogg, mpeg(1/2/3) wav, aiff, mod, it, s3m, xm) (for good music apps you'd have to ask a composer, allthough something like fasttracker might work for you (its fairly easy to use)
You cannot add any middleware to Unity Free (you need the pro version to do that), most of what you need should be included allready though.

To add art assets to your game you just have to click the assets menu and select import assets.

Oh, and Unity 4 will be released soon (i just got my pre-order discount offer from them)(it adds quite alot of nice things)

Edited by SimonForsman, 23 June 2012 - 08:11 AM.

I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#55 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 09:16 AM

Oh, and Unity 4 will be released soon (i just got my pre-order discount offer from them)(it adds quite alot of nice things)

Including linux support which is something I've been waiting for, native builds of kerbal space program hopefully :D although KSP does run in wine.


OP, no need for monodevelop. Unity has all the compilers and code editors you need built in.

#56 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6110

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:43 AM

OP, no need for monodevelop. Unity has all the compilers and code editors you need built in.


Unity installs monodevelop for you and uses that to edit and debug scripts.
I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#57 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:49 PM


What exactly will I have to use with Unity? So I can use monodevelop but what about middleware? Or 3ds max/ maya will I need any of those, or whatever would be helpful for Unity? And how does one upload art for a game in unity?


Any 3d modeller that can export to .FBX, .dae, .3DS, .dxf or .obj works, on the Unity website the following are listed as supported:
Maya, Cinema 4D, 3ds Max, Cheetah3D, Modo, Lightwave, Blender. (Allthough other tools will work aswell), FBX is probably the best format to export/import as since it includes everything, (some of the other formats can only store static or keyframe animated meshes for example)
for texture creation you can use tools like gimp, paint.net, photoshop, paintshop pro, ms paint, etc. (Any tool that can create/modify 2 dimensional images works here)
for sound/music anything goes aswell, Audacity is fairly popular(for sound effects atleast) but the built in sound recorder in windows work aswell Posted Image (Supported formats are ogg, mpeg(1/2/3) wav, aiff, mod, it, s3m, xm) (for good music apps you'd have to ask a composer, allthough something like fasttracker might work for you (its fairly easy to use)
You cannot add any middleware to Unity Free (you need the pro version to do that), most of what you need should be included allready though.

To add art assets to your game you just have to click the assets menu and select import assets.

Oh, and Unity 4 will be released soon (i just got my pre-order discount offer from them)(it adds quite alot of nice things)


Thank you for the info Simon! i will remember that!

Now, one big question as i start out, i need the proper mindset. And that question of how to create this always comes to mind, and i start thinking of things that could happen hours into the game or towards the ending. So my question is, what is the proper mindset? what should you do first when creating a game? what about cinematics? menus? scenes act as levels right? so should i start with terrain, skybox, creating buildings? When AAA-like game developers start a project, what is the first thing to do? do they start drawing up levels and such? or storyboards or what? If i can understand what i should start out with, i can actually begin. Right now i'm looking over the scripting tutorial on Unity, will have to print that out.

#58 Chris941   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

I can read the manual, print out tutorials and work my way around learning a few things in a few days, but i'm just not sure exactly how to start for the game.

#59 Apolyon6k   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:14 AM

Make a concept of the kind of game you want to make, like genre, perspective and so on, and then pick the most important mechanic or the most important aspect of the game and start there. Make a small prototype containing only the needed features and make that work.
For a platformer that would be displaying some placeholder platforms and a placeholder character and let it jump from platform to platform.
After you are satisfied with that aspect start adding new features but always test them out before adding new ones.

In projects I worked with we always started with a bare prototype, in one case we even made a paper prototype before even starting the computer. Things like menues and HUDs always came later unless they were necessary for the prototype to work.

#60 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6110

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 08:56 AM

Now, one big question as i start out, i need the proper mindset. And that question of how to create this always comes to mind, and i start thinking of things that could happen hours into the game or towards the ending. So my question is, what is the proper mindset? what should you do first when creating a game? what about cinematics? menus? scenes act as levels right? so should i start with terrain, skybox, creating buildings? When AAA-like game developers start a project, what is the first thing to do? do they start drawing up levels and such? or storyboards or what? If i can understand what i should start out with, i can actually begin. Right now i'm looking over the scripting tutorial on Unity, will have to print that out.


The first thing you should do is implement the core gameplay, a quick and dirty prototype works just fine for this purpose, being able to test

Make a concept of the kind of game you want to make, like genre, perspective and so on, and then pick the most important mechanic or the most important aspect of the game and start there. Make a small prototype containing only the needed features and make that work.
For a platformer that would be displaying some placeholder platforms and a placeholder character and let it jump from platform to platform.
After you are satisfied with that aspect start adding new features but always test them out before adding new ones.

In projects I worked with we always started with a bare prototype, in one case we even made a paper prototype before even starting the computer. Things like menues and HUDs always came later unless they were necessary for the prototype to work.


This is what i do aswell, core gameplay first, if the core mechanics are boring or if my own incompetence prevents me from making them fun it becomes pointless to add the rest, with Unity you can create a quick prototype in a few hours.

Also, to get you started with Unity (or any other engine), make a pong clone, it is one of the fastest games to make yet covers all the important aspects of a game, in Unity you'd do this by:
1) Create gameobjects for the paddles, the ball and a gamearea(2 walls and a floor). (The built in cube and sphere shapes are good enough for this, so no need to create custom models)
2) Write a script to let you control one (or both) of the paddles using the keyboard (or mouse).
3) Write a script to give the ball an initial push and reset it if it goes out of bounds.
4) Optionally: add GUI, scoring, sound effects(bonus points for 3D sound), AI(a separate script attached to the 2nd paddle), etc.

Here is the pong clone i made as a test to get familiar with Unity; http://www.reunited-guild.net/pong/ (Deployed as a flash app so no need to download anything)

Edited by SimonForsman, 25 June 2012 - 09:06 AM.

I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!




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