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Engine or API?


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#1 riverreal   Members   -  Reputation: 616

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 12:59 PM

I want to jump from 2d graphics to 3d.
I tested UDK, and Opengl, I loved both!

But now I dont know the best way to become a professional game programer.

Is the low level programming (like openGL) a good skill for getting a job as a game programmer?

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#2 Rion   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:39 PM

I don't think so. As a game programmer you have to have some knowledge how the game works and you have to create your own stuff. So if you want to be a professional game programmer, you should start learning some programming language (you choose).

#3 Goran Milovanovic   Members   -  Reputation: 1103

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

Is the low level programming (like openGL) a good skill for getting a job as a game programmer?


Yes, but it's not the only skill required.

In order to get a "job" in the game development industry, you need to have a job in the game development industry. Posted Image

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#4 riverreal   Members   -  Reputation: 616

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:30 PM

I don't think so. As a game programmer you have to have some knowledge how the game works and you have to create your own stuff. So if you want to be a professional game programmer, you should start learning some programming language (you choose).


I already know c/c++ and python.

#5 Smilex   Members   -  Reputation: 118

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:06 PM

First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.
Currently trying to contribute to the Desurium project.

Macro, then refine.

#6 Narf the Mouse   Members   -  Reputation: 318

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:11 PM

Learn low-level? Learn high-level?

The best answer is "Yes". At least in my opinion. :)

#7 riverreal   Members   -  Reputation: 616

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:16 PM

First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting

#8 Smilex   Members   -  Reputation: 118

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:12 PM


First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting


I wasn't judging, and if the tone of my reply seemed to be so, then I'm sorry about, wasn't intended.
But OpenGL is not an API in itself whether Wikipedia says it or not, OpenGL is only a specification written by the ABI which only says what a certain functionality should do, never how it is implemented. Then there is the OpenGL C API, for which the implementation is provided by your driver vendor.
Currently trying to contribute to the Desurium project.

Macro, then refine.

#9 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5179

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:41 PM



First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting


I wasn't judging, and if the tone of my reply seemed to be so, then I'm sorry about, wasn't intended.
But OpenGL is not an API in itself whether Wikipedia says it or not, OpenGL is only a specification written by the ABI which only says what a certain functionality should do, never how it is implemented. Then there is the OpenGL C API, for which the implementation is provided by your driver vendor.


Wow, that is splitting some pretty tiny semantic hairs there.

You are safe calling OpenGL an API, as the standard itself *IS* defining the API that vendors implement. It is the API itself that is standardized!

Hell, even Kronus, the group regulating OpenGL says this: "

OpenGL® is the most widely adopted 2D and 3D graphics API in the industry"



#10 Smilex   Members   -  Reputation: 118

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 04:52 PM




First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting


I wasn't judging, and if the tone of my reply seemed to be so, then I'm sorry about, wasn't intended.
But OpenGL is not an API in itself whether Wikipedia says it or not, OpenGL is only a specification written by the ABI which only says what a certain functionality should do, never how it is implemented. Then there is the OpenGL C API, for which the implementation is provided by your driver vendor.


Wow, that is splitting some pretty tiny semantic hairs there.

You are safe calling OpenGL an API, as the standard itself *IS* defining the API that vendors implement. It is the API itself that is standardized!

Hell, even Kronus, the group regulating OpenGL says this: "

OpenGL® is the most widely adopted 2D and 3D graphics API in the industry"



Yet calling it an API takes away some of the beauty of it, like that it is language independent. Also which OpenGL API do you refer to? Although most (if not all) language implementations fallback to the C implementation, it's still fair to say "The OpenGL Python API", also if you insist on calling it an API, you should at least consider it to be multiple when typing it, like for example "You can choose an OpenGL API" and not the. But take note that I said that he would be better of calling it a specification, not that this is a law and that I will flip a table if he doesn't.
Currently trying to contribute to the Desurium project.

Macro, then refine.

#11 XNA-3D-101   Members   -  Reputation: 120

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:45 PM

I've never worked in the game industry. But one thing I can tell you is that 90% of game programing is not the framework but the algorithms. In plain English, what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter whether you learn DirectX, OpenGL, or XNA. None of them are going to implement something like a ROAM Level of Detail algorithm for you. You have to program that yourself. And that is what game development is all about. DirectX, OpenGL, and XNA don't create games; they draw to the screen. Drawing to the screen is not any more "creating a game" than grabbing a pencil and paper and drawing is "creating a game". It's just drawing. At least 90% of the game is totally independent of DirectX, OpenGL, or XNA. It's also largely independent of C++, Java, or C#.

I mean obviously knowing C++ and DirectX will look good on a resume if you go to get a job as a game programmer. But you can be a world class expert in those subjects and not know the first thing about creating games.

My advice: pick something and learn how to create games with it. It doesn't matter which. But I'll also tell you that my personal opinion is that it's best to start with C# and XNA because it's the easiest to get help with when you get stuck.

#12 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5179

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:12 PM





First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting


I wasn't judging, and if the tone of my reply seemed to be so, then I'm sorry about, wasn't intended.
But OpenGL is not an API in itself whether Wikipedia says it or not, OpenGL is only a specification written by the ABI which only says what a certain functionality should do, never how it is implemented. Then there is the OpenGL C API, for which the implementation is provided by your driver vendor.


Wow, that is splitting some pretty tiny semantic hairs there.

You are safe calling OpenGL an API, as the standard itself *IS* defining the API that vendors implement. It is the API itself that is standardized!

Hell, even Kronus, the group regulating OpenGL says this: "

OpenGL® is the most widely adopted 2D and 3D graphics API in the industry"



Yet calling it an API takes away some of the beauty of it, like that it is language independent. Also which OpenGL API do you refer to? Although most (if not all) language implementations fallback to the C implementation, it's still fair to say "The OpenGL Python API", also if you insist on calling it an API, you should at least consider it to be multiple when typing it, like for example "You can choose an OpenGL API" and not the. But take note that I said that he would be better of calling it a specification, not that this is a law and that I will flip a table if he doesn't.



I think you may be confusing terms here.

The OpenGL API *is* a C based API.

There used to be a couple of implementations of the API, such as Mesa, or Iris GL, which was the progenitor of OpenGL.

When you mention the Python OpenGL API, or C# OpenGL API, or a library like Java's LWJGL, those are actually bindings, which simply call call the C api using whatever native binding mechanism that language supports.

#13 Smilex   Members   -  Reputation: 118

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:00 PM






First of I'd like to note that you'll be better off calling OpenGL a specification and not an API, you can read on why that is the correct term.
But to the actual question. I'd say it really depends on what you want to do, do you like coding things that people have coded for you, just to learn how? Then OpenGL is great. Are you interested in making a game? Then I'd say UDK. Or I wouldn't really recommend UDK, as I have no experiences with it, but it was one of the two options you wanted.
Also note that I did not answer with the idea that you want a job in mind, just because personally I wouldn't hire a game developer who does it only to get a job.


Calm down I was just asking xD

And actually openGL is an API: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I never said I only need a job... I wanted it because it's a good way to understand the professional way to make games.
I wasn't requesting a job... Just asking if openGL is a wanted ability, I don't need any offer unless you
I already have a small indie team.


Not prejudge before meeting


I wasn't judging, and if the tone of my reply seemed to be so, then I'm sorry about, wasn't intended.
But OpenGL is not an API in itself whether Wikipedia says it or not, OpenGL is only a specification written by the ABI which only says what a certain functionality should do, never how it is implemented. Then there is the OpenGL C API, for which the implementation is provided by your driver vendor.


Wow, that is splitting some pretty tiny semantic hairs there.

You are safe calling OpenGL an API, as the standard itself *IS* defining the API that vendors implement. It is the API itself that is standardized!

Hell, even Kronus, the group regulating OpenGL says this: "

OpenGL® is the most widely adopted 2D and 3D graphics API in the industry"



Yet calling it an API takes away some of the beauty of it, like that it is language independent. Also which OpenGL API do you refer to? Although most (if not all) language implementations fallback to the C implementation, it's still fair to say "The OpenGL Python API", also if you insist on calling it an API, you should at least consider it to be multiple when typing it, like for example "You can choose an OpenGL API" and not the. But take note that I said that he would be better of calling it a specification, not that this is a law and that I will flip a table if he doesn't.



I think you may be confusing terms here.

The OpenGL API *is* a C based API.

There used to be a couple of implementations of the API, such as Mesa, or Iris GL, which was the progenitor of OpenGL.

When you mention the Python OpenGL API, or C# OpenGL API, or a library like Java's LWJGL, those are actually bindings, which simply call call the C api using whatever native binding mechanism that language supports.


I was very afraid that I got something wrong in my post, but I'm pretty damn sure that OpenGL isn't a C based API. It is only a specification, and although the Python OpenGL is a binding, if hardware vendors were to make their implementations for those languages instead of C, then it is no longer a binding, and it is the OpenGL Python API. Note that I don't know (and don't think) that it'd be possible with Python. Anyway, the OpenGL C API is only the headers, the hardware vendors provide the implementation for these headers.
Also, aren't hardware vendors making implementations for OpenGL ES Java API for Android? But I digress. If I'm wrong on this, then I'm wrong and I'll research it until I get it right, but I'm pretty sure this is the way it works.
Currently trying to contribute to the Desurium project.

Macro, then refine.

#14 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8152

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

Wow, that is splitting some pretty tiny semantic hairs there.

You are safe calling OpenGL an API, as the standard itself *IS* defining the API that vendors implement. It is the API itself that is standardized!

Hell, even Kronus, the group regulating OpenGL says this: "OpenGL® is the most widely adopted 2D and 3D graphics API in the industry"

Since we're splitting hairs, it's Khronos Posted Image

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#15 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:37 AM

Jesus christ, how far off topic are we?

#16 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 17221

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:03 AM

Smilex, Serapth: You're way off topic -- please take it elsewhere (a new topic for example) if you'd like to continue your discussion on terminology. Additionally, please try to clean up your quote tags rather than letting them nest endlessly when engaging in a lengthy back-and-forth conversation. Posted Image

Edited by jbadams, 21 June 2012 - 03:06 AM.


#17 NEXUSKill   Members   -  Reputation: 446

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:13 AM

I've been in the industry for over 5 years, I got into it by following a GD career in a private institute, not that the institute itself means anything, It just allowed me to meet people already in the industry, work with and demonstrate my capacity and worth, so they recommended me.
In my experience most people get in that way. Its very rare to BE a professional game programmer before working at it, the work makes you a professional, not the other way around.

A lot other people get in by starting with an entry level position, QA being the most usual, and then demonstrating you have other skills.
Finally, whenever you have an interview the best way to prove you can make stuff, is having stuff made that you can take on a laptop and execute in front of the guy interviewing you, having an executable game (and the open code to back up that you made that, is half the battle, then you'll probably be queried on the tech and language of interest for whatever position they are looking for.

Make games, pick up a tech that gives you a head start and make something that works with it, Unity and game maker are good choices, if you want to go more heavy on programming, take XNA or AS.
Game making is godlike

LinkedIn profile: http://ar.linkedin.com/pub/andres-ricardo-chamarra/2a/28a/272



#18 antiHUMANDesigns   Members   -  Reputation: 58

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:37 PM

Well, what's most important is that you're very good at one thing, such as graphics or physics. If you focus on getting really good in one field, you can get hired.

I'm no expert, but I assume most companies have people working in different fields of programming, so being a "programmer" is not really a job description. You'll probably at least have people separated into working on a game engine while others programmers work on gameplay. If you're the best at programming physics, I think you'll get hired even if you're only moderately good at programming graphics and such.




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