Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Has the game industry reached a point of saturation?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
47 replies to this topic

#1 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:30 AM

Change and unpridictability were the features of the game industry 15 years ago... Change came fast in tools, the way of work, the hardware, the support and the programming languages.
Lately it is seen that game industry is stable, or can I say 'stagnent'??

We keep using the good old libraries... and in terms of programming too, we started with ASM, went through C, and ended up at C++ (the point of saturation).
Will in predictable future , there could be a move from stagnent principles? Or will see some interesting upsurps?

Sponsor:

#2 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6871

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:22 AM

Cars are still build with mostly 4 wheels, so, must every single concept evolve to get better ?

#3 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:24 AM

yes man, automobile industry is practically stagnent now....

#4 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:26 AM

what do you think about the positive changes in vedio game technology, both hardware and software wise??
I would argue that the changes will be of less importance.
We will continue to see middlewares, tools and design in upgraded form only, nothing new.
Going to the programmers' way, we will continue to see C++ as the game engine development tool... And lua & stuff for logic for a very very long time, if not our lifetime. We would draw with same old directx and opengl.....

#5 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 28451

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:40 AM

Video game software is going through a very rapid advancement right now... I'd go as far to call it a renaissance.

The tasks that are being accomplished with the "same old C++/DirectX/etc" are completely different than tasks we were using them for 10 years ago.

Screwdrivers can be used to put together furniture, but they can also be used to build space-shuttles. The tools that are used pale in comparison to the feats accomplished by the machines they are used to build.

So, no.

yes man, automobile industry is practically stagnent now....

What about the fact that the first all-electric (no petrol/gas required), mass-produced, vehicles are currently in production? That's pretty a revolutionary milestone to be alive for! What about materials research that will have us "growing" car chassis' from synthetic DNA in a completely pollution-free and energy efficient process? What about windsheilds that absorb photons to refill your battery, or levitating flywheels that store energy that's usually wasted by your brakes?

Edited by Hodgman, 06 July 2012 - 03:45 AM.


#6 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:50 AM

@Hodgman I must complement that you appear to be intelligent guy...

So you are saying that we will be using direct x/ c++ for a lifetime of anybody reading this??

#7 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 28451

Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:23 AM

At the end of the day, all your COBOL/C++98/C++11/C#/Lua code ends up as machine code running inside the CPU. Does this mean that we're stuck in the 1950's, because that's when CPU's were invented? You could write your game in assembly if you wanted to, and still do something new, that's never been done before! It would just be harder -- all that new tools do is make the process of building something easier, they generally don't make new things possible/impossible, just easier/harder to accomplish.

All that DirectX and OpenGL do is let you control the machine code running inside the GPU. Just because we used DirectX 10 years ago, doesn't mean that we can't do new things with it. Look at the amount of computer graphics research that is being published each year -- all of those papers are presenting some kind of new idea, which you can implement using old tools -- just how in the 60's they used screwdrivers to get to the moon.

Edited by Hodgman, 06 July 2012 - 04:25 AM.


#8 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:29 AM

@hodgman You actually are good...

Yes, people will use a screwdriver for eternity... Can this be a case in computers too? By your stunning refrence, can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??

#9 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6871

Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:37 AM

just how in the 60's they used screwdrivers to get to the moon.

+1

can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??

You can say, that the development of a single language or library, like C or zlib, is stagnant, but to derive that technologies like id tech X will be stagnant too, because they use old languages/libs/tools is nonsense.

#10 turch   Members   -  Reputation: 590

Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:38 AM

So you are saying that we will be using direct x/ c++ for a lifetime of anybody reading this??


Yes, people will use a screwdriver for eternity... Can this be a case in computers too? By your stunning refrence, can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??


The DirectX and OpenGL we use now are very different from what we used in the past. They may still be going by the same brand names, but they are different tools that have been changing and evolving. Even something as stable as C++ is undergoing pretty dramatic changes with the new standard being released and gradually implemented.

Graphics cards are just starting to mature as general purpose massively parallel processors, rather than specialized pieces of hardware that are designed to do one thing.

Edited by turch, 06 July 2012 - 06:46 AM.


#11 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:46 AM

hey, I understand that the hardware, middleware, libraries and C++ is maturing... But it is not new. I am not criticising anything, and please dont take the word 'stagnant' as negetive.
All I want to say is, we are not creating anything new, just maturing the existing things. (and that may be a good thing). I am just pointing it out.

As for the id tech 6 and 7, (unreal engine 6, and put anything future), I just asked that if we are going to use existing(vigourosly maturing) things like C++11/opengl or something like x ??

#12 arkane7   Members   -  Reputation: 213

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

I seriously doubt any of these languages/libraries will ever become obsolete or unused in the future, especially C++

Even if better languages or tools come out, C++ has been the standard for a long time, and will always be used to some extent whether for educational purposes or for implementations


What do you want these "stagnant" innovations to do that they currently cannot accomplish? Why are you so hungry for some new tool or language to pop out and replace them?
Always improve, never quit.

#13 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 28451

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:16 AM

Why are you so hungry for some new tool or language to pop out and replace them?

That's a good point -- regardless of whether a new tool appears in the future, it's of great benefit for you to still study the tools that we have now.

e.g. We (almost) never write assembly any more, but the few guys in the office who can write assembly are extremely useful to have around when you've got a difficult debugging problem -- they can look at the assembly (output from your C++ code) as it's running on the CPU, look at the raw memory in hex-dumps, etc, and see whats going on at a completely different level, offering new insights to you.

Edited by Hodgman, 06 July 2012 - 10:33 AM.


#14 arkane7   Members   -  Reputation: 213

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:50 AM

Yes, just like learning assembly language. It isn't of practical use anymore, but it can provide a better knowledge to how the computer is really managing data and processing it, enabling the user to better manipulate and create what they want through the higher level languages.

That is why i think C++ will never truely die. It isn't overly abstract and doesn't hide ALL the details and allows a somewhat lower level control (correct me if I'm wrong)

I think the best thing that can be said here is this: We never truely understand where we are going until we understand where we have been.
Always improve, never quit.

#15 Narf the Mouse   Members   -  Reputation: 318

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

There's rocket packs and flying cars, too, if you have the money.

#16 DZee   Members   -  Reputation: 194

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

GPU's are getting more and more powerful, pushing the boundaries and limits of what seemed to be impossible a year or two ago. I don't think the game industry has reached a point of stagnation. That said, frameworks that decrease the amount of time spent on development are usually adopted by companies and don't change for some time because it's expensive and often deemed unreasonable by other departments. I'd also like to add that algorithm's that work are here to stay. Companies like CAE still use the C flight simulator written from specs in the 70's because it works. Why change a winning formula?

Edited by DZee, 06 July 2012 - 09:56 AM.

I "surf" the web, literally.


#17 hustlerinc   Members   -  Reputation: 169

Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:29 AM

How come noone mentioned HTML5 and browser technologies? That if something is a breath of fresh air to game developement. Taking the games straight to the browser, for easy access.

#18 dposton70   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:46 PM

The industry is very different then it was 15 years ago but, IMHO, the next 15 years are going to be even more exciting. :)

HTML5.
WinRT/Metro
"Cloud Stream" games (OnLive/Gaikai).
Explosion of gaming platforms (phone, tablet, GPS watches, Google Glasses).

Today I can interface my shoes with my PC/phone ( http://www.nike.com/us/en_us/c/training/nike-plus-training?rh=true ). This is begging for a platform game.
They're currently testing self-driving cars. What sort of games will people want to play in their cars with all the free time they now have?

If you're having a bad day, or you're "heads down" concentrating on a single project, it might feel stagnant. But take a look around, we're heading into the Diamond Age of gaming. :)


--- Posting this from work, so I'll give my company a plug ;) ---
"I work for GarageGames, home of the award winning line of Torque engines and a community of more than 150,000 independent game developers. Learn more about us at garagegames.com"

#19 Spirrwell   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

I think that the issue is simply that everything we have is built off of something and always will be. Every modern computer we have will always have the base machine code as Hodgman pointed out. I think the sense is that we have so much that is built off of an old foundation, and that we could make an entirely new foundation that would work better, but how could we get to that point without what we have now? Why not a computer that doesn't run on electricity whatsoever? With our current computer design, it would be impossible. Every device requires an energy source. A pencil is useless without the energy to use it. If you keep going back, every new thing was built off of a pre-existing concept. At one point there had to be absolutely nothing, so how do we go from nothing to an entire universe? How do we go from nothing to gravity, to chemicals? Chemicals that exist in our very computers today.

By all of this logic the universe has been stagnant for its entire existence. You could say that every game we have existed billions of years ago as just as scattered atoms. Either way, it came from something that was already in existence. I mean we could go back and start from scratch and redesign the way a computer works, but right now, this is what we have.

Edited by Spirrwell, 06 July 2012 - 05:31 PM.


#20 sankrant   Members   -  Reputation: 121

Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:03 PM


You all rock with good answers....

So to conclude myself, we will not be changing the basic tools of trade, but changing the methods and way 'how we do a problem'.... that sounds gold.
I would say to myself that the usage of C++ will not decline, but grow with new platforms..

What I liked the most is the example of a screwdriver.
I guess that id tech 6 or 7(put anything there) would also use C++.




Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS