7 replies to this topic

[ILoveJesus]

Basicaly I want to start a disucssion on the issue of doubting the final outcome of your game on any level for independant developers. I notice some days I imagine the final outcome of my game as being fun and innovative. Something that has never been done before. Other days I find myself filled with doubts and wondering if the past year has been a complete waste of time. I mean when I see the big picture I see that my game, when it is finished, may be something no one wants to buy or even worse, play. This is why i spend no more than 3 hours a day working on it. If I knew I could sell it I would work on it from morning to night. So how do I deal? I mean doubting could actually be realistic and maybe I should spend my time finding other ways to make money. I mean sure this is a hobby for me but it also a hope that maybe just maybe I could make a living doing this. The doubts of course hinder such an accomplishment from ever happening. So either I can be a dreamer and motivate myself to work hard on a game that I might be able to sell, or I can take the safe route and secure myself financially right here and right now and throw my dreams away. Sigh. Anyone else going through what I am going through?

[glhf]

Good post.

I am also doubting my GDD.

I can't tell you why though.

But that's because I'm pioneering into a new "genre" kindoff..

And it's impossible to create 100% perfect games to this genre of games.

I think my game is "as good is it can get" in this new "genre" but stil doubtful if this "genre" would even work out.

But it's like this with all speculating not even only in games.

If all speculating was 100% sure then everyone in the world with money could make shit loads of money so easy.

[SimonForsman]

I've definitly been there, allthough never with a game that i've spent more than a few days on, The key to avoid this kind of doubt really is to push out a prototype quickly.
If the prototype is fun you keep going, if its not fun you either start over with a new design or identify the flaws and fix them.

You shouldn't need more than a day or two to get a playable prototype for the key mechanics done (If its a complex game you can make multiple prototypes for different mechanics), Don't be afraid to use tools such as GameMaker to get the prototype(s) done.

Edited by SimonForsman, 08 July 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[glhf]

I've definitly been there, allthough never with a game that i've spent more than a few days on, The key to avoid this kind of doubt really is to push out a prototype quickly.
If the prototype is fun you keep going, if its not fun you either start over with a new design or identify the flaws and fix them.

'

I think this prototyping stuff depends from person to person really.
Some people have a lot better talent at therorising games and imagining playing it in their head.
To those that can't do this i can imagine it sounds like a joke but it's really not.

For example... in combat systems..
When I start a new game.. I always read up as much info on the game and abilities and everything before starting to fight..
I theorize as much of the fight as possible.. and I divide the fight up into opener.... fight.... finisher... and finisher only sometimes depending on the combat system and mechanics.
Most of the time the fights go exactly as I theorize them.. It's like programming a bot.
I never created bots.. but I think I would be able to create the best bots in the world if I did.
My friend is a human bot... without instructions.. he is just an average player... great aim, reflex etc...
But when I tell him what his strategy should be and what do in all kinda situations he is amazing...I
i love him more than all other players I team with because he has a natural talent for this.
He does everything I tell him to like if he was a bot... not mistakes at all. PERFECT soldier.

So if I can imagine a complex combat system and mechanics in my head and become a pro pvper by just pure theory.. (i acntually have a good record of being correct and being able to do and win everything i theorize) then lets assume you believe me becuase im not lying and sure theres the chance im lying for epeen but im anonumous here and dont care about reputation so not really any reason to lie. So you believe me.. then if I can theorize a complete and complex combat system and mechanics and be pro in it... dont u think i would be able to create a awesome GDD without prototyping it ?

[InternetFX]

I mean doubting could actually be realistic and maybe I should spend my time finding other ways to make money.

Doubt can be a healthy emotion. I would suggest, compare whether that doubt is a doubt of your game concept, or a doubt of your ability. If you doubt your ability, then "learn up", easily solved. If you doubt your game concept, then maybe you are onto something. Maybe your game needs an element or two that you haven't considered, and without those elements, the concept lacks. That's a healthy thought to have, and doubt may lead you to creating a better concept.

Think of games you enjoyed. Consider what made those games fun to you, down to those small elements. List them all, write them down. Then see if any of those elements fit into your game in some other form. You may find that one or more of those "fun aspects" fits, and could multiply into other related elements that bring overall fun.

Just some thoughts.

[Mratthew]

I'm with FX on this, target the doubt and use the community. Find peers, masters, members and friends you trust and respect and explain the doubt, they'll give you ideas if they can or at least let you know how legit the doubt is. I find the best thing to do when I'm doubting my design is to work on a different part of the design, games are big, even small ones and there is always something to do or to fix.

Lastly, document doubt. Blog the crap out of your designs even if its a private blog you will realize that you always have things you can fix on the game and as you approach the end of development you will start to get a clearer picture of how realistic certain doubts were. Because the only way to really know if its good or if it sucks, is to play it and be honest with yourself.

[lonewolff]

This is a really tough subject. I know as I am currently experiencing it myself and I could go on forever about it.

I think the key is what Mratthew say's. Bounce ideas and mini-concept demo applications off the community (probably even more so the latter). Ask us what we think of the 'character movement and control' (for example). We will soon tell you what needs improving, what feels right, what is outright wrong, etc..

Some things are a simple fix, some not so...

If you are anything like myself, it is so easy to become 'tunnel-visioned' by your own app, that you lose sight of what is right and what is wrong, what is fun and what is not.

The other thing to remember is to stamp out anything you find isn't right, wether it is some kind of jitter or outright crashes. People are always extremely fast in telling you what is wrong with your game, but are less likely to tell you what is 'right' about your game.

[jbadams]

dont u think i would be able to create a awesome GDD without prototyping it ?

We are NOT having that discussion with you again -- I'll ask everyone to please stay on topic and refrain from responding to this particular point. If you're interested in such a discussion, you're welcome to go through glhf's posting history to find one of the several times this has come up. We've had more than enough topics grind to a halt after trying to engage glhf on this particular topic. You can consider this an official moderator instruction.