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"Make Games, Not Engines".. But how?


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#21 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2102

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

To get started I think to myself, "Okay, start small!". So I come up with the idea of making pong, but when I start planning out how it is going to get programmed is when I run into trouble. I start thinking of how am I going to render the objects, GUI, and text, and also handle shaders, textures, etc. Then I start planning how to play audio. Then I start thinking about how I am going to handle the window and input.


That's a finished game, not a beginner learning "project".

Maybe I'm missing some points and posts, but start small isn't emphasised well enough. Pong is almost always mentioned. Some may get the notion that Pong should come right after "Hello World". I think you should start even smaller, it's just the very beginner stuff is not really specific or worth to mention. It doesn't have to be anything finished. Maybe some console program that prints something depending on input. Maybe a spinning cube with no user input. Just fractions of a game at a time, but "complete" programs in the sense of runnable executables.

Another opinion: "finished" game is overemphasized too. It's very good thing to finish stuff, but not your very first learning project. Don't finish it. Finish what's worth it.

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#22 Riztro   Members   -  Reputation: 240

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

To get started I think to myself, "Okay, start small!". So I come up with the idea of making pong, but when I start planning out how it is going to get programmed is when I run into trouble. I start thinking of how am I going to render the objects, GUI, and text, and also handle shaders, textures, etc. Then I start planning how to play audio. Then I start thinking about how I am going to handle the window and input.


That's a finished game, not a beginner learning "project".

Maybe I'm missing some points and posts, but start small isn't emphasised well enough. Pong is almost always mentioned. Some may get the notion that Pong should come right after "Hello World". I think you should start even smaller, it's just the very beginner stuff is not really specific or worth to mention. It doesn't have to be anything finished. Maybe some console program that prints something depending on input. Maybe a spinning cube with no user input. Just fractions of a game at a time, but "complete" programs in the sense of runnable executables.

Another opinion: "finished" game is overemphasized too. It's very good thing to finish stuff, but not your very first learning project. Don't finish it. Finish what's worth it.


Well actually I already know how to do 2D development so I have decided to go with some 3D things and I have gotten a triangle up and colored. I have tried to make a colored cube but I ran into some odd errors. But see I don't like just making random demos, I want to have a point to all this stuff so do you have any ideas of simple games I could make with simple concepts of graphics programming?

#23 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 14660

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:54 PM

There are literally thousands of game ideas out there. Pick one and clone it, or if that doesn't appeal to you, invent your own. That's the magic of all this; there's no recipe or ten-step procedure. Just choose something that sounds like it'd be fun to play, and learn to make it.

A version of Asteroids or Geometry Wars type gameplay with 3D-rendered models might be a good start, for instance.

#24 Peter Taylor   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:38 AM

@ApochPIQ - I agree, endless supply on the internet or games available to find new ideas.

I like the way the conversation is encouraging about taking existing ideas as a model to practice / refine programming skills however my question is if I may ask, how can someone attempt these concepts with concerns of copyright or trademarked related ideas thus avoid (so to speak) being sued?

Is it safe to say I quoted the source of concept/art/programming code and where these ideas came from as would a University student addresses to avoid plagiarism. Would this constitute safe practice?

Thanks.

#25 doeme   Members   -  Reputation: 691

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:29 AM

I like the way the conversation is encouraging about taking existing ideas as a model to practice / refine programming skills however my question is if I may ask, how can someone attempt these concepts with concerns of copyright or trademarked related ideas thus avoid (so to speak) being sued?


I'm not a lawyer, but as long as you don't just use the concept it for educational purposes you should be on the safe side. Of course just copying the code using the original artwork and texts is a no-go even then. I'm not sure how much the basic concept behind a game is copyrightable anyway. But this is better discussed in the Business & Law forum there is even an old thread about this: http://www.gamedev.n...a-game-concept/

Edited by doeme, 20 July 2012 - 02:58 AM.


#26 Aldacron   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 3104

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:34 AM

Is it safe to say I quoted the source of concept/art/programming code and where these ideas came from as would a University student addresses to avoid plagiarism. Would this constitute safe practice?


Ideas aren't copyrightable. Code and asserts are. Using existing code or assets without permission is going to open the door to trouble. Quoting the source won't change that. So you can clone any game out there, but you'll have to do it with using your own code and assets, or that which is freely available (open source code, royalty-free assets, etc..).

#27 Fredericvo   Members   -  Reputation: 278

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:00 AM

Do you mean even the little question mark block that you can kick out coins from have not been copyrighted? Or little turtles whose shell you can grab to throw it back at them?

#28 Riztro   Members   -  Reputation: 240

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

Oh I have another question. I can't decide whether or not I should make smaller 3D games to gain skill or incrementally add to a bigger 3D game. Like say I want to make a voxel sandbox game, should I just create a cube, texture it, then make more cubes, etc and then increment development? Or should I make a game that only uses a few cubes and then learn from that and then try to make a bigger game that is more complex say with like a terrain generator for cubes? Because then sure I end up with more games but that is also less time spent on the game I actually want to make. Which method do you all think is better? Building up my learning while adding to one large project or building up my learning by starting small projects and then incrementally making bigger ones?

#29 Peter Taylor   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:49 PM

@Riztro Perhaps using Trello @ www.trello.com could help you to put all the ideas or project you had in mind onto a board, and allow yourself to work on it in small steps. I have been using this for a while, heck it even helps me sort out what I need for baby stuff for the extra family member with my family!

Let this board give you a big picture of the game you had in mind about small cubes on one card, another card for texture with some ideas about it, another card for movement, of cubes, etc. This may help you without feeling overwhelming as I can sense in the questions you asking. The additional thing about Trello, it has some predefined lists to hold these cards into good meanful categories to be done, current work and done! piles.

If your ready about this game, you can enable sharing with other people later by inviting them to see what you have accomplished.

Hope this suggestion helps.
Peter.

#30 Aldacron   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 3104

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:57 PM

Do you mean even the little question mark block that you can kick out coins from have not been copyrighted? Or little turtles whose shell you can grab to throw it back at them?


That's exactly what I mean.

#31 Riztro   Members   -  Reputation: 240

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:58 PM

@Riztro Perhaps using Trello @ www.trello.com could help you to put all the ideas or project you had in mind onto a board, and allow yourself to work on it in small steps. I have been using this for a while, heck it even helps me sort out what I need for baby stuff for the extra family member with my family!

Let this board give you a big picture of the game you had in mind about small cubes on one card, another card for texture with some ideas about it, another card for movement, of cubes, etc. This may help you without feeling overwhelming as I can sense in the questions you asking. The additional thing about Trello, it has some predefined lists to hold these cards into good meanful categories to be done, current work and done! piles.

If your ready about this game, you can enable sharing with other people later by inviting them to see what you have accomplished.

Hope this suggestion helps.
Peter.


So you suggest just breaking up a bigger project? :) No small projects?




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