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Alternative minecraft


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#21 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2564

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:18 AM

I think 1/8 blocks would make it too slow if you want a large world...

But it would be cool if it represented damaged blocks not as different texture but by making it look like theres chunks cut away.

Lets say it has the damage value, and based on that, if its damaged and youre close to it (!), it makes it look like a 3*3*3 chunk of blocks with some taken away depending on surroundings and damage (and different texturing based on block/damage)


If you go farther away it would just show it as a normal cube but different texture to represent damage.


Not sure if it could be done using shaders to make really deep looking holes and stuff, that might look better.

EDIT: random though, what it would look like if you used some nonlinear z division instead of a linear one? So that close objects get smaller slowly, but farther ones faster (so it kind of would represent some range with same precision and then quickly reduce precision over distance?)

Edited by Waterlimon, 12 July 2012 - 07:28 AM.

o3o


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#22 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 854

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:42 AM

the blocks don't need to have always 1/8 of the size, only when the difference is significant.

let's say that the default block has a size of 1*1*1.

when you punch that block with your tool, that block is swapped by a chunk of blocks that have a fraction of that size.

depending on the damage of the tool, the block is swapped by more or less blocks.

as an example, you hit a block with a spade, that block receives enough damage to be swapped for 8 new mini-blocks. some of those drop and are given to you, the others stay on the game world.

oh, silly me, when i've said 1/8 of the size, i wanted to say that one block would be swapped for 8 other blocks.

an example of the effect (appropriately made on minecraft, but not by me...) :

Posted Image

also, there's a mod for minecraft that makes the block damage permanently, this is the effect given by that mod:

Posted Image

#23 JonBMN   Members   -  Reputation: 702

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

what if you make each block have, say, 1/8 of the minecraft block size, then, when you punch the block with your pickaxe, you break more than one block at the time, creating a destruction effect, then, for placement, you can make the player capable of crafting a bunch of those little blocks in a larger block, that in reality it's only a bunch of the little ones (i think i'm not being clear here, basically, the player has the option to place 8 little blocks in the shape of a larger one, or place the normal 1/8 sized block)

this way terrain would be much more detailed and the game more realistic, it's possible with the technology of your choice to archive this?


I like this idea for the fact it would make it so you could still have stacks of 64 blocks but not be overwhelmed by the weight because they are about an 1/8th of the weight. Saying that, the destruction idea is very good, but maybe realistic mining with the need for structural supports in your cave that make it so if you don't have them it will collapse on you. This could be a little much, but I think it would be the most realistic mining experience.

#24 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:00 PM

Good idea about dividing blocks then you're close to them. I'll see what i can do. Maybe 3 levels of detail. For blocks that are further than 75 blocks, no divisions, for blocks further that 20 divide into 8 smaller, 10 - > 20 division into 64. 0->10 - 512 But there's a problem with saving those divisions on hard disc....

#25 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 854

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:14 PM

well, i don't know the algorithm, but i guess you could save some kind of metadata. simple save the whole block, then use the block metadata to specify what parts are missing. (or present, who knows)

you can make it so each mini-block has an index, and you save the index that are missing, something like:

int[] block = { -1 } //all the mini-blocks are here, the block aren't subdivided.
int[] block2 = {0,25,128} // the mini-blocks that have the index 0, 25 and 128 are not present in the current block (likely picked by the player) and should not be drawn.

where this is storage friendly, i can't say anything about general performance without a well defined algorithm and some tests...

#26 Iron Chef Carnage   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1840

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

You might want to take a look at Minecraft mods, there are a bunch and many are very clever. Youtube has a few hours' worth of well-presented footage that spotlights scores of mods, some more interesting than others.

Minecraft clones are popular--XBLA is riddled with them--but they're all trying to do the same thing. It's gotten to when the phrase, "Voxel-based game" is synonymous with "Minecraft clone". They'll add in a couple features, or change a couple things about how blocks move, but ultimately it's the equivalent of a Minecraft mod that's built on a crappier game than Minecraft. ShawnCowles' idea for a voxel world that's largely open space and is built on freedom of movement, taking a holding real estate and difficulty that scales with travel distance is a great one. It's fresher and more imaginative than the thousands of ideas that start with, "It'll be like Minecraft, except..." That ellipsis can be followed with anything from, "with machineguns," to "in space," to "gravity is sideways," to "projected on the surface of a tesseract."

I liked Minecraft, and I quit because it turned into work too quickly. The first couple nights can be tense, since you're underequipped and outmatched, but after only a short time you can be established in such a way that the only real challenges for you are beating the random number generator. At this point, I can be in a mob-proof house with the tools and supplies to thrive well before the sun sets on day 1, so I just dig for materials and go out during the day to ravage trees and pigs. The only task is finding enough diamond to get started mining obsidian. Then you grind blaze rods, then ender pearls, then you go finish the game. It's a brutal grind, and even when I just settle in to treat it as a creative sandbox and make some sweet mechanisms or architecture, I'm immediately ashamed when I see the stuff other people have done with it.

It needs more videogame. Shawn's scaling difficulty is a lot like my dream for MineCraft. I wanted the center of the world to be safe, on easy mode, with no mobs, no danger, and no valuable resources. As you venture farther afield, you start finding better stuff, but you also are beset by greater danger, and you get into a sort of Diablo-style gear/challenge economy, where wild expeditions into the distance are foolhardy, and will almost always cost you more than you gain, but grinding at home grants trivial rewards. I'd prefer a wider array of gear and crafting, maybe even along the lines of Terraria.

#27 boogyman19946   Members   -  Reputation: 1063

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:40 PM

Iron Chef, I think you've truly hit the point home on the grinding. After you set yourself up (and by set yourself up, I mean, you don't even have to build a house. Just dig a cave, make some charcoal, and you're set.), all you do is grind and grind. It becomes so mundane that sometimes, I put on something on Netflix and go dig in straight lines in my cave to get some cobble stone to keep building. I wish the game was like Nazi Zombies where they can bust into your house in some number of ways and they come after you deliberately every night, not only when they see you. That would be pretty awesome.
"If highly skilled generalists are rare, though, then highly skilled innovators are priceless." - ApochPiQ

My personal links :)
- Khan Academy - For all your math needs
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- C++ Standard Library Reference - For some of your C++ needs ^.^

#28 jefferytitan   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2125

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:12 PM

I think one key to a different feel is making it so "heaps of digging" != success. If that were true humanity would live underground. It's effectively overpowered for most styles of games. Now if digging deeper than a couple of metres was well-nigh impossible in most places, useful stuff was very rare, exploring underground was dangerous and caves were somewhat "porous" to creatures with different body types than yourself (e.g. small or can cling to ceiiling)... it would be more balanced. You could dig traps or a moat to give you some advantage over monsters (but not an impregnable castle), you could go on dangerous exploration missions underground, you could hide from larger creatures in caves, but not do the excesses. Maybe go guerilla warfare, e.g. you can craft interesting ways to kill the enemy, but build any structure too big and they'll be swarming all over you.

#29 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:35 PM

I decided to make normal voxels 1x1x1, breakable into 8x8x8 which makes 512 (of course allow terrain generator to use smaller blocks). It is actually possible (with LOD), and with good saving alghorytm, it's even possible to save.
Other ideas i liked:
-Shader effects
-Safe game at the beginning, becoming harder
-Monsters breaking through blocks to kill you
-Player is not able to dig deeper than a couple of meters in the beginning.
-Take some ideas from Minecraft Mods
Thanks for all. Project status: Will be started next week.

Edited by Kiel368, 12 July 2012 - 11:36 PM.


#30 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 854

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:28 AM

-Player is not able to dig deeper than a couple of meters in the beginning.


Base this on the tool the player is using.

instead of a world constructed only from stone, make lower blocks of harder material, so the player will be forced to upgrade his/her tools to dig that blocks.

#31 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:04 AM

Maybe i'll made regional stone, meaning particular biom is connected with particular type of stone.

#32 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2564

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:20 AM

Dont make a limit to dig depth, but make it more realistic. In real life digging is slowww, you got to take the stone and dirt somewhere, have supports, supply of air, watch out for water leaking in and so on.

o3o


#33 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

What's about a very different block system? Like a fuel stand or kilogram...

For example:
You can have 1 kg Sand, but to transport it you need a bin, for a bin you need 5 kg iron. Iron is only available as ore.
For 5 kg iron you need 7 kg Ore and fire... For fire you need etc...

I think kg or something similar is a good choice, because it would be really "easy" to implement half blocks or different blocks like triangles. Also it makes it more independet from the blocks himself.

But there is a big problem... I think many people don't like something mathematical like kilogramm.

With Triangle blocks you could also implement good transports like cars.. Posted Image

Wish you luck for your project!

PS: I also had the same idea one year ago... but stopped because it would be only a minecraft clone Posted Image

Edited by omercan, 13 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.

Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language

#34 JonBMN   Members   -  Reputation: 702

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:06 PM

What's about a very different block system? Like a fuel stand or kilogram...

For example:
You can have 1 kg Sand, but to transport it you need a bin, for a bin you need 5 kg iron. Iron is only available as ore.
For 5 kg iron you need 7 kg Ore and fire... For fire you need etc...

I think kg or something similar is a good choice, because it would be really "easy" to implement half blocks or different blocks like triangles. Also it makes it more independet from the blocks himself.

But there is a big problem... I think many people don't like something mathematical like kilogramm.

With Triangle blocks you could also implement good transports like cars.. Posted Image

Wish you luck for your project!

PS: I also had the same idea one year ago... but stopped because it would be only a minecraft clone Posted Image


You have a great idea, but to me if your going to try and play a real life version. You should at least take the time to learn a little math and become that much more immersed. Props

#35 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

I believe, when i collect a set of great ideas, and make the game realistic it will be almost nothing like minecraft. Posted Image

#36 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

I believe, when i collect a set of great ideas, and make the game realistic it will be almost nothing like minecraft. Posted Image


Hehe yes Posted Image

You have a great idea, but to me if your going to try and play a real life version. You should at least take the time to learn a little math and become that much more immersed. Props


You are maybe right... I only thought many kids (between 10 and 14/16) don't really like Math (I know many people like that ;) ), but this was only my opinion :D

I also have a "good" story but it does not handle humans like Steve from Minecraft and contains no fantasy, more normal adventure without something like magic and sci-fi.

Unfortunately I can not write it down here, I just have not enough time :)

Regards
omercan
Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language

#37 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 854

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:51 PM

Just one thought, create a mod API, please.

this is the major flaw of minecraft. you can't implement every single idea, but other people can.

#38 JonBMN   Members   -  Reputation: 702

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:00 PM

You are maybe right... I only thought many kids (between 10 and 14/16) don't really like Math (I know many people like that ;) ), but this was only my opinion Posted Image

I also have a "good" story but it does not handle humans like Steve from Minecraft and contains no fantasy, more normal adventure without something like magic and sci-fi.

Unfortunately I can not write it down here, I just have not enough time Posted Image

Regards
omercan


Very true, but at the same time if you were to implement the math, which don't get me wrong, I didn't like math very much for years. When it came to games though, I would enjoy it because it actually relates to something. Your not just sitting in a classroom going over algebraic equations just to learn them. Could have just been me, but I feel like a lot of kids are like that.

#39 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:43 PM

Yes you are right JonBMN, some of my friends hate math but if it is useful they love it. I think this is the normal way of life...

A good mod api is on my mind one of the important parts of the game! Make it modable and maybe use XML for nearly everything!

Sorry for not using quotes currently, currently I use my PSP and it is horrible to talk in the web Posted Image
Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language

#40 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

Yes you are right JonBMN, some of my friends hate math but if it is useful they love it. I think this is the normal way of life...

A good mod api is on my mind one of the important parts of the game! Make it modable and maybe use XML for nearly everything!

Sorry for not using quotes currently, currently I use my PSP and it is horrible to talk in the web Posted Image
Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language




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