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Alternative minecraft


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#41 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

Yes you are right JonBMN, some of my friends hate math but if it is useful they love it. I think this is the normal way of life...

A good mod api is on my mind one of the important parts of the game! Make it modable and maybe use XML for nearly everything!

Sorry for not using quotes currently, currently I use my PSP and it is horrible to talk in the web Posted Image
Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language

Sponsor:

#42 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2634

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:58 PM

If mods are added there should be a central place to download them from (ingame?) and be easy to install. (also dicided into UI/SP/MP mods?)

I dont like mods because they make everyone have a different game, which ruins most multiplayer activity AND might feel like cheating for single player stuff :c

So it would be important for them to be as easy and official as possible, and if i use a mod to add more buttons on the screen it shouldnt stop me from playing multiplayer, and they should automatically turn off if i lets say join a server which doesnt support them.


Maybe they should be scripts so when i join a server it can send its mod scripts to me and have them "installed" temporarily in no time.

o3o


#43 diegzumillo   Members   -  Reputation: 235

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:44 PM

Check Minecraft's inspiration: Infiniminer. Might help seed new ideas.

#44 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:01 PM

Sorry for no posts from three days, but i wasn't able to write, becouse i wasn't able to use my connection.

Anyway, I think easily installed mods and official mod server, mods created by XML are very good ideas, but remember that there is only me (now) and i probably won't be able to handle all this in a single version, so the first version will be very basic.

P.S.:It's possible that i'll start working on this game tomorrow (2012-07-16).

#45 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 855

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

only you? i'm seeing lots of people ready to help on this thread, including me Posted Image

as of the mod API, XML would limit much of the power of the API, maybe it'll be good to describe new blocks, but to describe new functionality it would just plain suck...

in what language you are going to program this? plain old C++?

well, C# has a extensibility framework (the Managed Extensibility Framework - A.K.A. MEF) that makes writing plugins as easy as writing a hello world program, for both ends. I don't know if C++ has something like that though Posted Image

#46 omercan   Members   -  Reputation: 370

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

You don't need to have all features in the first release :)
It is one of your goals... use it for motivation... :D
Reading, Reading, Reading... why do you read not more?
I have a blog: omercan1993.wordpress.com look there for more content :)
And I also do some art: omercan1993.deviantart.com
And whats about the Pear3DEngine? Never heard of it? Go and look!
Yeah, and currently I do this: SimuWorld

PS: Please look at this poll on my blog about scripting languages: A opinion poll about scripting language

#47 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:16 AM

I'm not going to write it in c++, becouse it is old.
I'm have already written voxel engine in c#, but c# is incompatible with Android, PS and so on.

I'm going to write it using WebGL and JavaScript with HTML5.
This game must work on every mobile device and every computer.

P.S:This is my first serious project in WebGL, so it'd take some time until the initial version is ready.

#48 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 855

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:16 AM

Mozilla Firefox - WebGL has been enabled on all platforms that have a capable graphics card with updated drivers since version 4.0.[12] Mozilla Firefox 8.0 and newer versions use Cross-Origin Resource Sharing (CORS) to control all WebGL cross-domain textures.[13][14]
Google Chrome - WebGL has been enabled on all platforms that have a capable graphics card with updated drivers since version 9.[15] Google Chrome 13.0 and newer versions use Cross-Origin Resource Sharing (CORS) to control all WebGL cross-domain textures.[16]
Safari - Safari 5.1 and newer versions installed on Mac OS X Lion and Mac OS X Snow Leopard implemented support for WebGL, which is disabled by default.[17][18][19][20][21]
Opera - WebGL has been implemented in Opera 11 and 12.[22][23]
Internet Explorer - Microsoft has not announced any plans to support WebGL. The Chrome Frame and IEWebGL[24] plugins provide options to add support for WebGL to Internet Explorer 6.0 and newer versions, although these plugins are not supported or endorsed by Microsoft.

Mobile Browsers
Nokia N900 - WebGL is available in the stock microB browser from the PR1.2 firmware update onwards.[25]
BlackBerry PlayBook - WebGL is available via WebWorks and browser in PlayBook OS 2.0[26]
Firefox for mobile - WebGL is available for Android devices in unstable builds since early 2011.[27]
The Sony Ericsson Xperia range of Android smartphones have had WebGL capabilities following a firmware upgrade.[28]
Opera Mobile 12 final supports WebGL (on Android only).[29]


well, maybe not every device and computer... you are going to have a hard time with this, but if this will be written in javascript, then Mods won't be a problem...

EDIT: included the mobile browsers... i'm not seeing the iphone on the list...

Edited by Mito, 16 July 2012 - 05:17 AM.


#49 ShawnCowles   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:18 AM

This game must work on every mobile device and every computer.


I think you're holding yourself back with that statement. A computer can handle much more than a mobile device. If you aim to have an identical experience across all platforms then the computer version won't stack up well against other computer offerings.

I would recommend you take another look at C# though. Using c# gives you Windows and Xbox platforms right off the start, and Mono (open source implementation of c#) has been ported to iOS and Android.

#50 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 855

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

mono doesn't implement the XNA nor DirectX APIs... the solution here is to have one code base for each device, each on the devices native language of choice. objective C for IPhone, Java for Android and C++/C# for windows and Xbox. if you want to target MAC and linux, the PC version would be better in JAVA, but JAVA is really slow for this application... the WebGL one can't rely on Javascript for the game logic, it's too slow and implementation dependent.

My suggestion? do a multiplayer version. Plain and simple. This way you can use the server for the heavy processing and WebGL for the client.

another problem would be the inputs. you can't just put mobile devices in the same baseline as PC/MAC. Mouse and keyboard are much better for this type of game than touch or Gamepads. Have you Played Minecraft on the xbox? it's much harder to do anything.

#51 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:24 AM

So what language/platform do you suggest?
I'd be nice if game could be run on Windows, Mac, Linux and Android. Possibly iOS or PS.
I thought WebGL would be the best, becouse html5 and javascript will have a great future and in one or two years they may be very powerful.
But now I have no idea. HELP!

#52 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 855

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

As i know, there's none language that runs "as is" in all those platforms. if you are trying to maintain the same code base across the many platforms as possible, Java is a choice, but it may be slow unless you know how to optimize it...

Mono has the TAO framework (http://www.mono-project.com/Tao) that i just come across, may be useful, as Mono runs on MAC, Linux, Windows, iOS and Android, not sure about Windows Phone thought... Theoretically, the same code base compiles on the Mono compiler and in the .Net compiler with some restrictions, so you can create your game in Mono for all platforms, but in windows you can compile it using the C# compiler (csc.exe) so your windows players don't need to download Mono and receive benefit from the JIT optimization.

#53 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

I'm still rather interested in WebGL. I don't think it's very slow (faster than Java Posted Image ). It rather depends on user graphics hardware (WebGL is hardware accelerated). I know that writing a big game in JavaScript is not a good idea, but I have some support, wchich helps me keep my code clean.

Implementation dependent? Not really. The only condition is to write solid underlaying code, wchich will be supported by most browsers and perform such basic tasks like initialising WebGL,Shader communication, etc. I will test every change in all browsers I'd like to run the game in and eliminate errors.

You may say i'm mad, but if i succeed, i'll be the first person, used WebGL for some serious task.
If I'll find it impossible, i'll just rewrite it to other language.

P.S:We'd live in caves if we do not experiment.

I'll apprecciate anyone, who will be so brave to help me! Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

P.S2:Check this out: http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/sproingies/?f=webgl

Edited by Kiel368, 16 July 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#54 Mito   Members   -  Reputation: 855

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:49 PM

Well, with this sample i only managed to get 7 fps in chrome... maybe is the work computer, will check again when i get home...

Experimenting is always good, but i really recommend that you try to write the game logic in a language that is easier to debug.

If you got a type mistake in the middle of your javascript logic, you will have a bad time... maybe try Lint: http://www.javascriptlint.com/

I'll try to find a good javascript IDE for you. One with Intelisense.

Some suggestions can be found here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/209126/good-javascript-ide-with-jquery-support

I personally want to try aptana: http://www.aptana.com/products/studio3

For the WebGL part, this thread has some really good IDEs, i liked FractalLab: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5593274/tools-for-glsl-editing

Hope that helped, even if a little, i'm looking forward to learn WebGL, so maybe i can help you one day Posted Image

#55 diegzumillo   Members   -  Reputation: 235

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

Have you tried Unity? It's very flexible, easy and works in many platforms, including browser and mobile.

#56 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

I don't like unity. Unity is designed for stardard FPS games, and has mechanics working only with them. If i want to write a voxel game i need to perform as little amout of operations, as only possible and unity3d will perform all actions as in FPS, that are unnecessary, which will only slow down my game. Believe me - I tried and didn't succeed.
I like to have an eye on all my code. From initializing graphics to drawing GUI or sending player a message. I don't like if i write only a part of code, becouse i can't customize all low-level code for my type of game. Unity 3D is too general purpose engine for this type of game. Sorry.

#57 diegzumillo   Members   -  Reputation: 235

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

I don't like unity. Unity is designed for stardard FPS games, and has mechanics working only with them. If i want to write a voxel game i need to perform as little amout of operations, as only possible and unity3d will perform all actions as in FPS, that are unnecessary, which will only slow down my game. Believe me - I tried and didn't succeed.
I like to have an eye on all my code. From initializing graphics to drawing GUI or sending player a message. I don't like if i write only a part of code, becouse i can't customize all low-level code for my type of game. Unity 3D is too general purpose engine for this type of game. Sorry.


I understand If you need more freedom, but saying unity is designed for standard fps is underestimating it. I've wrote a marching cubes algorithm for voxels myself, using unity.

#58 Kiel368   Members   -  Reputation: 215

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

So you're good at it. Send me the demo if you can. But i still think that unity3d is not a perfect tool for voxel games.

P.S.:I'd love to see this code. You do not have to show it to me... but i'd love to.

#59 diegzumillo   Members   -  Reputation: 235

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:04 PM

So you're good at it


Not really, I used code available on the internet, just adapted to run in unity. Too bad I didn't keep any record of that! But a youtube search for 'unity marching cubes' shows that a lot of people pulled this off, you can check those out :)

I do have some videos of a more recent project of mine using Unity. It's also a very uncommon functionality, so it may serve as an illustration to its flexibility. It's a navigation system for large crowds, that works by calculating 2d vector fields over the walkable area. These are old versions, it looks less crappy now.


It's not as flexible as making your own engine, but I still recommend getting familiar with Unity.. if you have projects that won't be compromised by its limitations, it can be a real time saver.

#60 riuthamus   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5775

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:13 AM

Creating a voxel project myself, i can attest that there is nothing like creating your own engine. Just understand that you are in a world of hurt and it will be very time consuming. There have been many helpfull people on this forum though that have eased the process.

Essentially your going to have to manage some very serious systems and depending on what you use for your backend will really depend on the limitations you run into. We had some serious issues with running on XNA and decided to port over to SlimDX, slimdx is fairly new so there is limited documentation on alot of the more advanced features that it can control. DX11 removed the ability for us to load models using the DX9 method so we had to find the collada loader and modify it so it would work with animations and textures. After 4 months of serious development we finally have something worth showing, but we have a long road ahead of us before we are even close to what one would call a playable game.

So, my suggestions is, find the base system that will support everything you are trying to do. If you dont know what you are trying to do than you really need to define that first because the rest of the stuff you will need will be 100% dependant upon that. You will waste months if you go to code something and realize the tools you are using do not support the goals of your game.

Anyway, figure I would give some friendly advice. If you have any questions please feel free to let me know and we can answer them as best as we know. We have been down the road of most of the voxel based complexites and just now are moving into making 3d objects work within the block based worled. ( got some interseting ideas to do with that ! ) Good luck!




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