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#1 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:03 PM

So the models I'm aware of are:

-Paid apps
-In app purchases
-Ad revenue

Unless the app is amazing, from what I've read, you won't get many sales or plays on a paid app, as a general rule.

In app purchases seems to be very profitable if the game is good.

Ad revenue seems to be mixed, you get a lot of people playing the app for free, but it takes hundreds of thousands of impressions to make a thousand bucks.

I'm leaning towards admob, but honestly I don't really enjoy the big banners covering the screen, or the absolutely despicable games they promote in the ads.

So I was considering something else, out of curiousity mainly, I can render images of ads to 3d billboards in my game (in 3d space, not covering the screen), and when the user touches the ad/model it launches my website full of ads. So why would anyone click the items in game to load the ads? I was figuring you reward the player in game for launching the ads, like a random chance at getting a good item/gold/whatever.

I tested it on my kindle fire, and touching the ad launches the website just fine, so now I'm wondering if I load it up with adsense or if there's some other ad network I don't know about that pays you for sending people to it. I kinda like the idea of my own ad site since I could control what's shown. Say there's 10 ads on the page, each time a user clicks it I'd get 10 impressions right?

What do you think? Any other ideas? Or should I just go with admob?

Edited by lmbarns, 20 July 2012 - 07:04 PM.


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#2 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3267

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:46 AM

Unless the app is amazing, from what I've read, you won't get many sales or plays on a paid app, as a general rule.

In app purchases seems to be very profitable if the game is good.

Ad revenue seems to be mixed, you get a lot of people playing the app for free, but it takes hundreds of thousands of impressions to make a thousand bucks.

I'm leaning towards admob,


Without meaning to sound mean...does this mean your game is not good...or is it a case that you are unsure and are thus assuaging your doubt by seeking an alternate path of revenue?

Edit: What I mean by this..Is you should not necessarily discount yourself out of the first 2 revenue models, or indeed any other model without at least examining in more detail whether your game will stand up. I don't know your game so I can't comment any opinion on it but at the very least you could always do what Tom suggests so many times...Make a decision grid. Look at the competition existing in each of the sectors. Get feedback on your game. Don't discount yourself before the race has started.

Edited by Stormynature, 21 July 2012 - 07:55 AM.


#3 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:49 AM


Unless the app is amazing, from what I've read, you won't get many sales or plays on a paid app, as a general rule.

In app purchases seems to be very profitable if the game is good.

Ad revenue seems to be mixed, you get a lot of people playing the app for free, but it takes hundreds of thousands of impressions to make a thousand bucks.

I'm leaning towards admob,


Without meaning to sound mean...does this mean your game is not good...or is it a case that you are unsure and are thus assuaging your doubt by seeking an alternate path of revenue?

Edit: What I mean by this..Is you should not necessarily discount yourself out of the first 2 revenue models, or indeed any other model without at least examining in more detail whether your game will stand up. I don't know your game so I can't comment any opinion on it but at the very least you could always do what Tom suggests so many times...Make a decision grid. Look at the competition existing in each of the sectors. Get feedback on your game. Don't discount yourself before the race has started.


This was a general question not tied to any game. I have 2 games I'm working on, 1 an rpg which I will sell for a couple bucks, the other is a kids game which I don't want to show ads to zynga crapware in. Either way I was considering releasing both versions, a paid app with no ads, and a free app with ads.


Here's the idea I outlined a little better I'll paste here:

In my 3d android game I placed 3d models of billboards/signs. Touching a billboard in game loads a webpage for that particular ad topic, which consists of 10 or so adsense ads and webpage content I write upselling the ads.

The user can simply press the back button on the screen from the browser to go back to the game. I tested on the kindle fire and it's very smooth to launch the site and go back to the game.

The reason players would touch the ads in game is because each time they do a dice roll gives a small chance of getting a rare item/weapon/armor/resources/etc or just some gold for their character in game. But they don't have to. (But who walks past a slot machine without pulling the lever?)

Potentially people could just download and play the game without ever clicking ads, but those that did would be rewarded in game.


Reasoning:
I really despise some of the games promoted in admob advertisements, I'm targeting children, but regardless I just think some of those games are despicable, exploitative pieces of shit I don't want to support in any way. At least with adsense I can filter or tailor what ads are shown, since it's loading a webpage off my site I have more control of the ads shown and the rewards given in game.

The banner ads cover the screen and are annoying, my ads would be in a 3d world as part of the environment, a sign on a building, a billboard next to the road, etc even a soda can. It does take up the screen when it launches the browser, but I'd space it out and you hit 1 button to return to the game just like you hit 1 button to get rid of a popup ad in admob.


I think I can train the player to click 3d objects once they learn clicking an ad object in game is just like pulling the lever on a slot machine. I think I could get people to do it on their own. I'd put a cooldown so they can't spam it.

Now I need to figure out how 10 adsense ad impressions compare to a single admob advertisement, since if I'm going to take the hit for launching the web browser I'd like to get 10+ impressions from it.


Sorry to bold it I'm not mad just trying to emphasize key parts of the wall of text.

I guess the key parts are:
-Ads become part of the environment instead of covering screen as banners
-Clicking ad does a slot machine mechanic and rewards player in game
-Clicking ad launches page with a dozen ads and an article pushing the ads, pressing back takes you back to game
-I have complete control over what ads are shown on the page

The ad pages from the website would be tailored under a topic. So in game, for argument sake, pretend there's a sign saying "theme parks" clicking it launches a single webpage with a dozen ads and an article and ads from knox berry farm, disneyland, seaworld, cedar park, hershey park, etc etc etc. Clicking it also randomly rolls a reward in game for your character.

Edited by lmbarns, 21 July 2012 - 11:00 AM.


#4 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3267

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:16 AM

I'm assuming this is you

Can you guys poke some holes in this idea I'm fleshing out, or just give me some insight.
In my 3d android game I placed 3d models of billboards/signs. Touching a billboard in game loads a webpage for that particular ad topic, which consists of 10 or so adsense ads and webpage content I write upselling the ads.
The user can simply press the back button on the screen from the browser to go back to the game. I tested on the kindle fire and it's very smooth to launch the site and go back to the game.
The reason players would touch the ads in game is because each time they do a dice roll gives a small chance of getting a rare item/weapon/armor/resources/etc or just some gold for their character in game. But they don't have to. (But who walks past a slot machine without pulling the lever?)
Potentially people could just download and play the game without ever clicking ads, but those that did would be rewarded in game.
Reasoning: I really despise some of the games promoted in admob advertisements, I'm targeting children, but regardless I just think some of those games are despicable, exploitative pieces of shit I don't want to support in any way. At least with adsense I can filter or tailor what ads are shown, since it's loading a webpage off my site I have more control of the ads shown and the rewards given in game.
The banner ads cover the screen and are annoying, my ads would be in a 3d world as part of the environment, a sign on a building, a billboard next to the road, etc. It does take up the screen when it launches the browser, but I'd space it out and you hit 1 button to return to the game just like you hit 1 button to get rid of a popup ad in admob.
I know amazon has an affiliate ad program but doesn't pay for impressions, is adsense the only one that pays per impression?
I think I can train the player to click 3d objects once they learn clicking an ad object in game is just like pulling the lever on a slot machine I think I could get people to do it on their own. I'd put a cooldown so they can't spam it.
Now I need to figure out how 10 adsense ad impressions compare to a single admob advertisement, since if I'm going to take the hit for launching the web browser I'd like to get 10+ impressions from it.
Any advice, or knowledge of other ad networks beyond adsense that pay per impression. I could further refine the webpages to actually show links that kids would click on, but that's a topic on it's own.
Thank you.


I think you have an effective marketing tool in mind.

Some similar link examples
http://techcrunch.co...to-popcornflix/
http://gammasocial.c...rs-rewards.html

Of some interest is the patent link below.

http://www.google.com.au/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT6954728&id=txwVAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=the+use+of+virtual+rewards+in+advertising&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q=the%20use%20of%20virtual%20rewards%20in%20advertising&f=false

Edited by Stormynature, 21 July 2012 - 11:34 AM.


#5 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:31 AM

I'm assuming this is you


Can you guys poke some holes in this idea I'm fleshing out, or just give me some insight.
In my 3d android game I placed 3d models of billboards/signs. Touching a billboard in game loads a webpage for that particular ad topic, which consists of 10 or so adsense ads and webpage content I write upselling the ads.
The user can simply press the back button on the screen from the browser to go back to the game. I tested on the kindle fire and it's very smooth to launch the site and go back to the game.
The reason players would touch the ads in game is because each time they do a dice roll gives a small chance of getting a rare item/weapon/armor/resources/etc or just some gold for their character in game. But they don't have to. (But who walks past a slot machine without pulling the lever?)
Potentially people could just download and play the game without ever clicking ads, but those that did would be rewarded in game.
Reasoning: I really despise some of the games promoted in admob advertisements, I'm targeting children, but regardless I just think some of those games are despicable, exploitative pieces of shit I don't want to support in any way. At least with adsense I can filter or tailor what ads are shown, since it's loading a webpage off my site I have more control of the ads shown and the rewards given in game.
The banner ads cover the screen and are annoying, my ads would be in a 3d world as part of the environment, a sign on a building, a billboard next to the road, etc. It does take up the screen when it launches the browser, but I'd space it out and you hit 1 button to return to the game just like you hit 1 button to get rid of a popup ad in admob.
I know amazon has an affiliate ad program but doesn't pay for impressions, is adsense the only one that pays per impression?
I think I can train the player to click 3d objects once they learn clicking an ad object in game is just like pulling the lever on a slot machine I think I could get people to do it on their own. I'd put a cooldown so they can't spam it.
Now I need to figure out how 10 adsense ad impressions compare to a single admob advertisement, since if I'm going to take the hit for launching the web browser I'd like to get 10+ impressions from it.
Any advice, or knowledge of other ad networks beyond adsense that pay per impression. I could further refine the webpages to actually show links that kids would click on, but that's a topic on it's own.
Thank you.


I think you have an effective marketing tool in mind.

Some similar link examples
http://techcrunch.co...to-popcornflix/
http://gammasocial.c...rs-rewards.html
http://www.google.co...rtising&f=false

Of some interest is the patent link


Thx, yea that's me and nobody will give any input, anywhere...thx for the links. Also can't believe the concept is patented. I hate this country.

Edited by lmbarns, 21 July 2012 - 11:33 AM.


#6 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3267

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

Also can't believe the concept is patented. I hate this country


It may not be. For whether or not the concept you have arrived at and what the patent covers you would need to consult a patents lawyer. Also I must apologise in one sense, by drawing your attention to the existance of this patent, if it is relevant to you I effectively removed a legal deniability from you. I was actually in the process of re-editing my post when your reply came through, warning of the associated issue if you used that link. Again my apologies.

#7 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:54 AM


Also can't believe the concept is patented. I hate this country


It may not be. For whether or not the concept you have arrived at and what the patent covers you would need to consult a patents lawyer. Also I must apologise in one sense, by drawing your attention to the existance of this patent, if it is relevant to you I effectively removed a legal deniability from you. I was actually in the process of re-editing my post when your reply came through, warning of the associated issue if you used that link. Again my apologies.


It's ok, I do need a lawyer to clarify it for me, I might be able to work around it. Honestly if I were the first person to think of it, I wouldn't believe you if you told me I could patent it. (a concept that just combines 2 existing technologies)

Actually reading it, I might be alright. It says:

Participants in a virtual world in an interactive, virtual environment implemented by computer networks and other interactive media such as interactive television are recruited to advertise products and brands to the other participants and viewers in the virtual world.


I'm looking at using it for single player games.

I wasn't going to use any brands in the game, just generalized topics for each sign/model. On the webpage I can load it with keywords (or carefully crafted articles from a professional writer) for the products and tailor individual pages for each topic.

I think I could get click throughs this way as well if I show ads kids are interested in, cartoons, toys, etc maybe even more-so than showing other games in ads through admob. Like kids probably would click on a banner ad for seaworld, disneyland, etc and simply hitting the back button when they're done takes them back to the game where they left off. But making money through ads on websites is a topic on it's own. But I really think there's something useful in driving traffic from an app.

Edited by lmbarns, 21 July 2012 - 11:58 AM.


#8 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3267

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

I do need a lawyer to clarify it for me


Just make sure your lawyer is a lawyer with specialisation/experienced in patents.

#9 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:13 PM

Threw up a basic example of what I'm talking about:


The headings on the webpages didn't show up well in the video, but it launches a different webpage for each ad in game. I just threw some solid color divs on the webpages as fake banners for demonstration purposes.

Loads the browser very fast, going back to the game has a few second pause. Hopefully rewards in game would make people want to take a few seconds to open and close the browser giving me a dozen impressions each time.


And heck I could research what kids are into, put a big banner of a supersoaker or whatever on the page that they might click giving a lot more than just page impressions.

#10 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 18207

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:17 AM

It's against the terms of service of most advertising providers to encourage or incentivise clicks on the ads.

You would therefore risk being rapidly disallowed from your affiliate programs, and might even risk being sued to recover any money already paid to you.

Consult a lawyer before proceeding.

#11 TylerBetable   Members   -  Reputation: 134

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

I agree with what was said above, incentivizing clicks or trying to "tweak" the advertising model in some way will usually get you kicked off of those services. The weeded out all of those arbitrage scenarios a while ago. Instead, I'd recommend looking at new monetization methods, such as:
  • Kiip - real rewards for virtual achievements
  • Betable - add real-money gambling into your game
Shameless plug, I know, but our goal is to help solve this problem :)
I work for Betable, a game monetization platform. I also write about startups, gaming, and marketing.

#12 lmbarns   Members   -  Reputation: 460

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:03 AM

I ended up going a different route. I still have to hire a lawyer to do a prior art search to tell me if I'm violating any patents, if not, file one. I'm building a prototype of the idea and drawings now, but the damn prior art search is $1k-$2k just to tell you if it's already patented.

I found several similar patents but a few key parts in each are completely different from my plan, so I don't know if those different parts are enough to be considered an improvement to the process. But seeing what other people were granted patents for makes me think if it's not already taken that it could be patented. I was going to file a provisional claim as soon as I finish the prototype giving me a year to get the rest done.

#13 Vitalicense   Members   -  Reputation: 104

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:48 AM

Developing a great game is not an easy job and every developer wants to ensure that his efforts will be paid back.
There are different models of monetization but most common is Paid apps.
But there is a problem with pirates, keygens and so on...
As a team of software developers we decided to protect our stuff and has invented new app protection solution.
It is an online licensing service that prevents multiple copies of the software running at different Windows PCs.
If somebode is interested in such solution, just ask me for more detailed info. It is risk-free and we are not greedy (sometimes we support great projects for free)

#14 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2766

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:16 AM

Hate to be that guy, but are you sure something like this is even allowed by the advertisers?

I think it might fall under "inflating clicks artificially", since people would not anylonger click the ads because they are interested in the product, but just as a gameplay element.

From Admob FAQ:
Invalid clicks and impressions
Publishers may not click their own ads or use any means to inflate impressions and/or clicks artificially, including manual methods. Google treats invalid click activity very seriously, analyzing all clicks and impressions to determine whether they fit a pattern of use that might artificially drive up an advertiser's costs or a publisher's earnings. If we determine that an AdMob account might pose a risk to our advertisers, we may disable that account to protect our advertisers' interests.




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