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My First Post: Wanting Mostly General Information at This Time


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#1 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3159

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:05 PM

Hi, everyone

This is my first post. After viewing this website over several days, I liked both the information and the friendly atmosphere, so here I am!

I feel that the first area to cover is a little about me. After that, I will give my long term goals, short term focus, and then ask a few questions.


In 1986 I was most of the way through second semester BASIC and first semester COBOL in college when I dropped college to help my disabled mom. A simple 2D computer game in Basic and even simpler 3D one in COBOL were completed by me and I liked it. I was hooked even way back then.

Over the last several years, I have modded a couple flight simulators, Java based and the other C++. I have read a little about extractors, libraries, class files, compilers, dlls, configuration files, compilation libraries and so forth, though I have used little of them myself. Pardon me if I do not get the correct name right for these kinds of things because some of them might be modder slang. My modding involved making missions, skins, sounds, and 3D objects for the most part, but I sometimes helped people find the files they wanted deeper in the game.


Long term I want to create computer based games first and leave the possiblity to expand to Xbox or Playstation with the same game. It might be a dream, but I will die trying with a smile on my face! Posted Image The ulitmate would be that the games run well on OS X or Windows, DirectX or OpenGL, but quite a challenge to please everybody, I know, not to mention the technical issues. Reaching this level I would expect to have a game engine and a game created from it which runs independently of the game engine.

Short term I aim to make a simple 3D game which will play well with any ordinary laptop computer with no dedicated graphics card and also can be played in any with a dedicated card system. I likely will make a game and start again several times before I make a complete full featured one, as seems to be the normal course of learning. Learning a few languages will be part of the development. Perhaps the game engine would be integrated with the game in this stage, but really nothing is written in stone quite yet. Posted Image

Making my own tools would be very fun for me right from the beginning. Having read in these forums about C# and making tools for games, I already am leaning in that direction.


Questions...

Is it possible to make a fully featured game only for learning purposes which uses only open source components from start to finish? If this is possible, can it be made to run on OS X or Windows and DirectX or OpenGL while still being made only with open source things?

Is there such a thing as any open source computer programming languages which are good for creating a 3D computer game?

One last noobie question for anyone who knows at least a few languages: Is it possible for me to create my own object oriented programming language and have it meet both my short term and long term goals? I felt this would be a fun question for the experts.

Regardless of experiance level, any answers will be appreciated.


Thanks,

Dreamer

P.S. Damage model and effects are important to me so performance is too, if this may influence your reply.

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 04 August 2012 - 06:24 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


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#2 riverreal   Members   -  Reputation: 616

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:57 PM

Considering Open-source as a software with an accessible code...

Is it possible to make a fully featured game only for learning purposes which uses only open source components from start to finish?

Sure, you can. But I didn't understand the "components" part.
If you want to make your game open-source, just share the source code files with it.
Or... if you're talking about using open-source tools ( rendering, audio, phisycs engines like ogre, irrlicht, bullet, etc). Yes, you can use these tools to make a game.

Can it be made to run on OS X or Windows and DirectX or OpenGL while still being made only with open source things?

It depends what kind of tools do you want to use. For example Ogre, Irrlicht and Bullet (physics library ) support Windows, Mac OS X and linux
For APIs: DirectX only supports Windows and OpenGL 3.x supports Windows, Mac OS X, linux.

Is there such a thing as any open source computer programming languages which are good for creating a computer game?

You are implementing incorrectly the word "Open-source".
By the way, the commonly used language in PC and console game programming is C++. For Android development Java. For iOS development Objective-C.

#3 Goran Milovanovic   Members   -  Reputation: 1104

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:42 PM

I will die trying with a smile on my face!


That's the right attitude. People who get into game development with hopes of quick success are sorely disappointed, because it always takes years of consistent practice, and lots of false starts. They lose interest soon after, and we never hear from them again.

On the other hand, people who keep doing it just for the pleasure of the craft, without too much thought given to how long it's going to take ... well, these are the people that ultimately make amazing stuff.

Is it possible to make a fully featured game only for learning purposes which uses only open source components from start to finish? If this is possible, can it be made to run on OS X or Windows and DirectX or OpenGL while still being made only with open source things?


Generally, a piece of software created "only for learning purposes" would imply a program that is not "fully featured".

But to answer the question: You can make virtually any kind of game with only Open Source libraries, for most mainstream platforms.

Is there such a thing as any open source computer programming languages which are good for creating a 3D computer game?


As far as I know, there is no language that was specifically designed for "creating a 3D computer game". There are a lot of general purpose languages that seem fitting for a wide variety of complex software projects, and any one of them could be used to create a game, be it 2D, 3D, or whatever.

I mostly use C and Python. Actually, I have a series of video tutorials that cover two fairly simple 3D games, developed with the Blender Game Engine, and programmed in Python, so if you want to check that out, look here: http://www.gamedev.n...er-game-engine/

One last noobie question for anyone who knows at least a few languages: Is it possible for me to create my own object oriented programming language and have it meet both my short term and long term goals? I felt this would be a fun question for the experts.


Anything is possible, but currently, I'm guessing it's far beyond your ability. You need to learn quite a bit about programming, and how computers work in general, before you're in a position to create something that works fairly well. And even then, you should ask yourself if it's worth the effort, or if you can do better than what's already out there.

Personally, I don't think the language itself is all that relevant - Most are based around the same basic concepts, so anything you can do in one language can usually be done in another. There are differences stemming from various trade-offs between convenience and performance, but I think it ultimately comes down to the available libraries, and the size of the community (which tends to determine the availability of quality documentation, along with other resources).

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| Game Dev video tutorials  ->   http://www.youtube.com/goranmilovano |
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#4 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3159

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:02 PM

Considering Open-source as a software with an accessible code...

Is it possible to make a fully featured game only for learning purposes which uses only open source components from start to finish?

Sure, you can. But I didn't understand the "components" part.
If you want to make your game open-source, just share the source code files with it.
Or... if you're talking about using open-source tools ( rendering, audio, phisycs engines like ogre, irrlicht, bullet, etc). Yes, you can use these tools to make a game.

By components I meant the tools and all else such as programming language(s) and content. In the case of my first few games which are for learning, I am assuming that the game engine will be integrated into the game. So yes, your answer was on the right track because I believe that I will need to start with already available tools, open source ones being my preference and customize them for my needs. I would like to avoid making much of the content such as 3D objects - though can make them - on the very first games so I can focus more time on learning the game structure and the language.

To sort of invert the question, is there any major aspect of games which might not be open source such as the programming language or unusual tools such as for advanced effects or the complex damage model which I want? The C# looks proprietary to me, but that does not necessarily mean that I cannot use it to make tools free of royalty for a marketed game in the future which is my property does it? Researching the legal aspects of using things is ongoing for me, I see.

As for source code, I looked at definitions online and I am confused as to whether outside aquired tools would be considered part of the source code. If I get something nice going very early, yes, I would like to release it as open source once the bugs are gone. The ealiest games might be released with some bugs for getting help on them. I believe that sharing would not only help others but they could look at my work and offer ways to improve my game development, too. Early in my learning, the proprietary issues would not apply to me because it is only the practice stage and not going to be marketed.


Can it be made to run on OS X or Windows and DirectX or OpenGL while still being made only with open source things?

It depends what kind of tools do you want to use. For example Ogre, Irrlicht and Bullet (physics library ) support Windows, Mac OS X and linux
For APIs: DirectX only supports Windows and OpenGL 3.x supports Windows, Mac OS X, linux.

Ogre is something that interests me but I attempted to log into their forum several times and the registration process would not get past the verification stage. Irrlicht looked good in many ways but I am trying to find a path which is an open source programming language for the long term if that is possible. Though it has a bunch of languages unofficially being used with it, Irrlicht seems to have proprietary issues always attached to it such as some XML extensions. No doubt the proprietary things cannot be avoided entirely but I want to avoid as many as possible so I can use as many open source tools as possible in the long term for a marketed game. As I learn languages of course I will be able to create things which were missing previous.

Hey, please understand that I am not knocking the nice collections of extensions available for the recommended games, but I am trying to skip as many dead end cul de sacs as possible, though I know that there will be some.


Is there such a thing as any open source computer programming languages which are good for creating a computer game?

You are implementing incorrectly the word "Open-source".
By the way, the commonly used language in PC and console game programming is C++. For Android development Java. For iOS development Objective-C.


Yes, C++ is the most common - got that but thanks. Are you saying otherwise that there is no real open source language which would be a consideration?

Thanks for the answers, riverreal



Hopefully the headset of the site doesn't mind my double quoting like this - hee, hee.Posted Image

Good stuff!


3Ddreamer

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 04 August 2012 - 09:03 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#5 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3159

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

Goran Milovanovic,

Okay after reading the posts of riverreal and yourself, I believe that I have enough answers to my original questions to proceed in finding the open source game engine and community which suits me. Great answers here, guys.

I would like to extend this conversation a little longer with a few things.

Yes - the eventual goal is full featured according to my goals. I had been hoping to start with one game for learning and then hit the big time on the very second game based on it as a best case scenario, but I am not "counting my chickens before they roost!" Posted Image If it takes 5, 10, 15, or 20 years to make a successful marketed game, then I agree with you that it is most likely to be all the better for it! My impression is that several years is typical for a complex game, is that true? Added is the few years of learning before that, so realistically I expect about 4 to 8 years before releasing the first marketed big one. I have considered releasing a much smaller one ealier to help momentum and in turn practice the marketing and distribution aspects, but that time will come.

About the creation of a new computer programming language for my own game engine: Yeah, I figured that it would take very experienced level in several areas first.


Okay, one last question guys: If I use a proprietary language but make a tool from scratch, is the tool mine or does it belong to the company who created the language? (In the case of C++, Microsoft for example) I looked in the legal forum of this site and online elsewhere but just did not find the answer by chance.


"Look! ... Here comes the Dreamer!" Posted Image


3Ddreamer

P.S. I will take a closer look at the referrals in the morning - bedtime now! Posted Image

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 04 August 2012 - 09:38 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#6 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:33 AM

Okay, one last question guys: If I use a proprietary language but make a tool from scratch, is the tool mine or does it belong to the company who created the language? (In the case of C++, Microsoft for example) I looked in the legal forum of this site and online elsewhere but just did not find the answer by chance.

Languages aren't usually owned by anyone and if they are the license almost universally lets you make what you want and keep rights to the product. Also C++ and microsoft, no relation there, microsoft didn't make C++ but they do make what is arguably the best IDE (visual studio). Microsoft did make C# but submitted it to some sort of international standards thing and usually once something is standardised anyones allowed to use it. Oracle own java but let you use it, people have made their own open sourced lava virtual machines and oracle doesn't kick up a fuss.

#7 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3159

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:35 PM

6677,
That's just the answer I needed.

After doing more research today including looking into open source game engines and explanations of some of the terms used here, I feel that you guys did a good job of pointing me in the right general direction. The research will continue by me for a while. I probably will try and examin several game engines and their communities before making a decision on which one will be my focus for learning. My goal is to make a decision on the last day of this month! Which one will it be? Maybe I will get hooked on one by love at first sight! Posted Image I will let the gamedev community know here.

Thanks, everyone

3Ddreamer

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer





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