I'm pretty much starting out, just looking for validation/tips.

Started by
13 comments, last by ForTheAncients 11 years, 8 months ago
Hi everyone, it feels wrong to say this considering I've been programming and designing games since I was about 10... But... I suppose I must admit I'm still at the beginner level sleep.png So I come to you now as a beginner hoping to finally do what I never done as a kid - Go somewhere with my interest.

I'm 18 now, and a part-time member of the real world, with a job, an upcoming apprenticeship (in a non-gaming trade) and my ultimate goal in mind - to become a game developer. It's time to start building my skills.

So, I was trying to decide between content creation and programming. I could embrace my creative abilities and master content creation (e.g. 2D graphics, music) and put it into RPG Maker or something... Or I could learn C++ first and have a lot more control over my games, with the drawback of creating crappy content or using stock content.
What I decided in the end was, I'll do a bit of each. Be well rounded (as I try to be in all things). That's probably the best route for an aspiring leader/designer (with a degree of independence), right? And what would be a good way to mix all that together without overloading myself? (herein lies Questions 1 & 2)

Now as I mentioned I'm using C++ as my programming language, and I'm not learning it in college or anything (I have neither the time nor the interest in the education system), so I'm currently reading Michael Dawson's "Beginning C++ Game Programming"... Is this a book you would recommend? And I'd like to be aware of any upcoming problems that might not be described in this book - e.g. math concept. (Questions 3 & 4)

That's all I'll bug you lot with today - Cheers for any help you can give me, hopefully the advice you give here will kick off something big :D
Advertisement
You don't necessarily have to learn C++ to have control on what you do. No offence, but with your current level of programming skills and by learning C++ in your spare time, it will take years before you can make a game from scratch!

What I would suggest is to start using a game engine such as Unity. You can get good results pretty quickly. The skills you'll learn that way will be a lot more useful to a future game designer than learning how to program in C++. Most game designers have a basis in scripting languages, but the vast majority don't know C++ and will never have to know it.

If by designer you mean programmer (which is not the same at all), then learning C++ can help, but as I said before, it'll take a really long time before you get good results without using an existing game engine.

So, my advice is to use an existing engine. You'll touch programming and design concepts, just like what you want to do, but you won't be overwhelmed by the gigantic task of creating something from scratch.
Using an existing game engine is certainly a good place to start. You can do all your programming in a very high-level language, and it's usually a pleasure to work with.

However, even with all the great platforms out there, I think people eventually hit a wall where they need to build something a little more specialized, and at that point, knowing C/C++ can really help you.

I don't think you need to spend money on a book. There is a lot of high quality material on the internet, and a basic google search will provide you with pretty much everything you need.

Also, I would recommend searching the web for university lectures. Actually, there is a Stanford playlist about C that is damn near perfect:


You can also find C++ lectures, although, I would recommend learning C before learning C++.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

| Game Dev video tutorials -> http://www.youtube.com/goranmilovano | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
You can also find C++ lectures, although, I would recommend learning C before learning C++.[/quote]

Why? On the contrary, if you don't know C yet I would recommend NOT learning C before looking at C++, you'll just end up getting confused. Idiomatic C++ looks very different than idiomatic C, but C++ will let most C code through just fine, so you might end up compiling C code with a C++ compiler and call the result C++.
Cheers everyone.
The thing is, Faelenor, I'm trying to balance my creative and technical abilities because some days one part of my brain is just dead. That, and I want to have more entry points that just "Tester, or designer". But I will definitely look at Unity, I have UDK but I guess I just opened it, thought "oh, shieeet", and started playing the demo game instead. I do use RPG Maker XP, which allows me to use the scripting language as well (Ruby) so it's ideal, but I get so annoyed at the selection of RTP materials that I end up trying to make my own :P

Goran, I've never considered watching lecture videos but I've always used internet tutorials, I'll keep using the internet as my main research method, I just prefer something a bit more complete and consistent. I'll look at those playlists either tommorow or some time during the week - currently my "technical brain" is sleeping. That's my biggest curse and most valuable gift, that parts of my brain are constantly switching on and off.

That's exactly what I thought, HKei. I appreciate Goran's advice on the matter but I also think it'll just confuse me - I don't see why it would be worse to start on C++ from a beginner's perspective.
Hi, Berserkr

I recently did thorough research and thought on these issues myself. For quite a few years, I have worked toward this point of starting game development and decided to start this month. Content has been my focus for several years, whereas you have been making games, but they converge at the same point of having to consider things to become a game developer. Being a game maker is fine, but game developer as you seem to already know involves much more.

Goran Milovanovic and Faelenor are right with recommending an existing game engine, I feel, since you expressed the desire for balance. This approach will let you see motivating results of your work early, free you to discover your path in the art aspects soon, and show you game structure even as you learn the language.

The C++ is agreed by me because you already started learning it and any well supported language is perfectly fine.

What I decided in the end was, I'll do a bit of each. Be well rounded (as I try to be in all things).[/quote]
The important thing is that you are sure about this with your whole understanding and passion. Stay with this if it is what you want.

That's probably the best route for an aspiring leader/designer (with a degree of independence), right? And what would be a good way to mix all that together without overloading myself? (herein lies Questions 1 & 2)[/quote]

Writing "a degree of independence" implies that you want to avoid pure indy style and yet work for yourself, is this correct? In this case you are aspiring to be a leader, which has the potential to free you from many things, but will bring its own set of challenges. Contrary to myth, you don't have to be popular or an extrovert to be a leader. There are some nice leaders who are introverted or introspective and make an effective leader. I mention this because the more complex your system of game development, then the more you will have to choose between doing things yourself or having others do it. By contrast, it is much easier for a person to simply make a game - content and programming, then it is to create an organizational system for game development while you develop games at the same time. Your choices in game development must follow your abilities.

Mixing all these together without overloading requires these: You will need to be absolutely reliable, resposible for general planning, and able to delegate tasks correctly to qualified people. Perhaps you can easily find hobbyists to help you in the learning stages, but the more skillful the art then the more likely that paid artists will be needed for professional quality work. A beautiful exception to this is the game which appeals to the user because the gameplay is the real attraction and not the art. Generally, the highest selling games in gross sales are the ones with "Wow!" art and gripping gameplay, but not always. For example, there are games with simple gameplay that are popular for the visuals and the opposite is sometimes true.

The point this is: Managing your game development career will combine the demands of the game you visualize, your ability, and your decisions. What you will not be able to do must be handed to others if you want it done, at any stage of your career.

I can tell you, as an artist who has worked for almost two years under a game designer who in turn worked under the game developer/owner, that being both a skillful artist and learning to create art which will actually attract people to a game demands much effort by its own.

If people take a fair look at the most popular games, something must appeal to the player. Great visual content, gripping gameplay situations, or both must be there for it to be popular and sell big. I put this here because you seem to have it set on a game dev career with intentions of publishing your games. These last issues will heavily influence everything about your choices and your success in other's eyes. Some may scoff at being concerned about what others think ( I know a burn-out who feels that waytongue.png ) , but careers sail or sink based on it.

Some people seem to approach things for their own pleasure. I know of a couple guys who are developing a game for market but making it the way they want is top priority because they are set for life financially, so here is an exception and a possibility for you once you are financially independent.

Finally, the more that you do youself then the more you will have to learn. Since you want to be a leader according to your opening post, then you will need to know enough about the technical that you can oversee others work while having enough of a sense of art that you can know what adds appeal to your game.

It might seem like a lot to chew at the start, but once it is digested then these things empower a person.



3Ddreamer

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software. The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game. Completing projects is the last but finest order.

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer

DO BOTH!!!
seriously...
they go together

I just made a super long post down at the 7th line of that page in this link, Berserkr. It might help you, or maybe not.
Maybe I'm just crazy? O_o
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/629612-i-need-a-jumpstart/
I kinda forgot what I said because I haven't slept in four days... O_o

Anyway, I would say the book you are looking for is "Programming Windows 5th Edition by Charles Petzold."
It's written in like 98 but it's still the best book I ever seen in my whole life of programming... like a week. xD
But never-mind me! So Idk what you know about programming but I'll assume you're still hanging out in basic c++ syntactic and with all of our old friend
mr. <iostream> xD

Anywayyy.... (sorry, no sleep in days, too many drugs) xD
So basically what that book will get you into is simply programming with windows. (Using the Win32Api) You can't really use it for game development, Idk, you wouldn't really want to make games with win32 anyway. DirectX is for games and multimedia and all that jazz. But anyway,
The reason I'm bringing up a book about WindowsApplications on a game development website is because this book is really awesome and will walk your hand each step of the way of something that will at first; make C++ look as complicated as a tic-tac-toe board. Soooo in that case, DirectX, well... So yeah, you might end up wanting to shoot yourself in the foot about once or twice a day while learning DirectX.

That boring stuff works for me because I like designing software from scratch. The feeling of knowing that what I just wrote is %100 mine. Goodluck.

Why?


Because C is a simpler language, and because one has to know the fundamentals in order to build something of even modest complexity in C; You can write OO C++, relying heavily on the STL, without ever really knowing what a pointer is, or knowing that memory is byte-ordered.

So, I think programming in C provides deeper insights, from that perspective.

But, I should also make it clear that this is just my personal opinion, based on my own experience, and that it might not be universally true.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

| Game Dev video tutorials -> http://www.youtube.com/goranmilovano | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Because C is a simpler language, and because one has to know the fundamentals in order to build something of even modest complexity in C; You can write OO C++, relying heavily on the STL, without ever really knowing what a pointer is, or knowing that memory is byte-ordered.


Really? By what definition of simple? Why don't you start with assembler? After all, you can use C pointers without ever really knowing what a memory register is.
SimLab Developments
[twitter]simlabdev[/twitter]

Really?


That's my opinion, yes.


By what definition of simple?


In the sense that the language is smaller.


Why don't you start with assembler? After all, you can use C pointers without ever really knowing what a memory register is.


You mean CPU register, right? (I've never heard of a "memory register")

Anyway, I think that starting with assembler can definitelly have benefits, but I think C is probably the "sweet spot" between learning something about how the computer works, and having a fairly adequate set of "higher-level" constructs to work with.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

| Game Dev video tutorials -> http://www.youtube.com/goranmilovano | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

This topic is closed to new replies.

Advertisement