18 replies to this topic

[speciesUnknown]

This is the game in its current form. Note that bullets have travel time.

www.zombiebovine.com/playgame

I'm currently upgrading the zombie AI and I want to add a system where zombies hear gunshots nearby and charge toward the player; to balance this out, I need a dedicated stealth weapon. But I don't want something that has been done recently in a big game - I want something that sets my game's stealth sections apart.

Here are some ideas that I've had so far:

Boomerang - after hitting a target it returns and you have to catch it. if you don't hit an enemy, it wont return.

Throwing knives - when you throw knives in real life, you need to take care of the rotation of the blade; so some kind of mechanic of charging the spin by the right amount might make this a challenge. I throw knives in real life (although I'm not very good at it) and can reliably stick a knife in a target blade first, but this takes serious practice and concentration. Whether you go for one spin or multiple spins, you need to ensure the spin is correct.

Crossbow - How can I make this more of a challenge than just a plain old crossbow?

Longbow - Again, how to make this a proper challenge?

Dart gun - the same problem applies here, I want the stealth weapon to be harder to snipe with than other weapons and a dart gun is just too easy if its similar to a normal gun.

Any ideas are welcome, thanks for reading.

Edited by speciesUnknown, 14 August 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[jefferytitan]

An immediate thought on challenge is that non-bullet projectiles have shorter range, less penetration (e.g. may not go through glass or wood depending upon factors), and are affected more by wind. Bows would also have higher reload time.

On another tack, you could go for stealth melee weapons, e.g. decapitate with some kind of garotte, nailgun to the brain, etc. The risk would be the close range and accuracy required, and slow movement required to maintain stealth.

Another possibility is that the stealth weapon has a chance of causing attention from the target if it hits without killing.

For general players I would discourage advanced weapon physics. The furthest I would go would be a tactical element to use plus a timing challenge (e.g. random movement of sights, firing at right time in breathing cycle, perhaps a similar mechanism for knife throwing where the point in the cycle is directly related to the angle of the knife when it hits).

[jbadams]

Perhaps certain weapons -- I'm thinking specifically of the blow-gun here, but it could also apply to others -- aren't immediately effective against the target. Consider for example, you sneak up and hit a lone target -- you can't take a group because of the increased risk and slow effectiveness -- with your dart, but you need to either hit your target from behind or risk being attacked -- potentially noisily -- before the dart takes effect.le some

Only applicable in some situations, and difficult to use effectively. Does that meet your needs?

[jefferytitan]

Another possibility is that stealth weapons don't kill or don't kill unless you go to town on them. For example, dart gun, whack over the head with a 2x4, etc. That also leads to fun moments like "oh crap, the zombies I knocked out over there are waking up and they can see me now!".

[MrDaaark]

Prop up a Scarecrow that makes noise. When enough undead get near it, remote detonate it!

[Bluefirehawk]

What about a simple rock? Drop on your enemy. But the death is noisy, so this will attrackt zombies to the rock. You can throw it a bit, but not very far.

[_for_science]

Boomerang - after hitting a target it returns and you have to catch it. if you don't hit an enemy, it wont return.

Wait, isn't that the opposite of how a boomerang is supposed to work?

I like the idea of simple rocks in a zombie survival scenario. Ammo conservation is an important aspect of survival and rocks are not only plentiful but also highly reusable.

How about small throwable rocks or bricks?
You hit an enemy and there's a (mostly silent) squishy impact. If you miss, the rock/brick causes considerably more noise (depending on the surface it lands on?). However, the noise originates from the point of impact. That way rocks can not only be used as stealthy weapons, but also to create diversions.

[ToddF]

As a total curveball (and this is dependent on the tech level of your world, thought you could always explain it as a secret prototype military weapon) how about something pheremone-based?

It is usually indicated that zombies are attracted to potential prey primarily via their hearing, but why not secondarily by a sense of smell? It would be a better way of telling live humans from fellow undead than sight, and hunting via scent is a common methodology for many predators so why not undead?

If you accept this premise, then the pheremone-rifle could work in a number of ways. Lets say if deploys via firing a silenced dart (so shortish range) which is loaded with powerful pheremonal chemicals.

You hit your zombie target and the dart releases its payload. You could have it that the zombie becomes confused, disoriented, unable to focus clearly on the smell of his human prey anymore.

A more interesting possibility would be that the payload makes him smell like a living human being, such that his fellow zombies go for him, rather than for the player. Hell, as stupid as zombies are, he might even start eating himself!

Like I say, curveball, but thought it might be of interest.

[samoth]

On another tack, you could go for stealth melee weapons, e.g. decapitate with some kind of garotte

Awesome junk movie, big fun... have not seen that one for a while.

And suddenly memories of Shaun of the Dead come up... vinyl records...

Boomerang - after hitting a target it returns and you have to catch it. if you don't hit an enemy, it wont return.

The opposite would be more realistic and more challenge. If you miss a zombie so it can still kind of "feel the wind", it will see where the boomerang goes to, which is... you!

Crossbow - How can I make this more of a challenge than just a plain old crossbow?

Takes 10 seconds of winch operation to be ready, can only be strung for a minute without taking damage -- needs ahead planning (and needs a winch, which is not necessarily found on the same location). A "serious" crossbow (as opposed to a toy) might need a ratchet brace too, which is not so much stealth at all. That means you not only have to plan ahead to snipe, you also have to find a secluded place for the non-stealth bit first. Besides, firing a crossbow (or bow) is nowhere near silent, the whizz of the string and the tack of the slide are not as terribly loud as gunfire, but they're clearly audible.

Longbow - Again, how to make this a proper challenge?

Same as crossbow, you cannot have a bow strung for indefinite time. And of course you only have so and so many arrows, which are ~50% likely to break when hitting a body (and 100% likely when hitting a wall).

[NaturalNines]

How about a Sling? Incorporates the plentiful ammo aspect of rocks as well as can utilize a unique firing method, such as holding the button down to start swinging the sling, which gains power, then release to throw. You could even add in aim disruption as you hold the button for longer to increase the difficulty of power shots. Make it weak with extra damage to the head and an additional bonus when undetected by the enemy. Difficult to use effectively, but infinite ammo and stealthy (unless you miss, of course).

[CptAwesomePants]

One thing I noticed is that firing at a zombie and missing didn't wake it up. Perhaps most guns have the downside of alerting any zombie the projectile gets near to, but a couple of slower weapons, like a dart gun, would NOT wake up zombies if you missed.

[speciesUnknown]

How about a Sling? Incorporates the plentiful ammo aspect of rocks as well as can utilize a unique firing method, such as holding the button down to start swinging the sling, which gains power, then release to throw. You could even add in aim disruption as you hold the button for longer to increase the difficulty of power shots. Make it weak with extra damage to the head and an additional bonus when undetected by the enemy. Difficult to use effectively, but infinite ammo and stealthy (unless you miss, of course).

I like this idea, I've certainly not seen a sling used as a weapon in this capacity. I remember having sling weapons in rogue-likes but those were purely probability based.

[aattss]

How about a scythe-hook on a chain? You throw it and hook onto someone's head, and then you tear it off!

[Oolala]

How about a gun sling. You sling a gun far away from yourself with the trigger held down and it flops around like a unmanned water hose, spraying randomly around it. It makes a ton of noise, but it's stealthy as well in that the noise isn't coming from you, and thus the zombies don't find you when they come to investigate.

Or how about a human mask? You sneak up to a zombie and put it on it, and the other zombies attack it.

Or how about a quince? You throw it at them and it's so astringent that it dries the zombie up into zombie-jerky, and they just stand there dead, but appearing to be alive.

[Mratthew]

Could try a simple spear as well. Relatively easy to make (sharpened long stick) with a good knife, multiples can be carried, great from high ground and the melee aspects are cool because the enemy gets stuck on the end and is still a threat but a strong character could use a zombie on the end of a spear as a blunt weapon. There are countless types of spears as well that can be explored as well as countless types of poll arm weapons in general. A stick could be picked up with a knife in hand and holding down the button could sharpen the tip of the stick putting the knife away. Ta da free stealth weapon.

I've always liked the idea of fighting zombies in a museum. Something about becoming a permanent fixture that tickles me. Though I guess nothing is permanent when zombies are the topic. Seriously though, wouldn't stumbling into a dojo during a zombie apocalypse be super cathartic especially after having to kill your entire zombie turned family? So many blades and funny punching bag moments just waiting to happen.

Don't know if you're game has skill progression but a new character could be less stealthy when using the spear at range (or any melee weapon really with all the grunting and struggling) but the more they use it the quieter and deadlier they are at it.

Shish kazombies anyone? heh multiple zombies stuck to the same stick, that's funny.

[NaturalNines]

To add to the sling idea, you could also have the projectile's aim disrupted if the timing of the release is off. This could be identified by either a swooshing noise at the proper release time (similar to FF8's trigger system with the gunblade, but with a constantly decreasing indication since the sling is being spun faster and faster) and/or a graphic that identifies the proper release time either with the actual rotation of the sling (as seen by the player) or an arbitrary guiding graphic (similar to Legend of Dragoon's physical attack circle/meter when in Dragoon armor, but you only have to hit the release button once).

[MrDaaark]

Something I like from Dead Rising, and Shaun Of The Dead is doing the zombie walk and just blending in. If it's maintained long enough, and enough zombies are attracted, take it one step further and turn it into the thriller dance.

Like in moonwalker:

#RandomThought

Look around 0:40 for the Thriller dance.

Edited by Daaark, 16 August 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Burning Hand]

I think throwing stars are the best option. Nearly 100% guaranteed not to kill in the first shot but very stealthy. Only the target is aware of you with other targets maybe being aware the target is alert but still don't know where you are. Multiple blows to the face get you a kill.
Short bow would be great too, not totally quiet but more deadly. Both options can be very loud if you miss. Imagine a Boromir zombie death scene.

[Randel]

1. Distraction devices - Animal meat, human meat (harvested from human corpses, motential for a morality system in its use), a tape player that plays sounds of humans (the person had an empty tape, recorded 'silence' for the first few minutes/seconds whatever, then sounds of people doing stuff. Using it involves setting down the player, pressing 'play' then walking away so the tape hits the distracting noises while you're away. No fancy timers needed). These are just easy to use items you drop that make zombies want to go to that area while you go elsewhere.

2. Distracting corpses - Same as the devices except you can use dead bodies of humans or maybe zombies. Making a scarcrow works as well but might not be as convincing. So order of convincing is scarecrow, zombie corpse, human corpse. Each corpse also uses a tape player or something else. Difference is that you can't really carry a corpse around so you have to find one to use or set up a scaecrow. Maybe have human corpses set up in the game and using a tape player on them boosts the effectivness of the distraction alot (basically telling the player "here's a good place to use a distraction". Human corpses can also be used to harvest meat for distracting.

3. Slings - Simple weapons you can craft from scraps and use plentiful ammo. Could also be that by default the sling gives unlimited ammo in the form of rocks but they come in different sizes. Small rocks go farther but deal less damage than larger ones etc. So when you use it you load it, see you have a small/large rock and can then either hurl it as is or press 'reload' and get another random rock as ammo. Upgrading the ammo pouch gives you multiple pouches so you can select small, medium, and large rocks at will and maybe other limited ammo like marbles or metal bearings or whatever. The 'upgrade' basically consists of your character learning to organize his ammo.

You could also sling things like vials of acid, vials of blood or meat (hit a zombie and the other zombies suddenly smell human on him and attack him for a few seconds), or maybe light bulbs. Toss a light bulb and it deals no damage but makes a distracting noise.

Lasso - Toss out a lasso and try to tighen it around a zombies neck. If you tighen around the neck they can't yell out to alert other zombies, you can then back up and try to snap its neck to kill it. Even if you can't snap its neck then its inability to scream makes it easier to kill it without alerting others.


4. Protective gear. When the outbreak started, the emergency services started handing out gas masks and heavy clothing that can protect against bites (or be better than civilian clothes). Wear these and you can cover yourself in zombie gunk to smell like one of them and the mask hides your human face to make your attempts at 'blending in' better. Problem is that other survivors might not be able to tell you are human... unless you strap an "I am human, just pretending to be a zombie" sign on yourself. Fortunately, zombies can't read... or can they???

You may run into other zombies wearing gas masks who got infected but they also get reduced hearing and sight and can't bite you. They can however yell to alert others if they spot you and the staps on their gas mask makes it harder for you to strangle them with the lasso. Also, if they are wearing body armor or other protective gear then they will be in healthier shape then other zombies. Just so you know, people wearing decent body armor or heavy clothing are less likely to get taken out by zombies (which is one reason why these guys would be less common than the ones made by people wearing T-shirts and jeans) and when they are turned then its more due to a bite on the wrist or some other body part then getting their face eaten. So your common zombie is wearing a T-shirt and is covered in bites he sustained before he turned enough that the others stopped biting him whereas the ones in riot gear are healthier and stronger due to the fact that they didn't get bitten as much before turnign... and they are probably former police or something and thus are stronger from all the training they did while alive.

So your "elite zombies" could be tough armored guys in riot gear or thick trench coats, but are likely to have masks on that prevent them from biting anyone. They can however rush up and grab you to try and wrestle you to the ground while the lesser zombies try to bite at you. Could make from an interesting dynamic where the lesser zombies are basially 'cannon fodder' while the elite ones are meant to rush you and knock you down so the lesser ones can bite you. Course, the elite guys have helmets and masks on so their vision and hearing sucks, so you just have to make sure not to alert the lesser zombies (who would in turn alert the big guy). Gameplay could thus favor distracting and picking off the lesser zombies without alerting the big guy, then take out the big guy himself. Again, zombies with masks can't infect you but instead wrestle you, so a fight against a big guy is actually less lethal than the lesser ones. Just chop him with an axe and if he does grab you, worst he can do is mash his facemask against your neck while you struggle to free yourself.


Hmm, I find the idea of non-biting zombies to be rather an interesting concept. Like those headcrabs that can sting you and take you down to one health but can't kill you. Kind of like black headcraps from half-life 2. Scary but can't actually kill you.