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Realistic Encouragement vs Trolling Tear-down


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#21 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2902

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

I wish that someone would stick this to the top of the beginner forum! Posted Image

People have encouraged me who really did not have much talent or experience but by shear determination and hard work made progress. At the other end of the spectrum, who is to say if some genius in the rough (like diamond in the rough) game developer isn't right here in the Beginner forum making their first posts? ( Mistakes and oversights included )

There are all types of people in here. This thread sends a good message to everyone. We who are good natured need to support one another and the community with strong unity, so I say G.R.E.A.T post, Lance!

3Ddreamer

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 20 August 2012 - 03:52 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


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#22 Rld_   Members   -  Reputation: 1329

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

I think a reality check isn't something negative in general, but the way you put it makes it negative or positive. Everybody has a dream and who are you/we to tear it down? The "I want to make the next best MMO" is probably one of the most common beginner trends out there at the moment and all we can do is give them their reality check!

But instead of going bashing them to the ground, shattering their dreams ruthlessly by telling them it's a stupid idea, provide constructive feedback and alternatives for them to work with! Can't be bothered to give that feedback? Don't respond! It's simple as that! You wouldn't like to be bashed down with your idea if you come here to learn right? Treat others like you want to be treated yourself. Doesn't mean you have to lie, but the way you bring something can do a lot to and for a person.

I also don't see the problem with people willing to make the next MMO. It's their dream, you have to start somewhere and perhaps it is aimed way to high for 9 out of 10 people, but you can't learn how to walk without falling down a couple of times. Perhaps you would like to see them walking without falling, let them take baby steps and sure, that is fine for those who want to take the hand that guides them, but obviously that is not how everybody works.

I say; Let them try to walk, let them fall! Let them learn! Some people simply need to fall a couple of times before they take your hand and listen to what you have to say and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

So to all you beginners out there, don't be afraid fall down, but don't be afraid to take that hand when it's presented to you. Live you dream, try to run and don't give up!

#23 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:23 AM

My message is for the downtrodden who now feel their GameDev dream is out of reach, who are frustrated and considering giving up, and who might be feeling that perhaps the mean-hearted claims of those mentioned above are correct. Don't give up. Yes, there are realities and requirements that you must satisfy before you're ready to get a job at that big game company, or to start your own game studio, or whatever your dream is, but if you want it badly enough, then you wont let the nay-sayers tell you what you can and can't do. Did you know the Walt Disney was fired by a newspaper editor because he "lacked imagination and had no good ideas"?


I see something similar at my local Boxing Gym constantly. Younger guys than me come, are full of hopes, dreams and ambition. They want their first fight as soon as possible. Then they lose and I never see them again.
Why? They saw themselfes in the ring, their opponent lying on the floor and a beatiful woman giving them their champion belt and her phone number. It wasn't the Martial Arts they were so passionate about. And when realizing that they aren't the next Mohammed Ali and it may be harder to get good than they thought, they leave.

The same thing seems to happen to beginners here, they come, think they have the next new supergame in hand and after they implemented it, they can start their own game studio etc.
When they look at their results and see that they aren't anywhere near 3A quality, most of them give up.


both boxing and gamedev are extremely fun, but not for everybody. And even fewer people get so good at it that they can become a professional.


Yes, there are stories from personalities such as Walt Disney, Bill Gates and Einstein. But chances are, you are neither of those, you are just a normal guy. There might be the next legendary gamedeveloper lurking around in the beginner section, but treating all beginners this way seems wrong to me.
Don't be a dick, be realistic. Encourage somebody to have a look at tutorials, give tutorials when needed, but more encouragement is misplaced I think. If somebody is discouraged by this, he/she would have abandoned game programming anyways later on. I cannot imagine you discourage the guy/girl who just likes to develop a game, who doesn't really care about success. In the end, those are the people with potential, the people who stay.

Edited by Bluefirehawk, 21 August 2012 - 05:48 AM.

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#24 Lightness1024   Members   -  Reputation: 677

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:35 AM

In my point of view, "reality checkers" (like you seem to call them on that thread), are people who felt, got back up, and just got desillusioned the hard way. In the end, they want other people to avoid that if possible, but there is a tendency to be rough in THE TALK™, because of memories of those harsh days.
When I felt, there was no such thing as gamedev.net yet, I wanted to reproduce half life (not better, just the same), never managed it (say 5%, over 5 years, non intensive). Even though I had already a history of 4 years of programming and many little games (some actually finished, even !).
So you can see why this can be painful, and because of that we prefer to stop others right there.
Then, everything resides in the 'way it is put'.

#25 larspensjo   Members   -  Reputation: 1526

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:39 AM

Programming is difficult. Programming games is even more difficult, requiring knowledge from many domains. Programming a MMO is maybe the hardest programming you can do.

I like to encourage beginners. Instead of pointing out all major project high risks, it is good to point to the "next step".

A games project can generally end up in two ways. Either as a success, or as a failure. And I believe the best way to learn is from your failures. (someone said that only geniuses learn from other's failures). You can't appreciate some design patterns if you haven't first found the mistakes that shows what the problem really is about.

To summarize: If someone wants to start programming games, he or she will almost certainly learn a lot. That is a good thing, and something that should be encouraged. A reality check is not important unless you are into "real money".
Current project: Ephenation.
Sharing OpenGL experiences: http://ephenationopengl.blogspot.com/

#26 Goran Milovanovic   Members   -  Reputation: 1103

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:51 AM

Yes, there are stories from personalities such as Walt Disney, Bill Gates and Einstein. But chances are, you are neither of those, you are just a normal guy.


What? I'm not special? My mom lied to me! Posted Image

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#27 Katie   Members   -  Reputation: 1244

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:37 AM

There's the rule of 10,000 hours as well. Some of us really are actually really good developers; but we've spent years and years working to get to this place. People who've read a book and written a ten-liner just aren't going to build stuff. Not without going through that 10,000 hour learning curve. Now, there's no reason why your dream game isn't at the end of that process for you, but it's a painful way to do things and you'll probably end up hating it long before 10k hours.

A lot of people show up with concepts for the game they want to play. But the news is that you ain't ever playing it. Even if you write it, you'll spend the rest of your time *running* it. I went to movie writing class once. It's a pain of a course to get onto -- turns out those of us on the year long writing course get priority. Week 1 is always scheduled in this huge lecture room. 50 seater room for the 20 people subscribed because people bring their friends, people show up on spec... this guy walks in carrying a HUGE folder of notes and talks for two solid hours about three-act structures, plot-point systems and so on. For those of us who are there to learn to write movies it's BRILLIANT. For the people who just want to have written a killer movie without going through the intervening hard work places... well, lets just say that weeks 2 onwards of the course are apparently habitually scheduled in much smaller rooms. I think four of us completed the course in the end (by submitting a pitch, a plot outline and at least 30 pages of a properly formed movie script).

{It was even harder for me, because I lost my temper with the text editors to hand and had to write a tool for typesetting movie scripts in C++ before doing much of the writing...}

Too many people want to have written a cool game, whereas generally successful game devs are interested in the actual writing of games process and the cool, if it happens at all, happens by accident.

#28 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 11939

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:41 AM

I have a feeling I am going to get downvoted for this post.


Part 1: My Defense
I feel as if I might be one of those who contributed towards your idea that sometimes people here are pretty harsh and discouraging.
I wouldn’t say it is my reputation, but it is not really uncommon for me to post a reply in the “Breaking into the Industry” section that is extremely discouraging. I have flat-out said to some people that they have no business in the industry.
I can’t speak for everyone who says things like this, but as for myself, I say these kinds of things because I believe it and because it feels as though I am doing my part in making the game industry a better place.
I say it to people who make me feel as if they have the wrong idea about what making games means.
“I studied accounting but I heard game programmers [in America] make more so I thought I would switch. At which school should I study?”
I enhanced their grammar here but the basic idea is a person who is just in it for the money. There are a few other examples (see link above for one), but all of them feel unworthy of actual game-making practice.

I discourage them because we don’t need them in the industry. Or the industry doesn’t need them.
I can’t find all the links now, but I can say with certainty that all of the people I have discouraged were because I felt that they were nothing but a disservice to the industry as a whole. I would hate myself if I let them become a major figure in the industry and lead it into some corporate direction that was all about the money.


Part 2: Blind Faith
I am a programmer but I also play classical piano professionally (my classical performances have been used in movies, my original works used in games) and I draw photorealistically. On my deviantArt page you can find many pencil drawings (and no photographs).
In the world of art I see this mentality a lot. Artists encouraging other artists blindly.
Everyone just rambles on about how you can do anything with practice. Just practice practice practice.
But that is just blind encouragement. The frank fact is that I have spent fewer than 300 hours of my entire life (30 hours per year) drawing things. I know people on deviantArt whose lives revolve around art and have spent over 10,000 hours drawing, but will never ever be as realistic.

Certain people excel at certain things. Period.
I don’t believe in—and I strongly detest—giving people false hope. This is basically the point of your post.
Actually I can’t speak for every person who has been shot down, but in my experience only people who needed to be shot down were shot down.
I have a bad reputation on deviantArt because I am (seemingly) the only one willing to give people bad news. Artists really hate that. And I may get downvoted, but I stand by what I believe. Some people need to be discouraged. Some people are not fit for the job.

Which leads me to part 3.


Part 3: Blind Encouragement
I don’t believe in this.
You have a +25 last time I checked. Congratulations. The highest upvoting I have ever seen.
But in my experience (and I could be wrong), most people who got discouraged were discouraged for a reason. Part #1 explains why I feel that way. I know I am a major offender when it comes to discouraging people but there is always a reason why. For every person I have discouraged I have encouraged 3 or 4 more. That is close to the ratio I would expect.
But your post is open. It is for everyone. That is just wrong. Because no matter how optimistic you are, you can agree that not everyone is really suitable for the game industry. It is not just my theory but actual experience.
In one of my previous companies we hired a game designer. That was his only skill. My job was to mentor him but despite my best efforts he really was a flunky. As it turned out, he wasn’t really a game designer. He was a chef. That’s right, he left our company and became a chef.

When you send out a blind letter of encouragement to everyone who has ever dreamed of getting into the game industry, these are the people you are reaching. He was a damned chef, not a game designer.

You can’t just spew out all these words of encouragement. They reach the wrong people.
People who are fit for the industry don’t need this type of encouragement. People who aren’t do, and all you are doing is helping the wrong people get into the wrong business.


Part #4: Different Points of View
You also have to keep in mind that it is only a simplistic view in which people ask for help on a forum and get entirely the same response on a subjective matter.
What is the best way to do this? What is the best way to do that?
If it is subjective, the best help anyone can get is from multiple different standpoints.
Some people need to encourage, some people need to discourage. If both sides represent themselves well, then both are beneficial to the original poster who can then take into considerations the cons and pros and make his or her own decision.

I already stated that I disagreed with your post due to blind encouragement, but I also disagree because it promotes a “1 side is correct in all situations” approach.
The reality is that many people have personal issues they want to consider but don’t mention those when asking questions. If both sides explain themselves well enough, the poster will be able to make a better decision based on his or her personal situation at the time. The pro side or con side may not have known about that personal issue, but just because he or she was thorough in presenting his or her side the original poster can make a better decision.

The good comes with the bad. It is not really about people discouraging others.
Honestly, both sides of any question should be presented and considered.


Part #5: Finally
Sorry, but frankly when I was younger there was never any question about my future in the games industry.
I may sound cold-hearted and get downvoted, but the simple fact is that I would have shrugged off anyone who said I was unfit for the industry.
The people who have it have it. Those who don’t don’t.
It my sound arrogant to say that it was never a questionable matter to me—I was going to be in the industry and that was final—but if my story is similar to anyone else’s, those people don’t really care about any discouraging words people may give.
The target audience for this message is slim.
Most people who belong in the industry don’t get discouraged. If they really belong, they come off as such and get treated as such.
The few who get misunderstood and then “bullied”, well, if they really belong then it doesn’t matter to them that some person online said otherwise.
They just know.


I know you want to combat trolls, but your message is an open letter. It is not as if someone is going to read your words of encouragement and then say, “Wait, was I previously discouraged by a troll? No? Okay disregard all those encouraging words I just read; those were just for people who had previously been trolled”.

Some people—and especially chefs in my experience—do not belong in the industry. It is a simple fact that discouragement can be healthy and can be the correct course of action.
Just as in art, encouragement and practice do not in fact a pro make. You aren’t going to draw photorealistically no matter how hard you practice, and practice also can’t make you an expert game designer or programmer. Some people are made for certain things and they need to just stay within those domains. Discouragement really is necessary sometimes.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#29 LennyLen   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3213

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:11 AM

I feel as if I might be one of those who contributed towards your idea that sometimes people here are pretty harsh and discouraging.


To me, your posts come across as matter-of-factual rather than disparaging. I'm sure that to some people they will sound harsh and discouraging, but the truth is not always kind. So long as you are just trying to be honest, without rancor or maliciousness, any harshness that people find in your words is a reflection of themselves, not you.

I don't however believe that your view and Lance's are mutually exclusive. I'm sure there are people out there who could be of great benefit to the game development community who do need a little gentle encouragement at first, without which they could be deterred before they realize their true potential. There are also others who, as you say, will never make it, no matter how much help they are given. Like with all things, it's complicated, and a single approach will not work for everyone.

#30 BCullis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1813

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:11 AM

The truth is the truth, and a big difference between "being helpfully realistic" and "being discouraging" is the sensitivity and maturity of the person hearing said truth.

I'm all for tactful, positive communication, but I agree with Spiro here: coddling those with a blatant lack of talent (like is often seen in the hobbyist art communities) just wastes people's time. Don't tell the chef he's got promise as a game designer when his napkin sketches already tell you he can't design his way out of a paper bag. Tell him his designs are horrible*, so he either takes a long hard look at what's bad about them, and learns, or discovers his culinary passions while he was off being discouraged from game-making.

*The one big caveat to all this: you need to have an explanation for your criticisms. "It sucks" is just mean. "It sucks because there's no flow to the level layout and all the weapons you designed are effectively different colored copies of eachother" is more at the heart of what constructive criticism means.
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#31 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4679

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:17 AM

@L.Spiro - There's a difference between: "Hey. Did you just sh*t on this napkin?" and "Your design/mockup is not clear at all." Some people aim for the former. Which, IMO, is not helpful to the listener/reader. If they are not good, then they are not good. You don't have to coddle them. But dropping a nuke on them is unnecessary also.

There are certain plateaus few will reach because of natural, God-given talent. But to say that practice doesn't make perfect is blatantly false. It may take someone twice or thrice as much time to draw or program at a level someone else does. But what they lack in natural talent, they make up in perseverance and practice. Granted, I sucked as a programmer when I first started. But I am surely far better than I was before because I stuck to it. However, I will admit, I'll never be a Donald Knuth.
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#32 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5720

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

There are certain plateaus few will reach because of natural, God-given talent. But to say that practice doesn't make perfect is blatantly false. It may take someone twice or thrice as much time to draw or program at a level someone else does. But what they lack in natural talent, they make up in perseverance and practice. Granted, I sucked as a programmer when I first started. But I am surely far better than I was before because I stuck to it. However, I will admit, I'll never be a Donald Knuth.


I don't think its so much about talent as it is about attitude and expectations, There is a not insignificant number of people coming to these forums with the expectation that all they have to do is bring a vague idea and other people will make the game for them and make tons of money, They are very different from the people who come here to learn. (Anyone who comes here to learn has a good shot at getting somewhere)

Edited by SimonForsman, 21 August 2012 - 09:41 AM.

I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#33 Telastyn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3712

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

I wouldn’t say it is my reputation, but it is not really uncommon for me to post a reply in the “Breaking into the Industry” section that is extremely discouraging.


That's odd, I find some of your posts to be too encouraging in that forum, especially around the 'how can I work in other countries?' questions.

coddling those with a blatant lack of talent (like is often seen in the hobbyist art communities) just wastes people's time.


Enh. Many of my favorite web cartoons started off looking like ass. Hell, the first 1-2 revisions of the Simpsons and Family Guy look kinda dodgey.

And as a programmer, I know my first... I dunno decade? of code might be confused with line noise.

People get better. Coddling is rarely the answer, but so is dismissing someone outright because they're ignorant or unskilled. Educating them, and otherwise helping them get better faster is way better. IMO, many times that means disuading people quickly and unequivocably from a path that will cause them to learn very slowly.

#34 Malabyte   Members   -  Reputation: 583

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:05 PM

I think it's completely wrong to approach this issue presumptiously, for anyone doing that. As human beings we spend our lives judging eachother all the time, even judging whether or not other people are judging people. I don't know about y'all, but I've experienced many times that people who argue about me or others being particularly bad, sometimes end up being the ones playing world police and poisoning the air. They end up being on that judgemental power trip.

I would advice everyone on this forum the following:

If there is any ambiguity in whether someone is truly being "heartbroken" or not, assume that he or she isn't. It's very nice to be defended by other people, but it can be extremely patronizing sometimes when you catch people trying to defend a position that you do not share. As they "defend" you, they make you seem stupid, childish and overly sensitive. I personally find that 10 times worse than anyone speaking down on me. That said though, I am 31 years old and have had my share life experience. Other, younger members, may not be so lucky and, in their naivety, take unnecessary offence of someone's words. Now, I think most people on these forums are old enough to stand on their own two feet, and anyone younger or otherwise more sensitive will most often (if not always) react quite badly to such aggression - meaning that it's clear when it happens and people can comment on it either way.

However, that's not to say that the problem is to be ignored either. But usually, things that needs to be resolved will get resolved, albeit with a little downhill trip before the next peak. But if the end is good, everything is good IMO. Provided of course, that the end is indeed good.

There's also the problem of culture crash:

On the internet, we constantly have to deal with people from all across the globe and we all have different ways to communicate. Especially considering that 90% of us likely has english as a secondary language. That means that people WILL get misunderstood, so why not stay on the safe side and just assume that ALL negativity boils down to misunderstandings?

The two-fold battle against bullying:

In order to prevent and reduce bullying, there's been proven to be two things that must be done in conjunction:

First, one needs to do the obvious and discourage any form of unwarranted critique. Critique should always be relevant and neutral in that it simply states a truth or clearly defined personal opinion. But even that can be misunderstood as bullying, so it's important to have some clear rules on critique and make sure that newcomers understand the criteriae for reporting people (and encourage them to do so when those are indeed met).

But secondly, discouragement must also be coupled with a lesson in growing a spine as well. There's any number of situations that people could've easily just walked away from if they just let it go. I'm actually astonished by the vast number of crystalline personalities that roam the internet. I'm not even sure if they truly are this sensitive, or if they're merely playing the "sympathy card" as a well-known divide-and-conquer tactic. Too many people are so fixed on "winning a debate" (and I'm sorry to say I've had my own rounds with that myself - hence my current stance), that they forget the most important part - it's just words on a forum. My point here is that "bullying" is a fickle expression, highly dependent on whom you're asking.

There are things that people can say to me, that other people will break up in tears for having listened to. People are different, and we all got our reasons. And I got some chips on my shoulders that some others would just frown upon as well. It's life, we live it and deal with things in the way we've been brought up to do. But respecting some people without stomping over others, is harder that it looks. As such, the neutral stance should always be encouraged - but an active neutrality (stating your opinions on any matter), NOT a passivity to what is happening.

Ultimately, I think it's all a balance issue, but I also think we need to take a pause and figure out what exactly we're trying to debug. Because the way I see it, it's more often than not a "problem" that doesn't require fixing. In fact, it's a problem that we need in society, because downfalls are exactly what grows us our spines in life.

====================

So, after that lengthy comment, I'll revert to simplicity and say this: If there's something I feel is bad, I comment on it. I try to be constructive and concise, but if I end up becoming all emotional only to later shut my mouth when a moderator reminds me - is the situation really that bad?

Just some random, variably coherent thoughts from me. Cheers.

- Awl you're base are belong me! -

- I don't know, I'm just a noob -


#35 Malabyte   Members   -  Reputation: 583

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:09 PM

Some more thoughts:

I think it's easy to think that others are being overly encouraging, if you yourself are being overly pessimistic - and vice versa. I have had an overwhelming learning curve in knowing what the human brain can actually do or not, and I think it's kinda underestimating of nature herself to assume that you need to moderate your encouragements in any way. If things are unrealistic and people are genuinely seeking truth, then it's shown to them constantly anyways. But if people are NOT genuinely seeking truth, then no amount of realism or encouragement will ever save them from oblivion. THEY are the only ones themselves, who can do that.

If I have to choose between two things - I'd rather be overly encouraging than opposite. Too many dreams are extinguished too early, when we clearly are not in the position of a teacher. Let THEM handle the discouragement, because at least they have official papers saying that they know what the heck they're talking about.

I don't know about you guys, but I sure as heck don't know what I'm talking about, 70% of the time. And that's ok, because at least I'm not trapped by the Dunning-Kruger effect like most people are.

Edited by DrMadolite, 21 August 2012 - 12:12 PM.

- Awl you're base are belong me! -

- I don't know, I'm just a noob -


#36 Nokame   Members   -  Reputation: 153

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:12 PM

I remember when I first wanted to create video games. It wasn't about programming them. It becomes obvious, once you begin down the road of a beginner that things become technical and, dare I say tedious, to people that want to "simply" create something visually exciting and/or tell a legendary story. I think all of us are here to do exactly this having persevered, feeling either obligation or excitement while learning how to write code. Because programming is a word that is linked to any beginner's favorite video game, it's an exciting venture (until slammed by a know-it-all that takes too much pride in their contribution). There is a bittersweet aftertaste to everything in life. I think perpetuating negativity towards a far-fetched goal in game development, because it happened to you... is worthless. Cheers to humility.

#37 DZee   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:16 PM

There's a fine line one must not cross when giving advice. Although I will say that these boards have NOTHING I say NOTHING to complain about. Go have a look in the C++ irc channel, every question you ask you get trolled by a C++ veteran for being "foolish", "arrogant" or "clueless". Most questions will also spur a rather aggressive debate on the optimal solution.

I "surf" the web, literally.


#38 dimitri.adamou   Members   -  Reputation: 329

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:15 PM

Well. Sometimes people need that reality, theres much more to life than having things presented on a platter... just face it. To become good in anything, it takes sacrifice and its not all fun and games. (It doesn't stop you from enjoying the path you take however) Maybe Game Programming could even be its own Olympic Sport?

Of course, I am not saying 'troll the shit out of them', but usually it's an answer that most don't want to hear.

#39 Malabyte   Members   -  Reputation: 583

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:54 AM

Go have a look in the C++ irc channel, every question you ask you get trolled by a C++ veteran for being "foolish", "arrogant" or "clueless". Most questions will also spur a rather aggressive debate on the optimal solution.


Then again, just because another thing is worse, doesn't make a bad thing good. I'm assuming you didn't mean it that way, though, so I'm just saying. This isn't a major issue for people above a certain age, I think, but more for the younger newcomers. To that extent, I agree that these forums are nothing compared to IRC and certain other channels where people are, quite frankly, full of crap.

Edited by DrMadolite, 22 August 2012 - 11:01 AM.

- Awl you're base are belong me! -

- I don't know, I'm just a noob -


#40 Goran Milovanovic   Members   -  Reputation: 1103

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:04 PM

You aren’t going to draw photorealistically no matter how hard you practice, and practice also can’t make you an expert game designer or programmer.


Meh. There's no evidence for that. Actually, if there is one persistent characteristic between "experts" in general, it is their years of experience.

I agree that blind encouragement is idiotic nonsense, and that people generally benefit when given an honest evaluation, along with some suggestions relating to more realistic projects.

However, I think you pushed this "natural talent" argument a little too far.

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