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Arena Of Gods - Game Concept


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#1 EngineProgrammer   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:18 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm still studying for the coming 2 years ( Digital Arts & Entertainment ) so I get licenses allot cheaper. Meaning that I don't need to waste time but need to focus on practicing & creating concepts for games.

I am really into Gods and stuff and there aren't really so many games that includes Gods. (God of war & Age of Mythology are cool God games)
So I'm planning to design an RPG game including Gods.

Game Name: Arena Of Gods
Game Type: MOBA - (6vs6)
Game Camera: Second person / Third person / Top down

Game itself:
Everyone knows the Olympic Games? Suppose the Gods are doing the Olympic Games as well. In the Arena of Rome.
Each player can choose a Greek God, which have their own special abilities ( example Zeus: Lightning ).
There are 2 bases in the arena for both teams at the beginning of the game. There is no respawn so teamplay is really needed to defend each other.
When you attack an opponent you gain Experience + Souls. Souls are used to buy items, armor, shields, damage, potions at your base.
Your God can level up through the Experience. The higher the level the more increased damage his abilities have.


That's all what I have for now. so what do you like of it so far? Should it be able to reach the market?
I'm not telling I want to create this game. It's just an idea and if it's good enough I want to spend time on this as free work. Posted Image


Thanks for reading!

Edited by EngineProgrammer, 21 August 2012 - 09:07 PM.


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#2 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:23 AM

As you described it, your game wouldn't be an mmo, it would be a normal multiplayer rpg.

Suppose the Gods are doing the Olympic Games as well. In the Arena of Rome.
Each player can choose a Greek God, which have their own special abilities ( example Zeus: Lightning ).

I may be wrong too, but FYI i think you got the history a bit wrong, the olympic games were in Greece, near the mountain Olymp. The Romans had their "own" gods. With own I mean they mainly took over the geek gods and renamed them (Zeus is Jupiter for the romans,Poseidon is Neptune).

One thing you have to keep in mind, in the mythology Zeus was the strongest god, poseidon and ares were also stronger than the rest. Maybe you shouldn't be able to be Zeus, I think he might also be the chairman of the olympic games. It may be good to read up a bit on the greek mythology.

For the game design... you described the layout of your game, you haven't yet described any gameplay or mechanics to comment on. Could you describe the first 5 minutes of your gameplay?

Edited by Bluefirehawk, 21 August 2012 - 12:26 AM.

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#3 EngineProgrammer   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:48 AM

Ah haha, damn I failed at the mythology. I was a bit confused. Posted Image
So 6versus6 is still a normal multiplayer? Ok. No one saw this Posted Image

I know Zeus is the strongest God, but he also have weaknesses like any other God. And it is a teamplay so 2 Gods against 1 God can make a difference in the game.

The gameplay:
When the game starts each team spawns at their base. They have some souls to start with so they can buy some items,armor,etc.
The arena ( I think this need to be changed now ) is kinda big so there will be allot of running.
Every God has their own stats, Hades will have more starting shields than the other Gods for example. Zeus will have more strength, Poseidon more mana, etc.

The players need to attack each other on the battlefield, the Gods attack with melee or magic, depends on which God you are.
Each attack you gain Souls/Experience, if you are low hp you can return to your base, where your health regeneration will be faster.

Souls: you can buy mana potions, health potion, items like armor, damage, attack speed, etc
Experience: each level you gain you can upgrade your stats. Also the ability spells will be stronger

Hades his ability for example can be "Spawn creatures of shadow", who will help will attacking the opponents. the abilities also have a cooldown.
-----

So if you want to gain levels fast, you need to aim for attack speed. But you also need good armor so you don't need to go to your base each 2 minutes.
An example of a good teamwork is: The melee God takes allot of armor, so he can tank. The other Gods take allot of dps. This way you can kill opponents fast.

#4 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:49 AM

One thing general: If you want it to be fun without a respawn system, you have to balance out the waiting times. A game like that looks like you could have some serious waiting times.

this game isn't a real rpg, it resembles more to a MOBA game, because after each game, your progress is lost.

You have to think about the resource system more. When you get resource per attack, nobody is going to increase much else until late in the match. Also tanking is not encouraged, you essentially feed the other team resource. You can make this resource system work, but it needs thinking and balancing. For example making attack speed increases very expensive.

Yes, Zeus' weakness is to fertilise everything that makes a noise (seriously, read up on the mythology, the ancient greeks were a weird folk), but back to topic.
Since you have a very complex history with the greek gods, it would be a shame to just give them different stats and maybe some different abilities. If you play as hades, you really have to feel that you are the lord of the underworld.
And still you have to problem with badass Zeus. If you play 6 vs 6 and one is Zeus, it becomes a 7 vs 6 game. On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense either if Aphrodite could beat Zeus, even when Aphrodite and Hermes would team up.

But you could reuse your idea, the player is a human, but he choses a god. He/she is then an Avatar of this god, and the god grants the human powers. This is what the greek gods liked to do anyways and fits perfectly in your setting. And with the resource you can buy more from your chosen god.

Edited by Bluefirehawk, 21 August 2012 - 02:55 AM.

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#5 aattss   Members   -  Reputation: 373

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:19 PM

I would recommend making exp gained partly based on the percent of damage done. Also, this sounds a little limited. There are 12 major gods, so you would have to have the option of having a lot of minor gods, although you could also find an excuse to add titans and stuff. However, one solution, that would also fit the op god idea, would be that for some reason (like that they all want equal footing to prove who is the most skilled) all of them are about equal. As such, you could also add demigods. You could also make it so that some gods have a variety of different spells that they could choose from for each map, but they can only pick a certain amount (although to build character, each god could have one fixed skill that all champions of that god must have).

#6 homer_3   Members   -  Reputation: 173

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:05 PM

Sounds like a MOBA like DotA, HoN, or LoL. So yes, it could reach the market. You could even implement it in the SC2 or WC3 editor if you wanted to. That way you wouldn't have to worry about netcode.

#7 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6377

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:54 PM

One thing you have to keep in mind, in the mythology Zeus was the strongest god, poseidon and ares were also stronger than the rest


This is, unfortunately, highly inaccurate, but I can let it slide.
Zeus was the more proeminent figure perhaps in Athens, and recognized by most city-states, but some city-states did not even revere him as a diety.
Careful with these bold accusations. I think the original concept actually work here, especially if each god is there as a champion for its own city-state (which in turn "creates it" through belief). This is very olympic-like as well.

#8 EngineProgrammer   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

But you could reuse your idea, the player is a human, but he choses a god. He/she is then an Avatar of this god, and the god grants the human powers. This is what the greek gods liked to do anyways and fits perfectly in your setting. And with the resource you can buy more from your chosen god.

Cool idea ^^

And still you have to problem with badass Zeus. If you play 6 vs 6 and one is Zeus, it becomes a 7 vs 6 game. On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense either if Aphrodite could beat Zeus, even when Aphrodite and Hermes would team up.

Maybe let's don't think that Zeus is OP. Have you ever played DragonBall Z? I that game even Krillin can defeat Brolly.. :D What is kind of impossible.
So I think I need to make them all kind of equal to each other like posted above. :)

+ Maybe a new idea: on both sides there will spawn minions/creatures that will help attacking to opponents. And if you kill those you can gain Souls ( so you don't gain souls anymore when you attack a God ). ( This is allot look-a-like LoL now indeed )

The will be data saved tho. Reputation, Achievements, etc.
I still don't want to work with a spawning rate, the players need to be careful. And suppose a player is dead, and he could like win +25 rating, it is his choice to stay or leave the game. If he stays and his team wins he also gains that +25. + He have learned to be more careful next time and play more as a team.

#9 Phil123   Members   -  Reputation: 569

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:09 PM

This concept sounds very similar to Bloodline Champions which is a very fun, micro-intensive, split-second reflexes MOBA. For more inspiration, check that out, as well as Smashcraft (a SC2 custom game).

If you're leaning more towards the DOTA side of things, then of course, check out DOTA, DOTA 2, HoN, or LoL. Each one has been very, very successful in terms of popularity.

Edit: Blah, can't get the youtube link to work properly at all. Just search youtube for "Bloodline Champions"

Edited by Phil123, 21 August 2012 - 09:10 PM.


#10 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:25 AM

Zeus was the more proeminent figure perhaps in Athens, and recognized by most city-states, but some city-states did not even revere him as a diety.

alrigth, greek mythology is an ancient soap opera... anyways could that be jupiter then, or did i learn some bullshit in middle school?

I still don't want to work with a spawning rate, the players need to be careful. And suppose a player is dead, and he could like win +25 rating, it is his choice to stay or leave the game. If he stays and his team wins he also gains that +25. + He have learned to be more careful next time and play more as a team.

You first should think about the length of a match. Have you ever played counter strike? you alse needed to play as a team, but even in the best team sometimes a member dies inevitably. In such a game like you propose, dying is normal and you die constantly. What you currently do is punish the player for something which will happen to him more often than not. And when he even has to leave a game where his friends are still playing... seriously?
How you incorporate dying is very important in your game, think more about it.
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#11 EngineProgrammer   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

In counter strike you can die from 1 shot.
In this game I was thinking about allot of health so you need to get like hundreds of hits on you to die.
This game should take around 20-50minutes / game. Depends on the teamplay and how soon someone dies.

But if you don't upgrade armor and the opponent has allot of damage, he can kill you in around 20-30 hits. Depends on how fast you can run away ( by speed upgrades ).
assume that you have 20x more health than in LoL. Looks much but that isn't, because you only live once.

Suppose this set of game:
3 opponents attack 1 player and are chasing him. the point is now that your teammates need to help you by attacking them. If they get low hp they will retreat. Else they will keep attacking you. But maybe I can add something more..
Your base ( which can be anything ) can attack too. With a standard amount of damage. So when you can run at your base they others won't come any closer. This can save you from dying. But then it seems like the base will be OP so there must be a way to destroy the base. So I was thinking about adding 3-4 Towers infront of the base who can attack also. And the spawned minions/creatures are aiming on those. When a tower falls, the damage of the base also drops ( + maybe the range ).

So you need to kill the minions, feed on them, also attack the opponents to gain more experience and become stronger. And the game ends when Or: All the opponents are dead Or: When their base has been destroyed. This can be an interesting game?

#12 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:11 AM

Yes you could die in one shot in CS, but that is not the point. The point is that you will die, even when you play with the best team, even when your team didn't do any mistakes. Death happens. That's why those games are fun.

But if you don't upgrade armor and the opponent has allot of damage, he can kill you in around 20-30 hits. Depends on how fast you can run away ( by speed upgrades ).
assume that you have 20x more health than in LoL. Looks much but that isn't, because you only live once.

So what you have now is a MOBA game with no deaths. Dying is an essential part of such competitive games, and you try to take it out. You increase the time in takes to die (you don't necessarily make it harder to die), but you slow down the gameplay. If you want to make it harder to die, you have to make the gameplay easier and/or forgiving, but that isn't fun on the long run, is it?
What I want to say, there will be situations where the player just dies. Sometimes the team doesn't even make a mistake. This is part of such a game you propose, yet you punsih the player by forcing him to leave, as if that would change anything. Now he has no chance to learn, he has no chance to redeem himself, he has no chance for vengance. All important feelings that make a competitive multiplayergame fun. But most importantly you force him to leave his friends, this is a multiplayer game, playing with your friends is the whole reason to play it.

You can make the "one life" policy work, but maybe you have to change to another type of game. It is especially hard to make it work in multiplayer. You also have to keep in mind that you may have to sacrifice some mechanics for this policy.

In general: punishing mechanics can be fun, they make a game challenging. But you have to be very careful with them, or you frustrate the player.
  • Do not punish for no reason.
  • Punish for a purpose (typically make death not wanted)
  • Make sure the player doesn't feel that he is punished for a reason.
  • Make sure that the player doesn't feel it's the games fault to begin with.
  • Do not punish hard for small crimes.
For good punishing mechanics, have a look at Demon souls.

Edited by Bluefirehawk, 22 August 2012 - 03:13 AM.

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#13 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6377

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostOrymus3, on 21 August 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:
Zeus was the more proeminent figure perhaps in Athens, and recognized by most city-states, but some city-states did not even revere him as a diety.
alrigth, greek mythology is an ancient soap opera... anyways could that be jupiter then, or did i learn some bullshit in middle school?


The problem with middle school is they make an abstraction of reality so that its easier to process, a form of summary.
One of the striking problems with that is that the "classics" (Roman empire and Greek city-states) are very roughly discussed during these classes and somehow it has become an international convention that we pick "painted examples" which are fixed in time and geography.
99% of what you've learned on the Greeks applies only to Athens, 499-479 B.C.
The reason for that is simple: we like to simplify things to what we need to know and for 99% of the population, this will never be a useful information so you're ok with the "stop-motion history" as we call it (the linear explanation of antiquity - middle ages - renaissance - modern era).
Without further driving this thread out of topic, I'll only say that very credible historians claim that the middle ages have ended in the 1900s in some areas of the world. History is not about fixed events, but shifting mindsets and its very hard to paint an accurate portrait of every single day in history, especially to someone in middle school that's probably hellbent on becoming a programmer or surgeon.

Like I said, a lot of people get this wrong and while it is acceptable, it still highly inaccurate.

#14 aattss   Members   -  Reputation: 373

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

How about, even if a god is defeated, it can still affect the match, but only in indirect ways.

#15 EngineProgrammer   Members   -  Reputation: 295

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:40 PM

What I want to say, there will be situations where the player just dies. Sometimes the team doesn't even make a mistake. This is part of such a game you propose, yet you punsih the player by forcing him to leave, as if that would change anything. Now he has no chance to learn, he has no chance to redeem himself, he has no chance for vengance. All important feelings that make a competitive multiplayergame fun. But most importantly you force him to leave his friends, this is a multiplayer game, playing with your friends is the whole reason to play it.


I don't force him to leave, he can also stay and watch the game. And maybe learn from it.
But still, you are right. Point taken. :-) Vengeance/Revenge is needed in games like this.
But then It looks almost the same like LoL.. Allot of games look like each other, but in each of those look-a-like games a bit of the game mechanics has been changed.
Maybe when someone dies he can still get a job in the game, like controlling the spawned creatures or something?
The special thing about this MOBA game will be that there is no respawn(maybe, still considering it now), bases and towers can attack also. And the rating will be saved for tournaments and stuff?

How about, even if a god is defeated, it can still affect the match, but only in indirect ways.

Aattss, that is very very unclear? Maybe some details of what you have in mind?

#16 Rybo5001   Members   -  Reputation: 488

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:59 AM

One thing you have to keep in mind, in the mythology Zeus was the strongest god, poseidon and ares were also stronger than the rest. Maybe you shouldn't be able to be Zeus, I think he might also be the chairman of the olympic games. It may be good to read up a bit on the greek mythology.


Zeus was not the strongest Olympian, he was just the king of one third of the world (Poseidon and Hades are his equals, ruling just as much as he does).

And regardless, that matters not in a game where the rules can be anything the designer makes them.

I would love to see this game come to fruition!

#17 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6377

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:51 AM

Zeus was not the strongest Olympian, he was just the king of one third of the world (Poseidon and Hades are his equals, ruling just as much as he does).


That too is highly inaccurate, but as you put it, this may be irrelevant depending on the designer's vision.




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