24 replies to this topic

[Shaquil]

What a depressing thread... cynicism rains supreme, but it is not all the fault of some, but a corruption of the majority.

I don't think people are all that negative really. Possibly just a bit fed up with the constant stream of "idea guys".

All that people in this thread are really saying is you need _more_ then "just a gdd" to get your game made.
And some excellent feedback on what is needed

It's just reality based on simple principles like supply and demand...

Not to mention the way these "idea guys" usually try to trivialize every other part of game making, and imply that those who don't hold the title "designer" are like mere construction workers building according to the blueprint.

[Caldenfor]

I was not saying that all technically skilled people were incapable of design nor was I talking only about the simplest of games. Everyone is capable of having creativity, but why must those without a technical skill = sugar honey iced tea? One thing that I was trying to get across is that there is a large group of "technical" folks, enough to take notice of, that believe they have the creativety to create the best large game ever and well... they can't do it on their own.

Why is it impossible for groups to offer an olive branch to those wishing to contribute? They don't have to hand over all of their top-secret documents that the world would end if anyone saw, I am not the kind of person to believe in top secrecy for independent games anyway, as I believe that knowledge should be pooled together for the greater good. By sharing knowledge you may be missing out on "the next big thing"(chances are less than .1% that it would ever happen of course), but your knowledge and design quality may help bring about even greater things. Sign NDAs, keep information private from these outsiders if you wish, but why treat them as lepers just because they aren't technically inclined?

The corruption was that society, at least in American society, the individual is held far too high when compared to the collective. People want to help make games, why not let them try? Give them a small project to flesh out, see if it is quality, then go from there. There are those that lack the social support to effectively work alone and they may just need a "team" to work with, even if only in a minor manor.


All of this leads back to the following: Independent games don't generally make much, if any, money. Designers should not expect to be the first to get paid, more like the last, unless they are doing a job worthy of earning their fair share. Game design is generally not a money maker.

Edited by Caldenfor, 03 September 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[Olof Hedman]

The thing is that there are so many that both have great ideas, and can contribute to the production, if so only by having a large purse, or being a great organiser, for there to be much point in "taking a chance" on someone with "just an idea".

I'm not saying he should give up his dream, just that he can't expect to just sell a GDD, he needs to do some heavy lifting too, and possibly expand his area of expertise.

The question in the topic is after all "Is the design enough", and the general answer to that question is unfortunately "no".

[Caldenfor]

The question in the topic is after all "Is the design enough", and the general answer to that question is unfortunately "no".

Thank you. That is the perfect way of responding.

When I mentioned the "put them on a task", it doesn't necessarily have to be a task for the immediate game at hand. Treat it more as a design test/quiz, if they can do well, then perhaps they may be of use again in the future. Getting on a team can be truly difficult without technical experience, but I think that there are individuals out there still capable of contributing. While everyone does have ideas, technical and non-technical individuals alike, it would not be wise to ignore the capabilities of either type of individual if it could lead to a better end result. The non-technical may not be able to contribute any where near as much in the creation, but the inception and further development of the concept is a critical aspect of game design and to say technical people have all the answers is folly.

Edited by Caldenfor, 03 September 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[Carlos Oporto]

I don't think design is just enough. At least not enough as you are describing it. For me ideas just have a maximum of $100 and the execution is the multiplier, read this. Yo won't go anywhere with just ideas, don't feel bad about this, just take it as advice from my personal experience. I had a lot of game ideas and web apps ideas, but since I was not a developer I couldn't make them reality.

Your design doc probably is really good and worth like $100, but without execution you will not have that multiplier. Also games are an iterative process, you just can't follow a manual or design doc till the end, you will change a lot of things in the way. I am starting to work as a level designer for a game, Son of Nor, and I understand that now. I am also learning to code, maybe I will not be the best programmer but at least I can execute my ideas so they become reality and be worth something.

I recommend you start learning how to make simple games, start making small prototypes, really simple games that could be done in a week. You will learn a lot of game design by actually making a game.

Good luck and don't give up.