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What is the guy called with all the money? boss?


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#21 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:00 AM

Either you suffer from delusional disorder or you are just a troll.

I don't know if english is your primary language but from what you have written several times on this forum in different threads you give away a very strong "me against the world" mentality. Everyone else is dumb, irresponsible, should just listen to your advice since you seem to know it all better.

Also you seem to down-vote every single post that disagrees with your views. Really? Is that what you call a discussion?
The fact that your reputation has almost reached negative 200 should also give you a hint that maybe, just maybe, you are the one at fault.


i downvote if you say something offensive to me..
not that points really matter in my eyes.. they have zero meaning to me but i just cant resist pressing the buttons lol

and i dont have any "me against the world" mentality.. and i dont think everyone else is dumb.
i think many don't really "get it" when it comes to game design but that doesn't make them dumb..

if I didn't think i could learn things from others then I wouldnt make threads asking for other peoples opinions and views..
but then they think im close-minded when I argue against their replies... but its other way around like i explained in the previous post.
open-minded people argue to find out what is better.

then theres ofcourse some thing that cant be argued about.. when it comes to ying and yang.
as in different genres of games etc.

Sponsor:

#22 GeneralQuery   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1263

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:02 AM

Also you seem to down-vote every single post that disagrees with your views.

I'd go even further and say that he's using a sock puppet to further down vote others and up vote himself. Both myself and jbadams conveniently had 2 down votes just minutes after we posted whilst glhf was still active in this thread.

#23 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:10 AM


Also you seem to down-vote every single post that disagrees with your views.

I'd go even further and say that he's using a sock puppet to further down vote others and up vote himself. Both myself and jbadams conveniently had 2 down votes just minutes after we posted whilst glhf was still active in this thread.


i actually upvoted one of your posts lol

#24 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19407

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

Don't worry, he isn't cheating the reputation system. Nor do the votes from someone with a reputation as low as his actually count for anything -- you'll notice that you don't actually lose reputation when he down-votes you.

This is off-topic however, and it would be appreciated if there was no further discussion of the reputation system in this discussion.

EDIT: Just to be clear, this is an official moderator instruction to end discussion of the rep system.

Edited by jbadams, 09 September 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#25 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31920

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

Guys, leave the analysis of GLHF's psyche out of it, unless you're a trained professional and he's hired you to do so, and get back on topic, or someone's going to have to lock the thread.

Edited by Hodgman, 09 September 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#26 GeneralQuery   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1263

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:13 AM

Apologies, I won't take this thread off-topic any further.

#27 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:31 AM

ok now that we're back on topic..

the link Simon gave is good.. but there has to be more places I can search for small teams that might not have a company yet?

what kind of tteams is it that need funding anyway?
is it only really big AA+ games that need funding .. because I cant imagine a small 1-3 month game is worth getting funding for because that's something they can do on their free time after work.

any more advice and tips about this?

#28 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31920

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:47 AM

One way to research it might be to put yourself in the shoes of a developer -- e.g. they want an investor, they might google "how to find venture capital" -- and then once you know how a developer finds a venture capitalist, you'll know how to fit yourself in to that process.

Any games company that doesn't yet have an income source, but wants to be a real company with an office, etc, requires investment.
I've recently started an indie game studio, and we've at this point decided to completely stay away from external investors. My business partner was a founder of another studio that got started on ~$1M of invested capital (they used that money to get an office, hire all the staff, buy the technology, etc) and while it was really great to have enough money to run a real games company, the fact that it was other people's money was a real hassle. He would spend about half his time writing up reports and having meetings with all the different investors to keep them happy, otherwise they'd stop the flow of money. With our new company, we decided to cut costs instead of putting up with that kind of intrusion into our project.
So - not everyone that needs investment will accept investment either.

#29 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19407

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:48 AM

Hobbyists will not normally be seeking investment or outside funding, but smaller indie projects do also seek funding at times -- see for example Indie Funding, who exist solely for this purpose.

You're unlikely to find them advertising that fact however, as the general process is that they prepare a pitch and then directly approach investors. Unfortunately it's one of those situations where you really need to become well known and develop a good reputation in the market so that developers will seek you out directly.


To get yourself started building that reputation, you could perhaps advertise and accept submissions. Otherwise you'll probably just have to approach developers directly until you find some that are interested. They very likely won't be listed in any central location -- if they knew they wanted funding, they would have approached a publisher or investor directly rather than adding themselves to a list somewhere, because that's how funding is normally gained.

You might look at projects that are showing promise in our classifieds section, on indiedb and moddb, and other similar places online.

#30 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 684

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

Easy one, the guy with all money is called "Scrooge McDuck"
Can I have a candy ?

Edited by Tournicoti, 09 September 2012 - 02:53 PM.


#31 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6318

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

ok now that we're back on topic..

the link Simon gave is good.. but there has to be more places I can search for small teams that might not have a company yet?


If a small team havn't yet registered a company then they're not serious enough to bother with(it doesn't cost anything to register a business in most countries), Any team that has registered a company should be listed somewhere (The link i gave you covers sweden, there should be similiar sites that list companies in other countries).

If you want to help people start a company then your best bet is to visit various gamedev communities, universities, etc.
I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#32 Alan Greenspan   Banned   -  Reputation: -6

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:34 PM

Actually, he's called the federal reserve chairman. Posted Image

#33 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

Do you think you can make more money as CEO/managing-director instead of investor?

Because it sounds like it's more expensive to fund a company who will probably want as Simon said.. salary per person minimum 4.5k/month.. and then additional costs.
My plan I had before of being CEO/managing-director without knowing it... was to be the game designer and pay a programmer to join me and then outsource art.
I think I could get away paying a loooot less money as CEO/managing-director than paying a studio.

But I guess it also depends how much you have to invest too..
If you have millions then it probably is better as investor because its easier to invest in several studios then.

Also, how do i approach companies that i want to invest in?
I was thinking more about investing in a specific game... not their studio and all games they do.. because its very possible they might be doing more than just the game im interested in.

#34 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6318

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:34 PM

Do you think you can make more money as CEO/managing-director instead of investor?

Because it sounds like it's more expensive to fund a company who will probably want as Simon said.. salary per person minimum 4.5k/month.. and then additional costs.
My plan I had before of being CEO/managing-director without knowing it... was to be the game designer and pay a programmer to join me and then outsource art.
I think I could get away paying a loooot less money as CEO/managing-director than paying a studio.

But I guess it also depends how much you have to invest too..
If you have millions then it probably is better as investor because its easier to invest in several studios then.

Also, how do i approach companies that i want to invest in?
I was thinking more about investing in a specific game... not their studio and all games they do.. because its very possible they might be doing more than just the game im interested in.


The minimum salary you can get away with in Sweden is lower, its the employers fee (an extra income tax basically, its just placed on the employers end and called a fee so that the majority of the sheep won't complain about having to pay over 60% income tax) that raise the costs of employing people so much. Paying someone a 20k SEK monthly salary effectivly costs the employer over 30k / month when you add in the 5 weeks paid vacation(Thats the minimum allowed by law), social security fees (~30% of the employees salary(Allthough it is a bit lower for employees under 26) that you have to pay) and insurances,

adding 50% to the salary is a reasonable estimate of the actual cost of having an employee in Sweden. (it can be a bit cheaper but not by much).

Starting your own business always gives you the most room for profit, (If you own everything all the profits are yours).

If you want to invest in a company or project just contact the owner of the company you wish to do business with and be professional, Everyone will sell you a share of their company, project, mother, whatever if you offer up enough money (ok, some people might be unwilling to sell their own mother, but in general you can buy pretty much anything you want if you got enough money, The hard part is finding the good deals, (Alot of startups tend to overvalue their own company or project and thus won't give you a good share for your money).

Edited by SimonForsman, 10 September 2012 - 01:36 PM.

I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#35 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 10674

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:15 PM

I'm sure I'm going to regret this but... Comapnies like EA, which are often pointed at for being very 'cold' have a lot more guidance than you seem to have.
There are a lot of ways your money could be an investment, so long as you don't get too involved with the decisions. You've proven to be disconnected from the industry, and that is never a good sign of success alone (let alone good working environment).
Hand over your money, I can make something good out of it, but don't expect me to hand you the control over what my team develops.

#36 Cirqo   Members   -  Reputation: 117

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

Hand over your money, I can make something good out of it, but don't expect me to hand you the control over what my team develops.


This quote sums it up just about perfectly. You seem to just want to pay people to make you a game so you can rake in the profits (assuming there would be profits). I don't know how others feel, but that pretty much defeats the entire point of indie game development. I'd recommend investing in Google or Apple if you're looking for profits.

#37 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:21 AM

well ofcourse im investing to make money.
otherwise it would be called spending if i just wanted to make a game.

And ofcourse i want to be able to have final say in everything to make sure even more that the game will make a lot of money.. as much as it possibly can.
The devs are not as good choice to put the power of the final say in.. because for one.. they might milk me of my money by never finishing the game.. not working fast enough.. proloning release dates etc.
and secondly, they don't care as much as me about how much money the game makes because I'm paying them.. they don't get money from the profits the game makes.
So they might be focused more on making the game fun in their interest instead of making the game make more money.

#38 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19407

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:29 AM

they don't care as much as me about how much money the game makes because I'm paying them.. they don't get money from the profits the game makes.

In many cases, developers do still get at least a share of the profits -- and you'll probably find that they'll be more motivated if a successful game will allow them to earn more money.

You would also only be able to impose these sort of conditions if you were providing all of the funding for a project. It's not uncommon that an investor contributes part (but not all) of the funding. You should be expecting to make back your investment, and hopefully make some profit as well, but it's quite common -- especially in smaller projects -- that the developer gets part of the profits as well. It is more common in AAA development that the developer will see minimal (if any) profit, but you wouldn't have the budget for that sort of investment.

It's quite likely the majority of indie developers would simply refuse to work with you under your conditions -- they have other options including Indie Fund, private investors, personal loans, VCs, and Angel investors who might not impose those sort of terms.

they might milk me of my money by never finishing the game.

This is normally avoided by setting milestones that have to be met, and withdrawing funding -- potentially also requiring money already spent to be paid back -- if milestones are not met without a good explanation. It's possible -- and normal -- to enforce schedules without interfering with the entire development process.

#39 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 10674

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:43 AM

This quote sums it up just about perfectly. You seem to just want to pay people to make you a game so you can rake in the profits (assuming there would be profits). I don't know how others feel, but that pretty much defeats the entire point of indie game development. I'd recommend investing in Google or Apple if you're looking for profits.

If this is aimed at me, I think you're missing the point here. I'm merely shielding my team from any dangerous fund-raiser with an agenda. I'm most definitely not in for the money myself (I got a day job for that).

#40 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31920

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:49 AM

well ofcourse im investing to make money

Invest in something other than games. The returns are low and the risks are extremely high.




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