14 replies to this topic

[WildestDrake]

Hey everyone, well I'm new here.
So please bare with me here.

I'm working on an idea.
I've already got the thumbs up for the idea and I've relatively already started working on, got Unity prepared to start writing code in and implement the art and everything else.

Here's the idea
It's a 2D platformer RPG game made with sprites like the classical Final Fantasy games from 1-6
Although it will implement certain elements from other genres like the classic H-games from Japan, like with detailed drawings of characters when you're in dialog with someone else. The combat will be just like any other olden Final Fantasy game.

The game will be comprised of a max lvl 20 necessary to finish the final boss in the game
The play time estimate is aprox 1-2 hours till you reach/finish the final boss (since it's an RPG these numbers may vary from person to person!)

The Game will be created for one of my country's biggest Anime conventions (aprox 2000+ guests every year)

The game will be made in Unity. The assets I will be using is ITween, Orthello 2D framework and A* Pathfinding editor. (For now these are the asssets, any ideas on others or better ones are welcome!)

And it will be coded in Javascript
Now before you start asking "Why the hell Javascript?!" Let me tell you something;

A problem I have in this en-devour though.
I have no prior knowledge of Javascript or prpper experience in Unity overall (only did 1-2 tutorials)
This is one of them:
http://www.rocket5st...e-tools-part-1/

I am currently learning to code Javascript through CodeAcadamy
http://www.codecademy.com/


Now. To the thing I'm here for.


I've just finished the "version overview" of the Game.
As a person that dreams to be a Game Designer/Developer I want to always establish an overview the entire project and production.
(For example, my FIRST Deadline is the creation of the Project portfolio I wish to show other coders to try and get their help in making it real, same goes for artists)
Deadline is for the end of this month (30th of Sept.)

Here is the version overview I've established:
_______________________________________________
Ladder to finshed Game:

0.0: Code heaven
0.1: Basic images and UI design
0.2: Main character animations and look
0.3: makes walls and other object interactivable on a non int. level.
0.4: Conversations with everything
0.5: Doors and walking between scenes
0.6: Combat
0.7: Leveling up!
0.8: First Mission set up
0.9: Save Function enabled

ALPHA: 0.4.5
BETA: 0.8.0
1.0.0 An initially play-able and functioning Game
___
0.9.0 Save Function able! (apply a server)
___
0.8.5
0.8.0 First Mission set up and reaching lvl 5
___
0.7.8
0.7.4 Choosing Skills from skill trees
0.7.2 UI design of the Level-up menu and the choose skill menu
0.7.0 XP and Leveling up
___
0.6.9 Winning (Getting Gil and XP)
0.6.8 Special attacks in the player's command "Summons"
0.6.7 Enemy attacks are detailed (Text pops up when they use special attack)
0.6.6 Include more enemies (min. 5) Look in Enemy designs folder for which ones are prioritized
0.6.5 Functioning Healing allies AI enemy
0.6.4 Functioning AI's in Combat (They attack the support (unless Tank uses ability to take focus on him)
and they launch a special attack every 3-5 times)
0.6.3 Ability animations are enabled
0.6.2 Functioning Healthy bars and damageable
0.6.1 UI for Combat window (with buttons for initiating attacks, and when attacks are launched a bar describes the attack)
0.6.0 Combat window is possible
___
0.5.8 By picking up certain items, or talk to certain people doorways or blockades vanish
0.5.4 Mash up the look of (min.) 5 areas to walk to. (make map)
0.5.0 Enable trespassing between scenes by walking into doorways.
___
0.4.8 Shop functioning (actually adding items to your inventory)
0.4.6 Shop UI Design
o.4.2 Choices enabled in conversations
0.4.0 Core mechanic in starting and ending a conversation is able
___
0.3.0 All walls and furniture/objects are bump-able
___
0.2.5 Have a main character images and animations
0.2.0 Have a meshed enabled walk animations
___
0.1.8 Finished main UI - Party menu, etc.
0.1.4 Have walls images
0.1.0 Have a mesh up of the entrance hall with walls and objects
___
0.0 have the core script in house

_______________________________________________

The main deadlines are as follows:
• 1st of December ALPHA TEST
• 1st of April BETA TEST
• 1st of June FINISHED GAME

Plan is when the project portfolio is in place I will beseech a certain fund that supports projects of all the sorts made for and by young individuals (18-30 year olds) in different pursuits, and me being 21 years old, living in the designated town, making a game dedicated to the alternative youth of the world.
And it being primarily made in cooperation with a free organization (being the Convention organization)
My chances to get the necessary money to pay artists and coders by honorary fees, is pretty big!
By "honorary fees" I mean the more/better work you do for the project the more you get paid.


If you're wondering why the Deadlines are so close to this date it is because this convention is once a year. And this idea is my brain child for next year's convention.
It has become a great deal amongst the head organizers and a lot of people are excited to see it flourish.

But again, I haven't reached the core reason of me posting here.

As professionals and/or people previously engaged in productions/creations in video games.
Do you think this production is plausible?

Or is this project so incredibly far fetched that its' never gonna happen?

What are your thoughts on the general game idea?

Edited by WildestDrake, 13 September 2012 - 02:14 AM.

[Ashaman73]

Honestly ?

Do you think this production is plausible?

No.

Or is this project so incredibly far fetched that its' never gonna happen?

No.

What are your thoughts on the general game idea?

The game idea sounds ok and feasable, but your planing is really way off if you have not team at start and experiences in game development. Alone getting the funding, contract artists etc. will eat up lot of time.

For a start, relax yourself, start with your project, target the convention 2014 and revisit your plan in january

[PyroDragn]

You haven't exactly outlined what you would be doing for the team. Paraphrasing from your post; You're an aspiring designer/developer, you have no prior experience of Javascript and through completion of your portfolio you're hoping to encourage other coders to help make this a reality.

Now, does this mean you're wanting to be the main developer, or you want to recruit a more experienced developer? or are you just going to be a designer and get experienced coders and artists for the production?

If you have no experience with Javascript, but a lot of experience with another (hopefully similar) language then you might be able to pull this off by June.

If you're not an experienced coder at all, then you need to get someone with experience onboard as your main developer, or you won't make it.

Same is true of artwork. If you're going to do the artwork, or have someone in place to do the artwork then the deadline is possible. If not, you need to find someone soon or you won't make it.

I am going to say that I really don't like your production schedule. At the moment you have things like "shop UI design" and "UI design of level up" midway through the schedule. Everything should be designed up front. Particularly if you're not doing everything yourself. Why would you want to design the shop just before you want to make the shop? If you're going to get an artist to help then they should be working on the UIs and revisions throughout the rest of the implementation.

For a start, relax yourself, start with your project, target the convention 2014 and revisit your plan in january

As Ashaman said above, unless you've got a lot more experience and a larger skillset then you've outlined in your post you're not going to make it. You'd be better off targeting the convention in 2014. Although I will say that there's no reason to wait until January to revise your plans.

[WildestDrake]

Hmm..
Well I have already reached out my tentacles out towards the places there are plausable artists and coders far more talented than me.
I am currently just waiting for people to "bite the bait" so to speak.

My personal standing which I intend to be is the project lead, and lead Designer, and as the story writer

together with 1 or 2 others which are already onboard. We are writing the story for the game.

As the Project I'll be managing the funding, the communication between the teams, and making sure that the vision originally set up is maintained both through the coding and the art. And I'll be making sure that the production is maintained and made on time.

As the Lead Designer I'll be designing the UI, Combat system, and the levels.

I have experience as a Game Designer in 2-3 other projects.
Although those were very small projects, and was made within a time-frame of a single weekend. And they were all relatively successful
The place in which I've been doing these projects was the Nordic Game Jam
http://nordicgamejam.org/

Unfortunately the teams I've worked with there always seem very reluctant to keep working together. Primarily due to some other projects they have going on.

In regards to the funding, the project that gives out the money. Answers within 14 days on whether or not they give the money.
And according to the people that work in that exact project (I've already talked with a few of them) says that my chances are extremely high.


By what is meant with the UI isn't that the Design is to be finished. it's that it's actually functioning and implemented into the game.

The design plans with the UI, combat and everything. Is what I'm working on right now.
But getting it all implemented and coded is what I'm primarily worried about.
And I'm just waiting on answer from the artists.

Through talking with one of my friends working in the industry it's been decided that C# is also a viable code language to code the game in.
It all pretty much depends on the coders I am able to grab.
If the majority of talent is in Javascript it'll be javascript if the talent is C# it'll be in C#.
I'll be attempting to get a firm grip on the basics on both.

The only code language I have a little more experience is in Actionscript 2.0


I hope this clarifies a few things.

Edited by WildestDrake, 12 September 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Orymus3]

As the Project I'll be managing the funding, the communication between the teams, and making sure that the vision originally set up is maintained both through the coding and the art. And I'll be making sure that the production is maintained and made on time.

In your opinion, what needs to be DONE to actually deliver on time? What actual tools/strategies do you want to put into place to make sure of this. How will you prevent slips and most importantly, what are your plans to steer production back on track if you have a setback?
Also, which of these three variables do you consider to be the most mobile one: scope (project's features, levels, etc), money or deadlines?

In regards to the funding, the project that gives out the money. Answers within 14 days on whether or not they give the money.
And according to the people that work in that exact project (I've already talked with a few of them) says that my chances are extremely high.

So you don't actually provide the funding then?

Through talking with one of my friends working in the industry it's been decided that C# is also a viable code language to code the game in.
It all pretty much depends on the coders I am able to grab.

And what are your strategies to get this person onboard? Any compensation in mind? What level of experience are you looking for?

[WildestDrake]

In your opinion, what needs to be DONE to actually deliver on time? What actual tools/strategies do you want to put into place to make sure of this. How will you prevent slips and most importantly, what are your plans to steer production back on track if you have a setback?
Also, which of these three variables do you consider to be the most mobile one: scope (project's features, levels, etc), money or deadlines?

What is most important is to have a story, and a method to lead the player through this story.
Next to this is the method to lead the player through the story, be it through interactive conversations, combat, quests or other.
The method I intend to tackle is setbacks and the only way to do it IMO is through sacrifice of certain features, if something is tricky and will take longer than planned to code. Then we find a substitute.

Of the three variables I believe that is most mobile is money.
If someone isn't working enough his full amount of money he gets is initially lowered
If someone didn't deliver on time (Primarily due to laziness and not if it's an actual problem he/she can't solve then) then the money is lowered.
And also more people can be hired like freelancers if something is especially too difficult for the team.

Initially from the getgo the scope is set as small as possible. If more features gets possible they will be added.
The whole scope itself I admit hasn't been set 100% everything hasn't been set in stone yet, but it is being worked on as we speak.

So you don't actually provide the funding then?

The funding is being given by a grant of sorts, a service for young comers in the young alternative youngsters in Copenhagen.
As the subjects stands the Game is for the alternative youngsters and the geeky nerds that goes to the Convention.
So it fits extremely well.

The initial funding plan is also currently being worked on.
And it will be included in the Project portfolio.
Which I just spent 6 hours working on
(still not finished, lol)

And what are your strategies to get this person onboard? Any compensation in mind? What level of experience are you looking for?

Just a slight change " Person's* "
As the plan is to get as many talented C# coders onboard as possible (preferably 2-3 more if it becomes necessary)
Compensation or payment will be given to each individual worker on the team primarily by the amount of work they put in.
So the more and the more awesome work that is being done, the more money will be earned pretty straightfoward right?
I have a planned system of how it'll be implemented in the project's process.

The exact amount is still being discussed, and whether or not if it'll actually be possible in the initial funding.

In regards to experience needed Initially I'd say:
• Has to have worked on minimum 2-3 finished projects. (Project names and/or link to the project
has to be supplied and their names on the actual project has to be verified)

But when I get grip on a Lead Programmer, he'll take charge in making the decisions on requirements on experience.
Under my supervision of course.

I hope that answered your questions

Btw, love your weekly discussions! I'll def. Take a read through them!

[Ashaman73]

Just want to push you in the right direction, because the truth might be too harsh at the moment...

My personal standing which I intend to be is the project lead, and lead Designer, and as the story writer
together with 1 or 2 others which are already onboard. We are writing the story for the game.

Well, this has been discussed a lot here.
In short: Unless you contribute code or art (not story or game design), you will have a really hard time to get other members on board, even harder to get experienced developer/artist . The only other working way seems to be hiring someone, that is, you need to pay him independently of your game progress or success, shared profit is often,well, not very attractive (80% profit of a failed project is still 0).

Compensation or payment will be given to each individual worker on the team primarily by the amount of work they put in.

Have you already talked to a lawyer ? This approach will get you in touch with a laywer now or later. Have you contracts ready ? How will you control how much someone worked at your project ? Or is it your decision ? Need I to sign a NDA ?

[WildestDrake]

Well, this has been discussed a lot here.
In short: Unless you contribute code or art (not story or game design), you will have a really hard time to get other members on board, even harder to get experienced developer/artist . The only other working way seems to be hiring someone, that is, you need to pay him independently of your game progress or success, shared profit is often,well, not very attractive (80% profit of a failed project is still 0).

Have you already talked to a lawyer ? This approach will get you in touch with a laywer now or later. Have you contracts ready ? How will you control how much someone worked at your project ? Or is it your decision ? Need I to sign a NDA ?

Woah woah woah

I think I need to make something clear.
This organization the game is being made for and by.
Is a non-profit organization.
Meaning there isn't any profit to give out to the people making the game.

I'm not even getting any money from putting this whole project together.

The money will specifically go to those wanting to help make this project a reality.
nothing more, nothing less.

Same goes for the organization that will be giving the money to the project. It's a communal group that helps young projects be realised.
They don't expect a profit from the result either.

[DaveTroyer]

...
The Game will be created for one of my country's biggest Anime conventions (aprox 2000+ guests every year)...
...
This organization the game is being made for and by.
Is a non-profit organization.
...

I don't think I understand this completely. So the game is being created for a convention that is a non-profit or is it being created for a convention and is being funded by a non-profit?... or is the game about a convention?...

Either way, I agree with Ashaman, you will still need to get some legal advise, contracts, and NDA's together to keep yourself covered. What's to stop someone from saying that they put in more work than they did and take you to court?

And not to be mean, but you also said you dream to be a designer someday. Does this mean you haven't completed a game yet? If that's the case, you might find it a bit more difficult to find help that will take orders from you, let alone ones that have the qualifications you listed above. Taking the scope of your project and your timeline into consideration and pairing back the parts that will make the project more bearable. That should make it more appealing to potential team members as well, since no one likes to fail to deliver a project.

Again, not trying to upset anyone, just hopefully illuminating some issues that you may face.

[WildestDrake]

I don't think I understand this completely. So the game is being created for a convention that is a non-profit or is it being created for a convention and is being funded by a non-profit?... or is the game about a convention?...

Either way, I agree with Ashaman, you will still need to get some legal advise, contracts, and NDA's together to keep yourself covered. What's to stop someone from saying that they put in more work than they did and take you to court?

And not to be mean, but you also said you dream to be a designer someday. Does this mean you haven't completed a game yet? If that's the case, you might find it a bit more difficult to find help that will take orders from you, let alone ones that have the qualifications you listed above. Taking the scope of your project and your timeline into consideration and pairing back the parts that will make the project more bearable. That should make it more appealing to potential team members as well, since no one likes to fail to deliver a project.

Again, not trying to upset anyone, just hopefully illuminating some issues that you may face.

The game IS non-profit.
The game being MADE FOR a non-profit organization which is an Anime Convention
The FUNDING comes from another non-profit organizion (not the Anime convention)
The game is ABOUT the convention.

As a side note I work at and with the same Anime Convention as an Organizer.

I hope that clears that up

The game isn't on any official major scale, that the court would have anything to be said.
People on the team work on their own merit and they work to what they are able.
As soon as something is delivered for the project the individual will be paid accordingly to the quickness of the delivery.

But it could be useful to have a talk with a lawyer and see if there actually is anything that might be abused by the programmers or artists.
Even though I personally doubt it.

Also.
As I've mentioned before, I already have been a part of several projects where I've been the Game Designer.
Only area I've been able to contribute besides the Game Design. Has been with Photoshopped images or to be precise 2D designs.

[PyroDragn]

The game IS non-profit.
The game being MADE FOR a non-profit organization which is an Anime Convention
The FUNDING comes from another non-profit organizion (not the Anime convention)
The game is ABOUT the convention.

The talk about speaking with a lawyer isn't aimed at the organisation.

As soon as something is delivered for the project the individual will be paid accordingly to the quickness of the delivery.

This is the issue. Who is going to determine how much the individual is paid? Will you be specifying up front how much they're going to get? Can you quantify when/if their payment is reduced, and by how much?

If you tell an artist they're going to get £500 for doing the graphics for the game, then they take a bit longer than planned and you reduce it to £450, then you have to think, will they have legal precedence if they decide to take action?

If you're going to be doing a sliding scale of payment, then you need to ensure that anyone coming aboard is aware of the scale, aware of who makes decisions about the payment, and the criteria to be applied.

[WildestDrake]

The talk about speaking with a lawyer isn't aimed at the organisation.

Yes I know, but his first question was aimed at the fact that he didn't know what the exact details was in that area.

This is the issue. Who is going to determine how much the individual is paid? Will you be specifying up front how much they're going to get? Can you quantify when/if their payment is reduced, and by how much?

If you tell an artist they're going to get £500 for doing the graphics for the game, then they take a bit longer than planned and you reduce it to £450, then you have to think, will they have legal precedence if they decide to take action?

If you're going to be doing a sliding scale of payment, then you need to ensure that anyone coming aboard is aware of the scale, aware of who makes decisions about the payment, and the criteria to be applied.

This I have already described saying that that part has already been planned.
Everyone interested will be told up front about the scale. And how it works.
everyone will be informed specifically on the reasoning and if disagreement happens we'll figure it out on a personal scale.
We're not trying to be unfair in any way.
I know how the process of making a video game possible.

Plus everyone involved will get their name in the game.

[PyroDragn]

This I have already described saying that that part has already been planned.
Everyone interested will be told up front about the scale. And how it works.
everyone will be informed specifically on the reasoning and if disagreement happens we'll figure it out on a personal scale.
We're not trying to be unfair in any way.
I know how the process of making a video game possible.

All we had been able to gather thus far was that "If they didn't do enough work, or didn't meet deadlines, their payment was lowered." You didn't specify any details, so understandably, questions were raised. We weren't trying to antagonise you or appear patronising, it is just an area that could potentially cause a lot of grief so we wanted to highlight that.

A sliding scale like you're proposing is entirely different from usual collaborative "share of royalties" that you usually see. You can't just say "You will receive X amount, unless you fail to meet deadlines in which case this will be lowered." The fact that you've said "if disagreement happens we'll figure it out on a personal scale" leads me to believe that you don't have contracts in place.

I would love to believe that anyone that I got to work with me would be sensible and calm enough to just work through any issues with me. But when it comes to handling money like this it needs to be purely professional, and the process needs to be completely transparent. If you're going to be working with friends, then maybe it's not necessary, but you're hiring employees.

You have to consider:
How much the employee is going to be paid.
What circumstances will reduce payment. (Not meeting quality, not meeting deadlines, less than expected output)
How you determine quality.
What the deadlines are.
How you determine output.
How much payment is reduced for each criteria.
Who makes the decisions on reducing payment.
What the minimum payment is.

and more than anything, you need to ensure that the employee is aware of all of these, and that he agrees; This is usually where an employment contract comes in. Maybe you have everything planned for all of this, but from what we've read so far it seemed like something that needed to be pointed out.

[MichaelRPennington]

I just happened to pop-in here...

Check out http://rpgtoolkit.net. This is wonderful software for developing 2D sprite-based games. It comes with almost everything you need. The only other thing you'll have to download is a music composition software. I suggest Anvil Studio. It already has its own built-in coding language called RPGCode which isn't difficult and has a full reference available to you. Once you have completed your game you can make it into an EXE and distribute it as you please.

This software is designed for top-down RPGs, it can be used for creating a whole slew of games, including a platformer. Are you sure you mean platformer? Because the way you described the battles as 'Final Fantasy', I was thinking turn-based, which would be unique for a platformer.

I just thought it would be a better solution for you.

[WildestDrake]

I just happened to pop-in here...

Check out http://rpgtoolkit.net. This is wonderful software for developing 2D sprite-based games. It comes with almost everything you need. The only other thing you'll have to download is a music composition software. I suggest Anvil Studio. It already has its own built-in coding language called RPGCode which isn't difficult and has a full reference available to you. Once you have completed your game you can make it into an EXE and distribute it as you please.

This software is designed for top-down RPGs, it can be used for creating a whole slew of games, including a platformer. Are you sure you mean platformer? Because the way you described the battles as 'Final Fantasy', I was thinking turn-based, which would be unique for a platformer.

I just thought it would be a better solution for you.

Unfortunately it's not. But thank you for the suggestion!
I just talked to some of the people from the RPG Toolkit community.
And it's not able to create a game that's fully functional on a browser.
Which is sort of one of the core aspects of the game design.

Due to the fact that the game has to have scoreboards/Leaderboards and will have certain aspects of it being tracked player-wise so as to enable prizes to be given out to very active players.
Like say if at a certain date, the person with the most XP earned will receive a free ticket to the Anime Convention (Such a thing is being discussed)

All we had been able to gather thus far was that "If they didn't do enough work, or didn't meet deadlines, their payment was lowered." You didn't specify any details, so understandably, questions were raised. We weren't trying to antagonise you or appear patronising, it is just an area that could potentially cause a lot of grief so we wanted to highlight that.

Yeah I get that, and I appreciate the concern.

A sliding scale like you're proposing is entirely different from usual collaborative "share of royalties" that you usually see. You can't just say "You will receive X amount, unless you fail to meet deadlines in which case this will be lowered." The fact that you've said "if disagreement happens we'll figure it out on a personal scale" leads me to believe that you don't have contracts in place.

No, contracts are not in place as of the moment, if it becomes a concern of the guys helping out then it'll be dealt with at that.
But I will have some sort of contracts prepared on the side, after getting them confirmed of course.

I would love to believe that anyone that I got to work with me would be sensible and calm enough to just work through any issues with me. But when it comes to handling money like this it needs to be purely professional, and the process needs to be completely transparent. If you're going to be working with friends, then maybe it's not necessary, but you're hiring employees.

Not necessarily.
I would of course prefer having mates to help me out with the project.
But if that's an impossibility then that'll be what is done.

You have to consider:
How much the employee is going to be paid.
What circumstances will reduce payment. (Not meeting quality, not meeting deadlines, less than expected output)
How you determine quality.
What the deadlines are.
How you determine output.
How much payment is reduced for each criteria.
Who makes the decisions on reducing payment.
What the minimum payment is.

Thanks a lot for the pointers! I appreciate it greatly!

and more than anything, you need to ensure that the employee is aware of all of these, and that he agrees; This is usually where an employment contract comes in. Maybe you have everything planned for all of this, but from what we've read so far it seemed like something that needed to be pointed out.

As mentioned before, I get that, and I appreciate the concern!