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All from scratch


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#1 LogQuester   Members   -  Reputation: 104

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

Hello gamedevs, I am new to programming and I wish to get help here and be able to finally make a start in my future goal :)
Well, I have planned to make a MMOrpg. Maybe similar to runescape or games like grand fantasia.
My main goal is to create a game. It doesn't matter other types of software programming. I think that the only thing I should focus in is to start programming, and in a future create my own engine.
What kind of languaje I should start with and any books to read if I don't know Anything?
Thanks in advance and greetings to you all!
Good luck!

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#2 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5178

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:12 PM

Read this guide, it should get you started.

And aim smaller, much smaller.

#3 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 17206

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:50 PM

An MMORPG is a very large and very difficult project that would normally be tackled by a team rather than an individual, and is best approached by someone who is already experienced. I think it's great to have a lofty goal that excites you, but I would suggest you will most likely have more luck if you aim for some smaller projects first along the way rather than trying to create an MMORPG as your first project. The exception to this might be if you just want to create a smaller online RPG to play with your friends, in which case you might try using Realm Crafter.


To start out, you'll need to choose and learn a programming language. It doesn't really matter which one as long as it has libraries that allow you to get user input and output graphics and audio -- almost all languages can be used to create high-quality games, and it often comes down to personal preference.

I would personally suggest you choose Python or C#, but if there's some other language you prefer that's absolutely fine too -- just ask and I'm sure we can recommend some good learning materials.

1. Python
You would want version 2 rather than version 3 for now -- the differences will be very minor from your perspective should you later choose to update, but for now many of the libraries you might want to use haven't been updated to version 3.
You can probably just get started learning using IDLE, which comes with a download of Python from the website, but you might later want to update to a better code editor: PyCharm is probably a good choice if you're willing to spend some money, but Komodo Edit is quite good for a free option.
Python was used extensively in the creation of EVE Online, and Disney's Toontown Online.
I recommend the book Thinking In Python to learn the language, and there's also a pretty good tutorial on the official website. You could also try Learn Python The Hard Way.

2. C#
C# is growing in popularity and was used for the game Terraria. It can also be used to make games for the XBox 360.
You'll want to use Microsoft's Visual C# Express Edition, which is provided free of charge, and Microsoft also provide some good learning materials.
Once you've learned the basics of the language you would probably want to learn XNA, and eventually build your game off of that.


Hope that helps! Posted Image

#4 Álvaro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 11859

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:09 AM

I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.

#5 DarkRonin   Members   -  Reputation: 604

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:50 AM

LOL, I remember when I started coding in C++. First thing I wanted to do was create an MMORPG.

Seven years later and I realise that I am never going to achieve this, and to be honest, would not want to - anymore...

#6 n0name   Members   -  Reputation: 225

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:54 AM

I guess Unity3D with C# is also a good way to start...
Lots of tutorials and also the asset store is growing quite nicely.
Lots of free and useful assets there as well.

#7 Joshhua5   Members   -  Reputation: 413

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:27 AM

I always found that creating a Project Network gives a nice visual road map, which can be of great assistance during development.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_network
<img class="UMSRatingIcon" id="ums_img_tooltip" />


#8 !Null   Members   -  Reputation: 380

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:22 AM

I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.


There is nothing wrong with having ambition and a goal, even if it is unrealistic. As long as you keep taking the stepping stones to get there.

But its good to ask people, because then your goal is put in perspective.
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#9 Telastyn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3718

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:39 AM

There is nothing wrong with having ambition and a goal, even if it is unrealistic. As long as you keep taking the stepping stones to get there.


Except that it's painfully unclear to beginners how making hello world or tic tac toe is going to get them to their unrealistic goal since the path to get there is so long.

It causes beginners dispair since they don't see any meaningful progress, and think the issue is that they're not doing well. Achieving goals is important; far moreso than setting them.

#10 !Null   Members   -  Reputation: 380

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

Except that it's painfully unclear to beginners how making hello world or tic tac toe is going to get them to their unrealistic goal since the path to get there is so long.

It causes beginners dispair since they don't see any meaningful progress, and think the issue is that they're not doing well. Achieving goals is important; far moreso than setting them.


I do agree with you. But like I said, although there are many questions like this on this site. It's good for them to be told from many people and get it put in perspective.

I also think the goals of people who have studied some sort of computing subject such as software engineering or computing science (like myself) or are just self learning can be a bit different because they haven't been thought making all the little SEEMINGLY pointless programs that actually teach you a lot about OOP and such
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#11 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5178

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:41 AM

To take the film making metaphor one step further...

If a beginner came in and started with an engine or application ( like say GameMaker or to a lesser degree Unity ), they would actually see progress and be motivated as a result. However in this industry, people have the mindset that they need to start with C++ and creating an engine, which is the film equivalent of starting your movie masterpiece by creating your own camera.

#12 patrrr   Members   -  Reputation: 937

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:05 AM

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Though that sounds like quite an interesting feat.

#13 DarkRonin   Members   -  Reputation: 604

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:53 PM

If someones goal was to be a billionaire, never having landed a job before, would you encourage them to first go for the billion dollar paycheck?

Or would it be better for them to help them earn their first hundred dollars and then aim for the thousand dollar benchmark, and so on...
Along the way they may realise that being just a millionaire might be enough.

The OP admits 'I don't know Anything'. You don't apply for the toughest role in the industry if you don't know anything.

#14 vicx   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

Oh, come on... mmo is just a goal, he will quickly start to respect that word. I used to finished one, but I failed on content (graphics/stats/items) :P
So, the only advise could be - get into C++ (if you want to be more serious in makeing games), alt is c#. Then try to find yourself in Visual Studio 2008 (make at laest playable text game, roguelike/mudlike), then get SDK for DirectX 9.0 and try to invest your language further, straight into world of triangles. Of course that's a huuuge shortcut. Distances between points I've posted are vast like desert. Besides, while writting your first code/projects you will realize whether you're strong enough to pass deeper. The main adventage will be stubbroness :)

#15 snowmanZOMG   Members   -  Reputation: 806

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.


Wouldn't Lord of the Rings be more appropriate?

#16 DarkRonin   Members   -  Reputation: 604

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

then get SDK for DirectX 9.0 and try to invest your language further

Interesting.

What made you push DX9 over DX10/11?

Not saying DX9 is bad. I purposely use DX9 over 10/11, myself.

Just interested to see where you are coming from :)

#17 jwezorek   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1606

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:05 PM

I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.


They don't.

I think that people who don't know anything about programming think that programming ultimately amounts to typing stuff on a keyboard and that they can implement anything since all they have to do is learn the right stuff to type in on their keyboard. Whereas, for making a movie, you need actors and actresses and sets and costumes and you need special effects and exotic locations, etc. All of which misses the point that

1. You now need most of those things to make a AAA game.
2. Comparing programming to typing is like comparing movie making to pointing a camera.

The programming == typing thing really is a belief that some newbies have though, which is funny. I remember there was a thread on these forums a few years ago in which the poster was speculating on how long it would take him to write MMORPG based on how fast he could type -- i think there was a thread like that, though I may be misremembering.

Edited by jwezorek, 18 September 2012 - 05:08 PM.


#18 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5178

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:32 PM


I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.


They don't.

I think that people who don't know anything about programming think that programming ultimately amounts to typing stuff on a keyboard and that they can implement anything since all they have to do is learn the right stuff to type in on their keyboard. Whereas, for making a movie, you need actors and actresses and sets and costumes and you need special effects and exotic locations, etc. All of which misses the point that

1. You now need most of those things to make a AAA game.
2. Comparing programming to typing is like comparing movie making to pointing a camera.

The programming == typing thing really is a belief that some newbies have though, which is funny. I remember there was a thread on these forums a few years ago in which the poster was speculating on how long it would take him to write MMORPG based on how fast he could type -- i think there was a thread like that, though I may be misremembering.




Yeah, but truth is, people think they can just pick up a camera and direct a film.

Hell, I should know better, but I watch so many movies and think "oh screw this, I could do better!". Not to mention all the "found footage' garbage we've been fed in recent years.

/sorry, off topic there.

Edited by Serapth, 18 September 2012 - 07:33 PM.


#19 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5178

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

I would be curious to do a poll at some point along the lines of:


Which do you think is harder:

-- filming a movie
-- coding a video game

#20 Bregma   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4748

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:51 PM

I would be curious to do a poll at some point along the lines of:

Which do you think is harder:

-- filming a movie
-- coding a video game


-- quarterbacking your favorite [insert favourite professional athletic competition here] (and winning)
Stephen M. Webb
Professional Free Software Developer




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