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Ragdoll physics fighting in a RPG?


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#1 cronocr   Members   -  Reputation: 731

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:02 PM

I have designed several mini-games for my 3D RPG (lockpicking, alchemy, crafting, management, etc.), and I was asking myself if it would be a good idea to transform fighting into another mini-game. My basic idea is allowing the player to define the character's attacks and dodges/blocks, like Toribash, but previously to the fight in training sessions. According to his level the player could create a given number of techniques, each of which will be composed of a given number of movements, like Fallout's VATS. I do know the complexity required to build this physic simulation, and if the idea is well received, I'll proceed to build a prototype to test the concept.

My main concern is if the mechanic isn't realistic enough (overlapping joints, weird positions, etc.), but it's still enjoyable, would you like to play this RPG?
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#2 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1190

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

Depends on your audience, I guess the RPG community takes good artstyle and mechanics over graphics anyday everyday.
I presume nobody really cares if it is a pre-rendered animation or ragdoll physics, because when you cannot interact with the bodies in a direct way, Ragdoll physics just makes it look nice.

Comparing Oblivion and Morrowind, the fun of the Ragdoll physics introduced was to put them in weird positions and generally play around with the bodies.
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#3 cronocr   Members   -  Reputation: 731

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:15 AM

Hey Bluefirehawk, so that's a positive vote for ragdoll fighting :)
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#4 Bowiz2   Members   -  Reputation: 114

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:56 AM

I like the idea, however I would prefer if it didn't take many tutorials or training sessions for a player to just understand how to fight. Toribash is a cool game, but my one problem with it was that the learning curve was insane. So if you could make a simple enough system for anyone to more or less pick up and play with it, it sounds great, and I would definitely want to see a prototype.

#5 cronocr   Members   -  Reputation: 731

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

Thank you Bowiz2. Yes, I'm thinking on easier ways for the player to develop his fighting techniques. I want to simplify the problem to angles, speed and strength. The player could just define the final joint angles of the body for a given technique, and the percentage of force/tension applied. This would be the ideal position, but the character's physical condition determines how well movements are executed. The training session would be a pose editor with variable angle and force levels. The approximated animation and ending pose, that is according to the character's capacity to move each of his joints in a frame of time, will be shown like in Toribash. The actual execution in a real fight will depend on other factors, such as remaining stamina, character's relative reputation, luck, etc. There are several factors to implement, and that's why I won't go for the realistic physics simulation, I'd rather work to reach a middle point between Toribash and classic fighting games.
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#6 aattss   Members   -  Reputation: 371

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

Perhaps if the player started out with some basic moves, and could also trade and buy moves from other players (assuming that the body high enough level for it) (perhaps there could be someway to share it even if it's single-player). I do hope that there will be other features for leveling that help with combat. Also, I did notice from watching replays that it isn't interesting if it's in 2D.

#7 cronocr   Members   -  Reputation: 731

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:05 PM

Good idea aattss. I guess if a player has designed a given technique and he is able to execute it completely, he would become a master of that "kata" and will be able to teach the knowledge as he wills. It's just a matter of transferring the ideal pose to another player. I'm planning to make it 3D, not less.
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#8 IanW   Members   -  Reputation: 123

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:34 AM

This is also an idea I've kicked around, but in my view it's a much, much, much better idea to have pre-loaded sets of moves, so you get a new attack, which is formally defined by a script, and goes on a button. When you want to use it, press button, and your character moves themselves in a position to do it.

This is actually how I fight in real life ... for example, this is my left-handed killshot with a one-handed stabby sword.

Start position :

Left foot facing enemy, right foot back and pointed at 45 degrees. Hips relaxed, knees slightly bent.Left hand holding sword, knuckles 90 degrees left,wrist cocked up so sword points at their throat, elbow bent and at about my right hip. Right hand, palm open, knuckles right covering my heart (yup. Its Di Grassi).

Initial move :

Left arm extends in a thrust, probably contacting their sword as they parry (its part of the plan, honest !)

Second move :

Left wrist rolls so knuckles are pointed down. Left foot advances a short diagonal step forward and right. Because the roll of the wrists has avoided their blade, Sword hopefully goes in enemy as the diagonal step beings me closer.

Post move :

To get back into Start Position, left elbow bends and comes back to left hip, right foot makes a diagonal forward step

In a game, the player would have a button marked 'Base Position', which when they hit it would put them in that guard ... how long this takes depends on just what body position the toon is in.

When they are in Base Position, they could hit their Special Attack Key, and it would do this move as described above ... or another special attack they've learned.

A "normal" player *should* just be about to buy these pre-scripted attacks from other players/NPC trainers for XP. Its asking too much IMO to ask "normal" players to script martial arts moves ... but special snowflakes *should* have the ability to script their own moves in a Toribashi type system, and if they work, give or sell them to other players.

#9 cronocr   Members   -  Reputation: 731

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:39 AM

Well in my case I finally decided to make an hybrid of Toribash and classic fighting games. There will be some pre-defined parameters for the techniques, and the combination will give a large amount of decorative poses and movements. For example if the player wants to mimic a mantis, he can choose a similar starting stance and pose (frontal, with arms up, hands down), but also a slight decorative movement like moving arms back and forth and the head side to side. That will do the illusion trick. After that the player can choose the movements that his character's anthropomorphic anatomy is able to perform... in other words, kicks, punches, turns, etc. Everything will be predefined, but blended with the poses. The statistics of the character will also affect the execution of each technique. The part of the opponent's body where the hit lands will be calculated by physic simulation, but the effect will be a matter of statistics. I'm just waiting for Unity 4 that will include Mecanim, a cool animation and IK solving system that will help me to implement this :)

Edited by cronocr, 17 October 2012 - 08:49 AM.

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