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Is XNA dying and MS forcing to C++?


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#21 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3167

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:28 PM

Yeah, I agree with your point to some extent, Jeffery, but Microsoft claims recently to offer strong support for XNA into the indefinate future. XNA still has a strong following, so perhaps demand will send a message adequately to Microsoft? Another thing to remember is that Microsoft just finished a good 10 year or so of heavy expense and delay from lawsuits and is now refocusing on R&D according to their spokespersons.


Clinton

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 19 September 2012 - 09:28 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

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#22 Sooker   Members   -  Reputation: 299

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:09 PM

Thanks for the reply :)
With all this information SharpDX seems to be a better choice for me. I will definitely give it a try.
I can still switch to C++ if I want to. But making a game in C# is way more comfortable for me.

@xoofx: I like it how you, as a dev of SharpDX, interact with the community. This convinced me, that their is quite a well supported community.

We will see what will fill the gap, SharpDX looks to be a good deal. Lets wait for Microsofts move.

-Sooker

#23 kazisami   Members   -  Reputation: 558

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

If C# is your choice as a language, then you can try Unity3D. Its free and its not going to die soon. If you have a good grasp of C#, then Unity can be a very powerful tool for making games and it also supports many platforms. Another option will be to use the C# built in GDI, msdn can be a very good reference for it. Good Luck :D

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#24 xexuxjy   Members   -  Reputation: 652

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:05 AM


Microsoft do seem to be trying to kill it off, they've recently split the creators section of their site into phone/indie games sections and in the process broken nearly every single google link to the data there.


That one is plainly just an oversight on Microsoft when they updated the sub-domains for each section, forgetting to handle re-directs properly and SEO integrity possibly going down the tubes as a result. You can still open the Google links, by replacing "forums" with "xboxforums" (if you're looking for Indie games topics). It's still a bit of a pain to do each time, though.


I wish it was so, but a lot of people (including MVP's) have reported/raised this with Microsoft for a couple of months now and have had no response at all. Not even acknowledgement of the issue.

#25 Sooker   Members   -  Reputation: 299

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:05 AM

If C# is your choice as a language, then you can try Unity3D. Its free and its not going to die soon. If you have a good grasp of C#, then Unity can be a very powerful tool for making games and it also supports many platforms


I don´t want to start with Unity3D. I want to start with a 2D game. anything related to 3D is to far away from my actual goal and it would be overwhelming to start with Unity first.

#26 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:07 AM


If C# is your choice as a language, then you can try Unity3D. Its free and its not going to die soon. If you have a good grasp of C#, then Unity can be a very powerful tool for making games and it also supports many platforms


I don´t want to start with Unity3D. I want to start with a 2D game. anything related to 3D is to far away from my actual goal and it would be overwhelming to start with Unity first.

You can actually make 2d games easily with Unity3d too (Battleheart on IOS/Android -- Look it Up).

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#27 Sooker   Members   -  Reputation: 299

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:29 AM

In every 3D Framework/Engine you are able to develop a 2D game if you want to

#28 zalzane   Members   -  Reputation: 191

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

Whether or not microsoft condones C#/XNA is irrelevant in the long run thanks to mono/monogame.

#29 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5792

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

I think XNA is more a victim of politics than technology. It could have been updated to work with DX11 with relative ease if they put the resources behind it.

The problem was there was a civil war at Microsoft, between Steven Sinofsky and J Allard, and the Steven won. He was in charge of the money printing server division, then took over Windows and is credited with turning the turd ( Vista ) into a gem ( Win7 ), mostly unfairly if we are honest.

There were two competing and vastly different outlooks on the future of Microsoft, they went head to head, and Allard ( Xbox, Zune, WinPhone 7, Courier and yes XNA are his babies ) lost.

You could see the results of Sinofsky's victory almost instantly. Silverlight, dead. WinPhone 7 OS, gone and replaced by Win8 ( Sinofsky's baby ), Zune, dead. Courier, killed off and now XNA, dead. Obviously Xbox is too big to kill at this point.

That Windows 8 has "epic, putting Windows Vista to shame, flop!" written all over it, must have Allard smiling in anticipation. It was enough to make me dump my MSFT holdings.

Edited by Serapth, 20 September 2012 - 12:11 PM.


#30 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:23 PM

Whether or not microsoft condones C#/XNA is irrelevant in the long run thanks to mono/monogame.

I personally think monogame is an excellent route forwards at this moment in time. Plus you have a huge number of platforms available: android, iOS, windows, mac, linux. Its easy to port straight between XNA and monogame and vice versa opening up WP7, xbox 360 and windows again. Then in beta you have PS Vita.

Across the desktop platforms theres no code change either assuming you are compiling to mono in the first place instead of .net. The blog in my signature has information on compiling straight to mono from visual studio, I can confirm the exectuables produced using that method on my desktop then run fine on my laptop's windows 7 partition (which is running .net 4, does not have mono installed at all) and on my linux mint partition.

#31 mhagain   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8284

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:36 PM

There are a number of things going on here.

Firstly, we're long overdue a new console generation. That's going to mean new hardware, new capabilities, and a new framework/API required to code to it.

Secondly, with both XNA and DX, MS are in a position where they have two frameworks to develop, document and support.

Thirdly, MS have been clearing out components from DX, pulling components from XNA into it, and generally acting as though they seem to have lost the plot in some cases (who knows - maybe they have?)

Now, look at the situation with DX versions. Vista brought DX10, Windows 7 brought DX11, Windows 8 only brought a minor version increment.

So pulling those together, adding some magic dust and speculation, my conclusion is that XNA and DX are heading for a merger, and that it's going to happen in (what would have been) the DX12 timeframe, and that timeframe is going to coincide with the new console generation.

It appears that the gentleman thought C++ was extremely difficult and he was overjoyed that the machine was absorbing it; he understood that good C++ is difficult but the best C++ is well-nigh unintelligible.


#32 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5792

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:56 PM

Except of course they disolved the XNA team...

#33 Ultrahead   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:19 PM

If you think of it, Monogame is becoming the successor of XNA for new tech (ANX is another option, too). Say that you concentrate only on Monogame abandoning XNA completely, the only platforms you lose are WP7 and Xbox360. The former is being replaced by Win8 and the XBLIG channel never succeeded. So with Monogame you've got XNA-like code that supports (and will support) Windows (including Win8 for ARM), WP8, NaCl, and many OpenGL-based platforms. Once Monogame imlements its own code for the content pipeline, you can say goodbye to XNA. The only doubt is related to the XBox720, but if it eventually allows C++ for indies then Monogame would also support this platform.

And for those who want a lower-level access to the DX APIs themselves with C#, you can use SharpDX.

Edited by Ultrahead, 20 September 2012 - 01:20 PM.


#34 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3167

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:52 PM

Sooker,

I really don't see MS as forcing the issue onto C++. The C# support is quite strong and growing with Visual Studio, .NET Framework, object oriented contructs, and dynamic writing all being expanded right now. I feel that the real cause and effect is Microsoft keeping the synergy increasing with C# related products and services which is attracting more use of them everyday. Some things are going to fade in support, but they also know that third party things will make the exit of some of their techologies be a graceful one, while leaving the possibility of resurgence open like happened with DirectX years ago. Of course, they would love to see all categories of their products expand. You see, C# is a great language - really is - and more people are using it for that reason and the good support of it. I don't view it as a civil war or fued within MS, but rather the corporation meeting demand.

Well, given the state of things, I would suggest looking into Unity3D game engine and Axiom 3D render engine, both based on C#. I personally am looking into mono and monogame. I am almost decided in using mono with Axiom 3D (porting, .NET/Visual Studio Express).

I hope you work hard at it, stay with it, and get nice results! Posted Image


Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#35 Sooker   Members   -  Reputation: 299

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:07 PM

After all the information from you guys i will definitely stay at C#. I will decide wich framework I will be using over the weekend.

I hope you work hard at it, stay with it, and get nice results!

I will do my best alongside school, job and girlfriend Posted Image

Edited by Sooker, 20 September 2012 - 10:08 PM.


#36 DavidGS   Members   -  Reputation: 114

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:56 AM

Has anyone developed a game using monogame? It looks pretty darn cool. I own a mac and I was very interested in developing a game in XNA and learning c# in the process (I know c++ and Java, so I don't think there'll be a problem). I don't understand why they would deprecate XNA, a lot of awesome indie games have been developed with XNA.

#37 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5792

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:26 AM

Bastion was at least ported using Monogame.

#38 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 712

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

I ported a test game over to MonoGame that was developed using Visual Studio 2010/XNA. It worked flawlessly with 60 clear fps on a laptop (and this was running on mac). Posted Image Id have to say though the game wasn't made of much...

#39 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2207

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:02 AM

The problem was there was a civil war at Microsoft, between Steven Sinofsky and J Allard, and the Steven won. He was in charge of the money printing server division, then took over Windows and is credited with turning the turd ( Vista ) into a gem ( Win7 ), mostly unfairly if we are honest.


it has to be said that the result of this was that MS managed to ship 2 OSes in a row able to outperform the older ones on the same hardware while still adding features, quite remarkable imo, even if we'll never know how much of this progress is actually due to the paradigm shift into native code or just a more strict company guidelines and control over performances of the codebase.
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#40 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

Has anyone developed a game using monogame?

Bastion has been ported from being an xbox 360 XNA game to standalone windows, mac and linux versions as part of the humble bundle and also to NaCl which means it is playable withing google chrome. It is now available for iOS too running with monogame.

There are quite a few other iOS and android apps made with it. Also heard a rumor about a Terraria monogame port.

MS managed to ship 2 OSes in a row able to outperform the older ones on the same hardware while still adding features

I beg to differ. Vista does get too much rep for being awful but it was definately MUCH slower than XP on the same hardware.




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