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Is XNA dying and MS forcing to C++?


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#41 Ultrahead   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

Has anyone developed a game using monogame?


Visit the Monogame page to find a list of games: http://monogame.codeplex.com/

Sponsor:

#42 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7622

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:40 PM

As far as I can tell, the XNA team at MS is skeletal at best. All of the visible major devs have moved on to other projects and there's no evidence that the current work is anything but minor maintenance (get it running on WP8 type stuff). As far as I'm concerned, that leaves XNA firmly in the "gasping for breath" column. MS appears to believe that there is simply no value in developing an API for .NET and DX to interact properly. It's slightly amusing to think that it might be my fault. EIther way, SlimDX/SharpDX should do very well for most, depending on the exact tech requirements.

#43 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:13 PM

So we are getting XNA on WP8....?

LOL. The removal of Managed DX brought the rise of SlimDX which brought the demise of XNA .... which was born from the ashes of Managed DX. Funny how the software world works.

Edited by Alpha_ProgDes, 21 September 2012 - 03:14 PM.

Beginner in Game Development? Read here.
 
Super Mario Bros clone tutorial written in XNA 4.0 [MonoGame, ANX, and MonoXNA] by Scott Haley
 
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#44 return0   Members   -  Reputation: 444

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:30 AM

As far as I can tell, the XNA team at MS is skeletal at best. All of the visible major devs have moved on to other projects and there's no evidence that the current work is anything but minor maintenance (get it running on WP8 type stuff). As far as I'm concerned, that leaves XNA firmly in the "gasping for breath" column. MS appears to believe that there is simply no value in developing an API for .NET and DX to interact properly. It's slightly amusing to think that it might be my fault. EIther way, SlimDX/SharpDX should do very well for most, depending on the exact tech requirements.


Why your fault?

#45 MikeDodgers   Members   -  Reputation: 141

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:53 AM

I will reply with what I know. As many of you may or may not be aware Visual Studio 2012 does not currently support Windows Phone 7. VS2010 is still required. XNA is tied to Windows Phone 7, I can't say for 8. But they do understand there is a large difference between developing in C# and in C++.

But I can say MS is moving more inoto DirectX, since XNA uses DirectX 9, and though Windows 8 desktop will support it, the WinRT will not support it as in not run it. This is due to the architecture of WinRT. SharpDX provides that link for C# developers to use their XNA skills but isnt an MS framework. Managed DirectX did become XNA (XNA was part of the set of .NET assemblies on the 360 including the Compact Framework).

I have attached the model it might help explain it. Sorry i didn't get all of the right hand side but that looks at no WinRT applications.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Creating a Great Metro Style Game for Windows 8.png

Thanks
Michael

#46 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2207

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 03:09 AM

I beg to differ. Vista does get too much rep for being awful but it was definately MUCH slower than XP on the same hardware.


true... I was talking about Win7 and Win8 ;)
Stefano Casillo
Lead Programmer
TWITTER: @KunosStefano
AssettoCorsa - netKar PRO - Kunos Simulazioni

#47 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 712

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Why is it so hard for microsoft to update the XNA framework to directX 11?.

Does anyone think xbox 720 will have a framework just like XNA to go along with it?

Edited by Xanather, 22 September 2012 - 09:49 AM.


#48 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 01:37 PM

Why is it so hard for microsoft to update the XNA framework to directX 11?.

Almost all of the existing codebase would need changing. Certainly a large portion of it.

Does anyone think xbox 720 will have a framework just like XNA to go along with it?

I personally think so.

#49 TheVirtualDragon   Members   -  Reputation: 237

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 03:13 PM

Microsoft killing off XNA...Wow, My friend would certainly be dissapointed. He's a massive C# / XNA / Windows fan and I've tried to get him to learn C++ / SFML / Linux but failed. Also, analyzing what Microsoft do seems fun, why isn't there a whole forum doing it already?
What's This?: basically, it's my blog. Click on it.

#50 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:30 AM

He's a massive C# / XNA / Windows

Well now he can be a massive C# / Monogame / Windows fan instead. And there is no official statement on microsoft killing XNA. With .net 4.5, win metro and sooner or later a next gen xbox they might kill it off or they might just revamp it.

#51 RobTheBloke   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2341

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:30 AM

I really like the XNA/C# combo, although I also really liked the older managed DX/C# combo, and this brings up a small problem imo. I don't imagine that microsoft would kill off XNA, but I would imagine a new version may be released mid-dev-cycle that could cause a fair amount of refactoring on your part (I'm sure I'm not the only one to have been burned by that in the past). If your aim is to create a simple 2D game targetting smartphones/tablets, you could do a lot worse than a C++/GLES combination. For that, you'd need nothing more than a cheap android device (or even a raspberry pi) as a dev kit. Whichever you choose, be sure to wrap your hardware specific sections so you can switch platforms in the future if you need to.

#52 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:21 AM

Not to be too much offtopic. But if XNA is killed off officially, will Monogame adapt its XNA to DX10 and beyond?
Beginner in Game Development? Read here.
 
Super Mario Bros clone tutorial written in XNA 4.0 [MonoGame, ANX, and MonoXNA] by Scott Haley
 
If you have found any of the posts helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking the up arrow on those posts Posted Image
 
Spoiler

#53 Ultrahead   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:24 AM

Monogame consumes SharpDX libraries, which supports DX11.1 and lower.

#54 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:36 AM

Monogame consumes SharpDX libraries, which supports DX11.1 and lower.


Wrong

But if XNA is killed off officially, will Monogame adapt its XNA to DX10 and beyond?



Monogame uses OpenTK for its graphics which themselves are mono bindings for OpenGL. No directX in monogame anywhere.

#55 Ultrahead   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:46 AM

I was referring to Win8 and for the upcoming WP8. See ARMED! game.

#56 6677   Members   -  Reputation: 1058

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

You said monogame. According to monogames site it uses OpenTK not SharpDx. I can't find anywhere stating that monogame or Armed use SharpDX.

#57 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5756

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

If in doubt, go to the source.
https://github.com/mono/MonoGame/blob/develop3d/MonoGame.Framework/MonoGame.Framework.Windows8.csproj
The Win8 target clearly uses SharpDX.

#58 ProfL   Members   -  Reputation: 575

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:42 PM

it makes me always sad to see how some people and companies try to handle languages and libs like religions :(
I like c++, yet for WP7 and Xbox-Indie I'd be forced to one particular language, although there is no reason something else wouldn't run. just like they've tied DX10 to Vista and a lot of morons spread the word "it's for technical reason, superior driver model and..." while every programmer knows that an API is just a thin interface, not really related to a driver model or internal implementations (that's why there is an interface).
While I'm sad for you XNA guys if it would be really true that it 'dies", I hope people learn from it, to not stick to one language, to one api, one lib, especially if it's build solely by one company and their marketing department.
Standards are the way to keep your freedom of choosing what and how you want to develop.

crossing fingers for you XNA fans :)

#59 Serapth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5756

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:51 PM

especially if it's build solely by one company and their marketing department.
... snip ...
Standards are the way to keep your freedom of choosing what and how you want to develop.


The first part of your post wasn't bad, but that one line was idiotic and trollish.

The second line is equally silly. You do realize that C# is ratified as a ECMA standard language right? By your logic people *SHOULD* use C# for exactly this reason.

When it comes to graphics libraries, it was actually being an open standard that caused OpenGL to stumble and DirectX to become king. D3D pre-9 were basically shit, and D3D9 took a number of revisions to get to the point of being better than OpenGL. However, they could move quickly and did, while OpenGL died a slow death by committee. The move to a programmable pipeline is the only thing that saved GL in the end.

#60 Ultrahead   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

You said monogame.

Yes, but I was referring to the part of it related to Win8 and WP8. Needless to clarify that I was not referring to OpenGL-based platforms (nor DX9 ones like WinXP).

Thanks Serapth for posting the link.




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