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Feedback on Art?


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#1 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

Hello! I am very much new here and I’ve never been part of anything like this forum so I’d like to post my art up and maybe pick the brains of whoever takes a look at them. Let me start off with something hand drawn



Here is an image I drew for a realistic spin on an animated character to show my ability in fantastic characters with more realistic features.



Wolverine in his comic costume. I will be switching to me desktop to have more images to show, please let me know what you think. Thank you





(This topic seemed like a good idea because I’ve been getting rejections from a couple of companies and I figured this would be a good place to get some feedback from a game perspective not an art perspective. )

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#2 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:07 PM

This is a spin on the concept art for the Shogun total war series

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#3 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

This is line art for my Blizzard Rejection gallery on my art page. each time i get a rejection from Blizz i either make a doodle or an actual piece based of the company ( which is WoW mostly) this piece is getting color and shadow later on posted an updated pic of her.

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#4 DaveTroyer   Members   -  Reputation: 1052

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:27 PM

Hi Aluisin!

Looking at your art, you have a good eye for it, though I can tell you a couple things right away that may be useful.

One thing is take time practicing anatomy.

Take a look at your first illustration of Wolverine. His right arm looks off. That's because from that position with his arm up and back, the trap (muscle connecting the neck to shoulder) would be more flexed and the shoulder would be higher up, thus effecting the clavicle rotation of the rip cage. Also, Wolverine is supposed to be kinda short, so making his head a little larger will help show that. If you make 2 characters with both the same size bodies, but different size heads, the one with the smaller head will look bigger and vise-versa.

Next you might want to do some research on all of your subject matter.

If you look at your samurai, he's mostly in proportion. But, his sword and sword hand don't quite seem right. The hand is a simple fore-shortening error that is easy to fix. For the sword though, it is always on the left for Japanese swords and it's a bit thin. In Kendo and all other Japanese sword arts, the left hand is always at the bottom of the handle, with the right by the tsuba or hilt and the blade is facing up while in the saya or scabbard. I know it seems like things that don't matter, but having that little bit of research can really help and knowing the way it's supposed to be can help you define why you change it.

And maybe you'll want to work on shading and color.

Take into consideration the environment that the character is in. If the samurai is over looking the ocean from a high cliff in the morning, his shading could be more dramatic and with hues of lighting reflecting off his lacquered armor. Shading can also be a strong tool for pushing a good piece to an excellent one. For instance, your Wolverine is good even in spite of what I pointed on anatomy wise because of good shadowing.

So to bring it all together, look at the shoulder of your elf. It looks off, doesn't it? If you define the triceps coming off from the back of her shoulder, have the front of her shoulder go into the upper pectoral like it does, shade it like you can do, and create a reason for color choices like the environment, I think you'll like the results.

And maybe lower the detail a little bit in the belts...it's a little busy and makes it harder for the viewer to define what they're looking at.

If you practice these things, I think it'll catapult your work to a new personal best. Oh and don't forget to take breaks from drawing all the time. It's just like working out, you can get burnt out and stuck doing the same thing over and over without making progress if you don't give yourself a break every so often.

Hope this helps and good luck!

(Note: I have 12 years professional experience as an artist and illustrator and have a formal education in art theory, practice, and history. Just wanted to let you know I'm not just some guy rambling. Posted Image )

Edited by DaveTroyer, 24 September 2012 - 01:30 PM.

Check out my game blog - Dave's Game Blog


#5 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 18498

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:14 PM

I like the second image alot - it looks cool. The legs seem too straight (no visible knees) and thin, though.

Not being an artist, I can't critique it too well, though I will mention that taking a picture of your art (Wolverine) with a cell phone camera doesn't seem too professional. Scanners aren't too expensive (compared to other electronics), and provide more evenly distributed lighting and higher quality resolution.
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#6 Prinz Eugn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3578

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

Not really my area of art, and I'm just a hobbyist so take these with a grain of salt...
  • Your shading is somewhat weak, you need to get used to using slightly different colors for dark areas versus light areas. For example, the traditional dynamic is for cooler shades in the dark and warmer shades in the light. Dissect some concept art scenes with complex lighting and you'll see what I mean (I'll try to post some examples when I get home).
  • Original designs. Do you have more original designs? I mean, it's nice to prove you can replicate a character, but for artists I'm sure they're looking more for the capability to create completely original characters and items.
  • Dave's post.
  • Do you have an online portfolio? I believe that's a de facto requirement for being an artist nowadays...
  • Have you done a lot of drawing with a tablet? From what I've seen a lot of concept art is drawn with a tablet directly, not on paper.
  • Have you done concept work for other people? It's a very different experience to make something with direction from another person than do something for yourself. It'd be great interview fodder at any rate ("The client wanted A, I made what I thought was A, but...")

Also, Blizzard? From a get-a-job standpoint Blizzard's probably one of the worst places to look since they're Blizzard. They're famous enough that I'm sure they can afford to hire only people with 15 years of experience and have work hanging in the Guggenheim. Another random thought is that game companies often skip around genres, which requires a great deal of flexibility, so make sure you can draw a wide range of styles and subject matter (fantasy, sci-fi, steam punk, western, etc.).

-Mark the Artist

Digital Art and Technical Design
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#7 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:52 PM

Thanks to you guys, Dave, about the wolverine I guess he does seem a bit bigger thanks for pointing that out and I do need to stop being so shy with experimenting with color and shading. Prinz I do have online portfolio filled with original characters. As for the concept work for others, that is the only thing I seem to get usually only people come to me for anything the problem I have is with companies.

I am actually very big on making things for others and just drawing my own ideas. The Night Elf is actually of my own design the only thing that I’ve brought over from WoW is the shoulder, ear size, and skin color; the markings have been altered and everything else was mine.

I’ve been working with my tablet for a while now but the majority of my sketch work is traditional. My painted work is done on my tablet mostly

Edited by Aluisin, 24 September 2012 - 11:53 PM.


#8 Prinz Eugn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3578

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

Okay, yeah, it just wasn't clear from what you posted, so my comments were shots in the dark. Can you post the link to your gallery? Your work is very good; I hadn't noticed any anatomy problems until Dave started pointing them out.

-Mark the Artist

Digital Art and Technical Design
Developer Journal


#9 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:11 AM

the link has been sent to you.

#10 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7122

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:17 AM

Please don't feel offended, but I will give some harsh comments about otherwise really good work, hopefully pushing you in the right direction. Posted Image

The issue with your images is not the execution quality, but the lack of individuality. The first one seems like a copy from comic book, there's nothing special about it, in harsh words: where is the difference to a photocopier ? The second image is ok, but the third one is really bad. Not from an execution level, but this kind of models/concepts are often called p-o-r-n-elfs (half-naked, female elf characters, trying to hide lacking anatomy skils by disguising them as fantasy), a clear sign of a unexperienced artist.

There was once an article on gamasutra about someone who checks up artists applications, and this p-elf submission was more or less a sure reason for rejection.

To improve your skills, go over to a pure game artist forum, post lot of your work and work hard on improving it. Polycount has a great forum which is littered with professional game artist. Btw. blizzard recruiter are scanning the polycount forum and a lot of folk over there has been recruited to work on blizzard projects.

Good luck Posted Image

#11 riuthamus   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4827

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:57 AM

I am not a fan of the first two, they seem childish and almost half done. The blizzard fanart is nice for lineart but it lacks some finer details. Are you practicing your coloring? Something I have found in my own journey is the use of photoshop and speed art. I use to think such things were silly and pointless but they can seriously help you to learn the tech that make up the good art. I would also strongly encourage you to ensure you look up anatomy and lighting. These are the two most common rookie mistakes. You can have all the design and concept you want but if your fundamental understanding of those two things is lacking it will show in your art. Good luck and keep at it.

#12 FLeBlanc   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3101

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

You wanted feedback from a game point of view, so here is mine. When you are doing concept art for a video game, you need to keep a few things in mind. First, if it's character designs or environment designs, eventually somebody will have to come along behind you and realize your sketches as concrete assets. In order to help them in this, you should try to practice your skills at providing them what they need. Some front and side sketches, for example, in a relatively neutral pose, as well as some sketches of them in action so the modeler can see where the lines and bends should flow. The samurai is a good start, but the crouched pose of Wolverine and the... sexy?... pose of the porn elf mean that in order to get a good read on the character, the modeler is going to need a few more sketches.

Second, color and shading are important. Line art is great to start with, but the modeler will need more to give him a better sense of the form and shape he needs to recreate. Again, of the three, the samurai is the best one here. You could just about set that guy as a background and start pushing verts around, although the darks are a bit too dark to really get a sense of the shape.

This becomes even more important when you are doing other than human-ish characters, as then the only reference the modeler will have to see the form of the character will be your sketches. With the porn elf, the modeler could just grab some random porn elf reference off the web and tweak to suit, but when the time comes to do beasts and animals, demons and ghouls, then he will need you to give him good references.

Lastly, and I know this really doesn't need to be said, but you need more. More sketches, more concepts, more, more, more. A good hiring manager will be looking for someone who can do work to spec, rapidly and efficiently. Someone who can work quickly, rather than agonizing over each individual sketch. You need a good, instinctive understanding of anatomy (both human and animal) in order to do this effectively. If you are always tweaking and fiddling with your anatomy, trying to get this or that proportion just right, then you need to practice more. Throughout the course of development, you will probably sketch the same character a dozen times, maybe more for main characters. At a certain point, it stops being a creative exercise and becomes instead a technical one, and so you need to be able to do the work even when you aren't artistically inspired and floating on cloud nine by the wonderful vision you are setting down on paper. If you can still do a quality and informative sketch of a character after you have already sketched him in 15 different iterations and can no longer stand to even look at him without throwing up in your mouth a little, then you'll do okay.

#13 BCullis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1813

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:11 PM

<snip> Draw more! </snip>

This. VERY MUCH this.

Blunt-force-trauma level honesty approaching:

I'm surprised you applied to any company with the portfolio you have. Are you an art student? Did you ever get a portfolio review done of your work?

I'm assuming your portfolio material is mostly what you have posted on deviantart, so correct me if I'm wrong.

All your pieces are single characters, mostly fanart, mostly black and white pen drawings floating on a blank page. That isn't going to cut it. You do want to tailor the portfolio you send to the job you're applying for, but I can't imagine any company paying money for your work as it stands. Here's the deal:

Do a LOT more practice: life studies, anatomy studies, gesture drawings, detail studies, boring tedious practice stuff, stuff you're never going to show anyone because it's not about getting pageviews but about making your art better.

Start pushing yourself outside of the single-character-mostly-on-the-page template. I saw one, maybe two life drawings when I scanned your gallery. Start churning those things out. Life drawing is great, it forces you to look at a 3 dimensional figure in space and capture those elements that make them more believable on the page.

Start trying other content and media. Paint something. Paint a bunch of somethings. Look into color theory. Throw together some perspective-based environment sketches. Draw a hundred control panels (something I'm doing right now: practicing my techy prop design). Fill entire pages with thumbnail sketches and sillhouettes of characters. Utilize resources out there that force you to complete 30-second gesture drawings. Do more with your talent. You have it, but it's stuck in this tiny little realm of character-based fan art, and it shows because the few times you branch out, it looks more amateur than your other stuff. (The life drawing was actually pretty good, though, I can't say it's all bad).

Start scanning your work instead of taking a photo.

Stop applying to Blizzard. Seriously. You're not at that level. Save yourself the hassle. And save their art director the hassle.

If you're not a member of either, sign up at conceptart.org and Satellite Soda. The former is chock-full of artists pushing themselves every day. Just browse the Sketchbooks forum to see what some people do to keep progressing their skill. The latter is full of blunt honest criticism and an insanely talented crew of artists in industry jobs as well as amateurs looking for said scathing criticism.

You're not bad, but it's not polished or professional-level.
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#14 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3133

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:18 PM

I like your style. You have an interesting imagination. I expect that you will continue to grow and reach your goals. The positive attitude to look for suggestions and criticism of your work is very commendable and you will go far with it. Posted Image

Focusing on very refined final works and making the anotomical proportions more exact would increase the probability of acceptance of your works. The shoulders on the first three images need correction, for example. It is perfectly fine to use a real life model image as a guide in your character making for the proportions. Try creating absolutely unique but captivating characters. Some of the major features of your characters are similar to well known ones which already exist.

Companies are looking for very unique works of art for their games, so you need to show them a strong pattern of creating original character concepts.

This advice is coming from my being two years as semi-professional 2D and 3D artist putting content into games.


Keep them coming! You are making wonderful progress! Posted Image


Clinton

Edited by 3Ddreamer, 26 September 2012 - 08:32 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#15 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

the image i am going to post next is of a Viera PLEASE don't think i made her half naked on purpose, it's kind of the way they dress in FF 12 which is the version i am going to be using, i did think that she was a little too skimpy so i gave her some armor i liked which i borrowed from assassin's creed. once i feel more confident i will post my original works. but thanks for the feed back, i think i will make a section in my drawings for P-elves. (just kidding)

#16 Aluisin   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:14 AM

alright here she is Viera's Creed. on your mark, get set, go!

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#17 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3133

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Oh! Nice contrasts between the femininity and the warrior duty which are almost opposites in spirit but necessarily combined in the character. Another contrast between youth and combat is interesting. Good that you correctly perceived the lower jaw line on her left side of the face. Because her head is slightly turned, her right cheek obscurs the right lower jaw bone line. This is correct and shows that you are ready for any such perception and perspective challenges. Areas of dense detail may receive clarity by contrasting the elements with texture, hue, shading, and so forth, which has me curious how you will interpret them.Posted Image

Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#18 Animate2D   Members   -  Reputation: 182

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:07 AM

Looks good to me. Keep up the good work.




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