Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


can you copyright a game combat system?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
28 replies to this topic

#21 Zouflain   Members   -  Reputation: 532

Like
3Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:31 PM

omg they have patent on that?
So other games cant use that kind of system with the recharging meter for when they can do another action?
Unless they pay squareenix?

that system is badass imo.
This is why i want to be able to patent a combat system i create...

What license did they choose to put on the active time battle system?

You really want to stifle game creation that badly? Personally, finding out about SE's patent makes me glad I haven't played many of their games. People wont buy a license for it, they just wont use it and games will suffer in general as a result. How many JRPG's do you see using that system that aren't from SquareEnix? I can think of none. Why? I'd wager it's because they'd rather use an alternative than pay SE anything. It's because of patent mongering like this that modern consoles don't have haptic (vibrational) feedback and a whole host of other things. Also consider that patents don't help you (the small firm) the way you think they'll help you - just consider that even if you did create a revolutionary idea that some major player player in the industry wanted to use, they can always bog you down in a legal quagmire and survive the costs a lot longer than you can to actually enforce your patent. Unless you have significant financial backing, the only people you will prevent from using anything are other small firms. Is that really who you're afraid of?

This and other posts you've made make you seem as though you believe you have The One Ideatm that everyone is just waiting to steal. This is not and just never is the case, and all you're likely to do is cause yourself a lot of wasted effort and cash. I strongly suggest you read the stickied posts in the Game Design forum which talk about this.

Sponsor:

#22 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

Like
-2Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:40 PM


omg they have patent on that?
So other games cant use that kind of system with the recharging meter for when they can do another action?
Unless they pay squareenix?

that system is badass imo.
This is why i want to be able to patent a combat system i create...

What license did they choose to put on the active time battle system?

You really want to stifle game creation that badly? Personally, finding out about SE's patent makes me glad I haven't played many of their games. People wont buy a license for it, they just wont use it and games will suffer in general as a result. How many JRPG's do you see using that system that aren't from SquareEnix? I can think of none. Why? I'd wager it's because they'd rather use an alternative than pay SE anything. It's because of patent mongering like this that modern consoles don't have haptic (vibrational) feedback and a whole host of other things. Also consider that patents don't help you (the small firm) the way you think they'll help you - just consider that even if you did create a revolutionary idea that some major player player in the industry wanted to use, they can always bog you down in a legal quagmire and survive the costs a lot longer than you can to actually enforce your patent. Unless you have significant financial backing, the only people you will prevent from using anything are other small firms. Is that really who you're afraid of?

This and other posts you've made make you seem as though you believe you have The One Ideatm that everyone is just waiting to steal. This is not and just never is the case, and all you're likely to do is cause yourself a lot of wasted effort and cash. I strongly suggest you read the stickied posts in the Game Design forum which talk about this.


you dont really answer any question i have.
you just say negative things like i have a bad idea and well you did say something that has been said already that it costs much money to be in a court.


so back to my questions i want to add one omre question.
because that system is really interesting tbh.
Where can i read about it more?
and what if i hadnt made this thread and someone replied telling me about it.
what if i had made that system not knowing it existed alrady.
what happens then?
where can u see a list of all patented systems?
so someone doesnt accidentally create a game with a system thats patented.

im really intersted in that system tbh
what would i have to do to use that?
how big alteration would i have to do so its not covered by their patent anymore

#23 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

I also looked at another combat system they have patented.

Charged time battle

Final Fantasy Tactics introduced the Charge Time Battle (CTB) system. It was designed by Hiroyuki Itō, who also created the Active Time Battle (ATB). In this system, "Charge Time" (CT) meters fill up to 100 to then allow each character to take different actions. The system has since been used in a modified form in both Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift.


That sounds very similar to what is popular in some games.
Kind of like the warrior rage meter in WoW.

Or even more similar to the ultimate ability in Bloodline Champions.

I guess wow made it different enough that they aren't using the patent.

but Bloodline champions is amazingly similar to this description.
Do you think they had to pay them?
Or maybe they have royalty free license?

#24 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

Like
-2Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

omg..

REAL TIME BATTLE!

The Real Time Battle (RTB) system is a battle system introduced in Final Fantasy XI and was designed by Akihiko Matsui, who created the battle system for Chrono Trigger. The RTB system replaces the Random Encounter that has featured in past Final Fantasy games, instead monsters are found freely roaming areas and are seamlessly engaged.
As the battle takes place without a separate battle screen loading one is free to move around the landscape during battles, interact with other players or avoid battles altogether. Monsters may also attack players without provocation, retaining a hint of random encounters. Characters start attacking automatically once they are in combat with an enemy, and special commands and magic can be inputted by the player at any time. Many items, spells and abilities used during battle have a casting time or delay to use once activated, similar Active Time Battles.



ACTIVE DIMENSION BATTLE!

The Active Dimension Battle (ADB) system is the evolution of the Active Time Battle (ATB) system and designed by Hiroyuki Itō, the original creator of the ATB system. It was first used in Final Fantasy XII. The ADB system eliminates random battles; enemies are fully visible on the field before they are engaged in battle and so the player has a choice of if they want to fight them or not.
The battles take place on the field with no separate battle screen and there is no transition between exploration and battle; ADB makes battles completely seamless. The system also includes the ability for the player to still have full control over character movement while currently engaged in battle. The distance between party members and enemies also influences battles as various spells and abilities now have an Area of Effect (AoE). The addition of AoE simply means that party members and enemies need to be within a certain range of each other for their spells and abilities to hit.



Almost all games have used this combat system that Akihiko Matsui and Hiroyuki Itō has created.
Actually their systems is almost completely identical at my first read through.
How can they patent so identical systems?



And here is ...

COMMAND SYNERGY BATTLE!

Command Synergy Battle (CSB) is the name (declared in-game) of the system used in Final Fantasy XIII and in Final Fantasy XIII-2, designed by Toshiro Tsuchida. It derives the flow of time from ATB as each character has their own ATB gauge. The ATB gauge in turn acts like an action point meter that's divided up into equal sections (a similar system was used in Enix's game Robotrek).
Each action consumes a portion of the ATB gauge, for example attacking consumes one point, while casting a powerful spell consumes three. Commands can be chained so as long as there's enough action points. When the player decides on what commands to take, the player presses another button to execute the commands for the character to do. If the player executes the chained commands without filling all ATB slots, the unused slots will be filled at the start of the next turn. Unlike regular ATB, the player is only able to control the actions of the party leader.
At the end of each battle, the player is judged on a rating of zero to five stars. In Final Fantasy XIII, this rating is based on a comparison between the party's power and battle duration; while in Final Fantasy XIII-2, only battle duration is ranked.



A game called "hero academy" is using this system.
Did they pay them?

Edited by glhf, 29 September 2012 - 02:14 PM.


#25 bschmidt1962   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1718

Like
3Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:44 PM

I was thinking of creating a combat system


If you have a "system" for doing things, then what you need is a patent, not a copyright. A patent, unlike a copyright, is not automatic.
you need to:
-- Do a search for 'prior art'-- to make sure that this system hasn't been done before
-- put your system into practice-- that can either by having a working system, or by creating a detailed specification. It needs to be detailed enought that someone "skilled in the art" could duplicate it after reading your document
-- Hire an attorney to draft a patent application based on your detailed specification.
-- File it with the USPTO (US Patent/Trademark office)... and/or other international equivalents.

Figure on spending between $8,000-12,000 on the above.

Regarding the little mini-thread on "free legal advice in a forum." The reason you do not want to do that is that legal outcomes and decisions can be greatly affected by seemingly insignificant details. A Forum conversation is a terrible way to try to get enough details on a particular case to do be able to draw any clear conclusions.
So forums are great for general suggestions, but you should always go to an attorney (who will talk with you and get enough specificac details to give you proper advice).

Brian Schmidt
GameSoundCon San Francisco
Oct 24,25
www.GameSoundCon.com

Brian Schmidt

Executive Director, GameSoundCon:

GameSoundCon 2014:October 7-8, Los Angeles, CA

 

Founder, EarGames

Founder, Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC

Music Composition & Sound Design

Audio Technology Consultant


#26 mholmes   Members   -  Reputation: 189

Like
-4Likes
Like

Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:17 PM

You can not copyright or patient a concept or idea. You can copyright/patient your source code. This is your only real legal protection aginst "cloning". However, others can make simular products based off your concept/idea but it can not be identical.

#27 glhf   Banned   -  Reputation: -585

Like
-1Likes
Like

Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:03 AM

I was thinking of creating a combat system


If you have a "system" for doing things, then what you need is a patent, not a copyright. A patent, unlike a copyright, is not automatic.
you need to:
-- Do a search for 'prior art'-- to make sure that this system hasn't been done before
-- put your system into practice-- that can either by having a working system, or by creating a detailed specification. It needs to be detailed enought that someone "skilled in the art" could duplicate it after reading your document
-- Hire an attorney to draft a patent application based on your detailed specification.
-- File it with the USPTO (US Patent/Trademark office)... and/or other international equivalents.

Figure on spending between $8,000-12,000 on the above.

Regarding the little mini-thread on "free legal advice in a forum." The reason you do not want to do that is that legal outcomes and decisions can be greatly affected by seemingly insignificant details. A Forum conversation is a terrible way to try to get enough details on a particular case to do be able to draw any clear conclusions.
So forums are great for general suggestions, but you should always go to an attorney (who will talk with you and get enough specificac details to give you proper advice).

Brian Schmidt
GameSoundCon San Francisco
Oct 24,25
www.GameSoundCon.com


hmm great, are you a lawyer?
Good info anyway.
yes general info is all that i asked for :)

But now i have so many more quetions than i Did in the OP..
They are all listed on this second page.

Please can you answer them too pleaseeeeeeeee

#28 bschmidt1962   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1718

Like
2Likes
Like

Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:41 PM

They are all listed on this second page.
Please can you answer them too pleaseeeeeeeee

Doing a patent is a lot of work. So I'm afraid if you are really serious, you're going to need to research these things.

You will probably never know then answer to the "did they pay them" questions-- most of the time, that kind of information is not public.
Regarding your "how can they patent things so similar to other patents?" Remember when I said it's all in the details. This is especially true for patents. Critical details can determine whether a patent is original or not. Or of someone's game is "infringing" on the patent. Very often someone will create a patent, and then another company will discover that by changing some small detail, they can do pretty much the same thing, but not violate the patent.
Also, sometimes the patent office just doesn't get it right and accidentally lets through a patent that probably shouldn't have been.

My suggestion-- If you have a game idea, go make your game and don't worry about patents. I've done about 20 patents, including one self-funded one. They are expensive and time consuming. Unless you have a clear business plan that uses the patent, it's probably not worth doing.
Especially for gameplay-related items... It's the implementation of your idea that will make or break your game

Brian Schmidt

Executive Director, GameSoundCon:

GameSoundCon 2014:October 7-8, Los Angeles, CA

 

Founder, EarGames

Founder, Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC

Music Composition & Sound Design

Audio Technology Consultant


#29 Dan Lee Rogers   Members   -  Reputation: 123

Like
4Likes
Like

Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

You've gotten plenty of information here, from various sources, and most of it is accurate. However, let me give you some practical advice:

Re. Copyright - as discussed by numerous individuals above, a copyright protects the specific expression of a work. In the video game world, two items can generally be protected by copyright: a) the code; b) the performance (so to speak). Think of the performance as the combination of the story, script, setting, actions, characters, etc. Movies can be copyrighted in the same way, and although they don't have interactivity, there are many components that in combination can be protected. The code too can be copyrighted. Should you copyright your game? Yes, it always makes sense to do so. Will copyright protect your combat system? Maybe. Here's the difficulty. The copyright of the code would protect from someone taking your code verbatim and using it again. It would be more difficult however to prove infringement if they used it as reference but created their own system.

Re. Patent - As numerous individuals suggest, a patent of a combat system is probably available. For example, in the game business the ghost car patent protects its owner from infringement. In the same way, theoretically, a patent of your unique combat system would protect you. But here's the difficulty: patents are very expensive to obtain, and astronomically expensive to litigate. To give you an example, most good patent attorneys will tell you that your base line cost (US) to obtain a US patent is in the neighborhood of $50-$80K. Litigation is in the millions. My guess is that unless you have an aunt who is a patent attorney with lots of time on her hands, the patent is out of reach.

Option 3: a well written license, protecting your trade secrets. I won't go into the details here, but if your system is unique and attractive to others, the buy versus build option for them may allow you to exploit your property with a semblance of protection.

And yes, I'm an IP attorney working primarily in the video game and social media industries. That said, this does not constitute legal advice nor does it confer any sort of legal relationship between us. I'm simply adding my two-cents to a general discussion of the differences between IP rights.

Best of luck out there.

Dan

BTW: You may find a few of the articles I've written on copyright, etc. informative. Try: http://dlr-law.com/3/post/2012/08/zyngas-key-defense.html




Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS