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Why is this 128Bit Color Format being converted to 32Bit (HLSL/SLIMDX-9)


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#1 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:50 AM

Note: Sorry I know I have been posting tons of newbie questions on here lately but I really don't understand this problem.

I am trying to write an HLSL pixel shader for a project I am working on. Basically want I want to do is if a texture has a pixel with a float value of 0.52 (on scale of 0-255 is 132.6) I want to output 133 60% of the time and output 132 40% of the time. Write now I am just trying to output the fractional remainder of the RGB value (i.e. the chance to bump the pixel up) however I always get a value of zero) I think this is because the colors are getting quantized to a 0-255 scale before they reach the shader but I don't know why this would be because I am useing the A32B32G32R32f format which should be able to store plenty of information about the colors. Here is my very simple shader code. I am using SlimDX (DX9) if that matters.

[source lang="cpp"]sampler2D Tex0 : register(s0);float4 DitherByChance(float2 coords : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR{ float4 newColor = float4(0, 0, 0, 0); // The pixel color to return double4 oldColor = tex2D(Tex0, coords); double scale = 0.0039215686274509803921568627451; // 1 / 255 double rPercentChance = frac(oldColor.r / scale); //Chance to round red channel up double gPercentChance = frac(oldColor.g / scale); //Chance to round green channel up double bPercentChance = frac(oldColor.b / scale); //Chance to round blue channel up newColor.r = rPercentChance; newColor.g = gPercentChance; newColor.b = bPercentChance; newColor.a = 1; return newColor;}technique DitherViaChance { pass Pass1 { PixelShader = compile ps_2_0 DitherByChance(); } }[/source]

Here is the relevant VB code
[source lang="vb"] Public Overrides Sub RenderScene() 'ditherBC.Technique = ditherBC.GetTechnique("DitherViaChance") Me.device.BeginScene() spriteRender.Begin(SpriteFlags.None) ditherBC.Begin() ditherBC.BeginPass(0) 'NOTE tex IS CREATED WITH createCharacterTexture()' spriteRender.Draw(tex, New Rectangle(0, 0, 50, 50), New Color4(1, 1, 1)) spriteRender.End() ditherBC.EndPass() ditherBC.End() Me.device.EndScene() End Sub Public Function createCharacterTexture() As Texture Dim RtsHelper As RenderToSurface = New RenderToSurface(device, 100, 100, Format.A32B32G32R32F) Dim texture As Texture = New Texture(device, 100, 100, 1, Usage.RenderTarget, Format.A32B32G32R32F, Pool.Default) Dim sloanFont As Font = New Font(device, 98, 98, FontWeight.Normal, 1, False, CharacterSet.Default, Precision.Default, FontQuality.ClearTypeNatural, PitchAndFamily.Default, "Sloan") RtsHelper.BeginScene(texture.GetSurfaceLevel(0), New Viewport(0, 0, 100, 100)) sloanFont.DrawString(Nothing, "A", 1, 1, New SlimDX.Color4()) RtsHelper.EndScene(Filter.None) Font.Dispose() RtsHelper.Dispose() Return texture End Function[/source]

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#2 kauna   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2507

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:45 AM

Do I understand correctly that you are rendering the sloanfont.DrawString to the 128-bit rendertarget?

Maybe your source material is only 8-bit, ie. the font texture and the color?

Otherwise, can you confirm that your shader is outputting values correctly? I mean, I don't understand exactly the syntax you use for rendering to a rendertarget since I'm not a VB pro.

Cheers!

Edited by kauna, 11 October 2012 - 09:53 AM.


#3 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

Yes that is correct. I create at RenderToSurface object with a 128bit format so that I can render some text directly to a surface. I then I create a 128bit texture with one surface to act as the rendertarget. I am not sure if there is such a thing as diffrent bit formats for the Color class. I think if I create a color of 0.52 , 0.52, 0.52 it does not get converted until it get rendered onto the texture but I don't know. "Otherwise, can you confirm that your shader is outputting values correctly?" Yes If I manual but in 0.52 instead of oldColor.r (should be 0.52) I get the expected result.

#4 Adam_42   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2505

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

The way DrawString() works is that it uses a texture to hold an image of each character in the font. It's that texture which is almost certainly 8-bit and causing you problems.

You want to draw something other than text - a triangle with a different colour at each vertex should do the trick.

#5 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13574

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:49 PM

Firstly, don’t use magic numbers such as “0.0039215686274509803921568627451”.
Use:
float scale = 1.0 / 255.0;


Secondly are you aware that DitherByChance() returns values from the range of 0-255?
Reading from the texture in the shader gives you a value between 0 and 1.
Then you multiply that by 255.
For example, if the texture gave you 0.52 for red as per your example, you then do the following to it:
double rPercentChance = frac(oldColor.r / scale);
Which evaluates to the following:
double rPercentChance = frac(0.52 / 0.0039215686274509803921568627451);
Which evaluates to:
double rPercentChance = frac(132.59999999999999999999999999993);

Is this what you were expecting?
If so, why would you not just do:
double rPercentChance = frac(oldColor.r * 255.0);
instead? Multiplication is faster than division.


L. Spiro

Edited by L. Spiro, 11 October 2012 - 04:50 PM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#6 kauna   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2507

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

double rPercentChance = frac(132.59999999999999999999999999993);


As far as I know that this is what he is expecting to get, but for some reason he doesn't get that result.

Cheers!

#7 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13574

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

After re-reading his original post I think that is what he expects too, but that is a fairly crazy way to get it.
Just multiply by 255.0. Divisions are slow.
It should be:
sampler2D Tex0 : register(s0);
float4 DitherByChance(float2 coords : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
	float4 newColor = float4(0, 0, 0, 1);   // The pixel color to return
	double4 oldColor = tex2D(Tex0, coords);
	double scale = 255.0;  // 1 / 255

	newColor.r = frac(oldColor.r * scale);   //Chance to round red channel up
	newColor.g = frac(oldColor.g * scale);   //Chance to round green channel up
	newColor.b = frac(oldColor.b * scale);   //Chance to round blue channel up

	//newColor.rgb = frac( oldColor.rgb * scale ); // This would be a lot faster…


	return newColor;
}

Why not return the unaltered texture values?
return oldColor;
See what happens.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#8 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

From L. Spiro:

After re-reading his original post I think that is what he expects too, but that is a fairly crazy way to get it.
Just multiply by 255.0. Divisions are slow.


Yeah thats what I was oinganlly doing but in my quest to try and figure out what was going on I changed it to see if it made any diffrence. (not sure why I thought it would)

From L. Spiro:

Why not return the unaltered texture values?
return oldColor;See what happens.


Yes I have done that. And it seems to work but it would not give me any more infromation because when rasterized to the screen it would definatly be quantized to values of 0-255. Thanks for the tip to combine the three lines to one that is good to know.

From Adam_42:

The way DrawString() works is that it uses a texture to hold an image of each character in the font. It's that texture which is almost certainly 8-bit and causing you problems.
You want to draw something other than text - a triangle with a different colour at each vertex should do the trick.


This does not apper to be the problem. ...At least not the only problem. If create a surface like this:
[source lang="vb"]Dim tex As Texture = New Texture(device, 100, 100, 1, Usage.RenderTarget, Format A32B32G32R32F, Pool.Defualt)[/source]
And then do a device.ColorFill() as so:
[source lang="vb"]device.ColorFill(tex.GetSurfaceLevel(0), New Color4(1, 0.53, 0.52, 0.52)[/source]
I still get an all black output when you would expect an all 0.6 gray output. I have tried locking the surface and filling all the data with random bits using the Random.NextByte() method which seems to work fine because when I pass it through the Effect I get random colored pixels. (Note: not the same random pixels that get displayed when I don't pass it through the effect).

Is there some kind of Format settings for the device object its self? Do I (can I even?) need to set the backbuffer to a 128bit surface? I am really at a loss here.

#9 kauna   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2507

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

Hi,

could it be that device.ColorFill does the conversion from the floating point color to a 8-bit color? At least, the D3D9 version of colorfill accepts only a dword color as a parameters. Of course it doesn't explain other parts of the problem.

Cheers!

#10 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Could you elaborate? I am using D3D9 via the SlimDX wrapper. Maybe SlimDX is taking a float color but converting it to 0-255 before passing it to DirectX?

#11 kauna   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2507

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:11 AM

Yes, that explains the problem with the ColorFil, but maybe not the other parts.

You could write a full screen color fill shader for debug purposes and make it output the desired value.

Cheers!

#12 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13574

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

Where are you getting 0-255 exactly?
Anything you view in PIX etc. will range from 0-1. That includes textures and all surfaces.
So how exactly are you checking that it is 0-255?


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#13 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:46 AM

The frac(oldColor * 255) call always returns 0. While the oldColor values are 0-1 floating point numbers they only are changed in increments of (1/255)

#14 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13574

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

Then what is not behaving as expected?
You have values that, when multiplied by 255.0f, result in whole numbers, 1.0f, 2.0f, 3.0f, etc.

There is no fraction, so you are obviously going to get 0.0f every time.
No mystery here. This is exactly what you should expect.
If it is not what you desire, you should change it to be whatever exactly it is that you desire.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#15 kauna   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2507

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

I think that he doesn't expect the values to be limited to 1/255 increments. They should have the same accuracy as a floating point value.
That's the problem since the beginning.

That's why I proposed to write a pixel shader to fill the buffer with a desired floating point value just to narrow down the problem.

Cheers!

#16 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

Then what is not behaving as expected?
You have values that, when multiplied by 255.0f, result in whole numbers, 1.0f, 2.0f, 3.0f, etc.

There is no fraction, so you are obviously going to get 0.0f every time.
No mystery here. This is exactly what you should expect.
If it is not what you desire, you should change it to be whatever exactly it is that you desire.


L. Spiro



I believe you misunderstand what I am trying to do. I am working on a color vision test to test for color blindness and I would like to be able to display more colors then is possible on an 8bit / per channel display (i.e. 24bit/32bit depth). Say for example I want to display 10bits of color per channel (0-1024), this is equivalent to being able to display 0.25 increments of the 8bit (0-255) scale. For example say I want to render a large letter "A" with a floating point value of 0.503921... on a scale of 0-255 this is 128.50 the way I want to mimic this on an 8bit display is to render half the pixels as 128 and half the pixels as 129. When viewed at a reasonable distance the eye averages over the pixels and interprets the color of the letter as 128.5. Please see the picture below as a reference to want I am talking about. When looking at the image imagine that one of the colors of green is 128 and the other is 129 and that each box was only 1 pixel not 16. Your eye will interpret this as 128.5. Note in the below example it is perfectly uniform in my basic random chance model this is not necessarily true.

www.users.muohio.edu/vanattab/BasicDithering.png

In order to implement this with SlimDX and DirectX 9 what I tried was creating a 128Bit surface (I also tried 64Bit for floating point format and regular) so that I can store color to a higher depth. A 64Bit surface should be able to store 2^16 = 65536 possible values (24/32Bit is 2^8=256). So when I render the "A" to a 64 bit surface the color data should be stored in increments of (1/65536) not (1/255). In my pixel shader I then want to get multiply that floating point number by 255 and should get a number like 128.5 if you take the above example. When I then take the frac(of that number) I should get .5 which corresponds to the % chance that I want scale the color value up to 129. But that is not happening for some reason even though I am drawing the text to a 64bit format the color seems to be quantized to 24/32bit format. Does that make sense now?

Edited by vanattab, 16 October 2012 - 07:33 AM.


#17 vanattab   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:15 AM

I think that he doesn't expect the values to be limited to 1/255 increments. They should have the same accuracy as a floating point value.
That's the problem since the beginning.

That's why I proposed to write a pixel shader to fill the buffer with a desired floating point value just to narrow down the problem.

Cheers!


I tried writting a simple texture shader to fill the texture as you suggested but I got an odd error and I am not sure why?

This was my shader code:
[source lang="cpp"]sampler2D Tex0 : register(s0);float4 fill128( float2 coords : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR{ return float4(1, 0.612549, 0.612549, 0.612549);}[/source]

In my application code I then compile the shader as so:

[source lang="vb"]psByteCode = ShaderBytecode.CompileFromFile("filePath", "fill128", "ps_2_b", ShaderFlags.None)shader = New TextureShader(psByteCode.Data)............' '''''''' Then in my rendering code before I call device.BeginScene() I call TestTexture.Fill(shader)[/source]

But I get the following error on the TestTexture.Fill(shader) call. SlimDX X9Exception with a msg of:

Additional Infromation: E_FAIL: An undetermined error occurred.



#18 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13574

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:30 PM

I tried writting a simple texture shader to fill the texture as you suggested but I got an odd error and I am not sure why?

This was my shader code:
[source lang="cpp"]sampler2D Tex0 : register(s0);float4 fill128( float2 coords : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR{ return float4(1, 0.612549, 0.612549, 0.612549);}[/source]

Change to:
return float4(1.0, 0.612549, 0.612549, 0.612549);
Or better yet:
return float4(0.612549, 0.612549, 0.612549, 1.0); // Not transparent.

Additionally, how can you be sure that drawing text to a texture will use more than 8 bits of accuracy?
For what you want to do to work, you need to render from a source image that itself has more than 8 bits of precision. Text is very unlikely to fit within this domain, as there is no reason to render text at a higher precision.
You would only get non-integer values if you did further filtering on the image, but that is not likely to suit your goal.


You must either create your own font texture using a source texture that is 128 bits or give up.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums




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