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Is it true that SlimDX is being discontinued?


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#1 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

I came across this GD blog, which says that the SlimDX team has now moved to the SharpDX team. Which to me sounds like SlimDX will be no more soon, if it isn't already. Is this true?
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#2 Starnick   Members   -  Reputation: 1177

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

Well, it's that particular project team is moving from SlimDX to SharpDX. It would be interesting to hear on the fate of SlimDX from one of the devs however, as it does seem to be dying now. One of the developers has moved on, and they've made a call for developers to help out. I wonder if anyone met that call and if its been fruitful.

Edited by Starnick, 25 October 2012 - 12:41 PM.


#3 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2887

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

It's not dying, it's simply stable now. Most bugs have been fixed and we have pretty much complete coverage of the DXSDK up through the last drop. However, none of us have any interest in doing anything metro-related, so we don't feel it worthwhile to add DX 11.1 support, as it's metro-only. If you don't need metro support, the library is as good as it's always been.
Mike Popoloski | Journal | SlimDX

#4 Gavin Williams   Members   -  Reputation: 647

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:27 AM

That's good news (that you're still on over-watch). Although I don't agree that DX 11.1 is for metro only. I believe (and pls correct me if I'm wrong) that 11.1 is for Windows 8, Metro, and Server. So anyone with Windows 8 (disregarding Metro) will have access to 11.1. This is important, because of the improvements 11.1 brings over 11. For me, I'm looking forward to the unification of the framework, in that dx10 doesn't need to be used to provide some services ( notably text ) like it does now. I've also noticed that VS2012 graphics debugger can't debug my app when I have my dx10 text in there. Which is a real pain. And that alone makes me want to start working under Windows 8. But SlimDX is the core tech for me, so I won't migrate until it supports 11.1.

And yes, the SlimDX library is fantastic, I haven't come across a single bug since I started using it earlier this year.

#5 Narf the Mouse   Members   -  Reputation: 318

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:39 AM

It's not dying, it's simply stable now. Most bugs have been fixed and we have pretty much complete coverage of the DXSDK up through the last drop. However, none of us have any interest in doing anything metro-related, so we don't feel it worthwhile to add DX 11.1 support, as it's metro-only. If you don't need metro support, the library is as good as it's always been.

Microsoft either needs to fire or listen to their GUI design guys. And half their lawyers.

Edit: Any chance you could replicate the functionality or kickstart a project for that? Is DirectX part of an open standard? How about SlimGL?

Edited by Narf the Mouse, 28 October 2012 - 10:41 AM.


#6 MJP   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10824

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Yeah I've never seen anything to indicate that 11.1 is metro-only, although I've never once tried to use it since it's only currently available on Windows 8.

#7 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2887

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:53 PM

Yes, perhaps not metro-only, but certainly Windows 8-only. I've no interest in all the updated libraries because they cut out the most gigantic market for PC games that currently exists: Windows 7. All the DirectX blog posts lately say to fall back to the 2010 SDK if you want to support Windows 7, so it seems rather pointless.
Mike Popoloski | Journal | SlimDX

#8 MJP   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10824

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

The new DX headers and libs from the Windows 8 SDK work just fine on Windows 7.

#9 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2887

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

Except the ones that don't, which, according to Chuck's blog, include XAudio2, XInput, and all of the D3DX helpers. The removal of D3DX alone is quite the breaking change for users, one which I'm loathe to make this late in the product's lifecycle. I suppose I could always try to mix and match pieces, but that just seems like asking for trouble.
Mike Popoloski | Journal | SlimDX

#10 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 6590

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

I'm going to be -- deep breath -- installing Windows 8 this week. I will at least take a look at the DX 11.1 stuff in detail.

SharpDX is a separate project by a separate guy. I wish him all the best but can't really comment on it otherwise.

Edited by Promit, 31 October 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#11 xoofx   Members   -  Reputation: 869

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

The new DX headers and libs from the Windows 8 SDK work just fine on Windows 7.

As long as Direct3D11.1 is not backported to Windows 7, it is still not very interesting to work with these features, considering the current large Windows 7 user base. But as It was said, it is only relevant on Windows 8 when you need to use specific D3D11.1 stuff, or d2d1.1 interop with d3d11.1, or interop with Win8 Metro...etc. D3DCompiler from DirectX11.1 is probably the only piece of runtime that can be used on Windows 7.

Edited by xoofx, 31 October 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#12 Gavin Williams   Members   -  Reputation: 647

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

Except the ones that don't, which, according to Chuck's blog, include XAudio2, XInput, and all of the D3DX helpers. The removal of D3DX alone is quite the breaking change for users, one which I'm loathe to make this late in the product's lifecycle. I suppose I could always try to mix and match pieces, but that just seems like asking for trouble.


Well as a relative beginner, and having been reading this morning about the whole Effect Framework issue. Which I have to say I wasn't even aware of because of how you've put SlimDX together. I just thought Effects were a normal part of Direct X 11. I didn't realize that in C++ the Effect Framework has to be compiled and added in. I have been using Effects without thinking about it, and it's an easy way to work. I do remember early on when I first looked at SlimDX I think I actually did compile my shaders separately, and thought it was slightly more complicated than XNA, but it wasn't too bad. And then after the next project I started using Effects and promptly forgot about loading individual shaders.

I hope I've got this right that D3DX includes Effects, or at least that they have both been removed from the core DX. Otherwise you might be wondering why I've gone on this tangent. So my point is that Effects seem pretty good, and of course it would be nice if they stayed around in SlimDX but loading the shaders individually, working with the cbuffers and setting samplerStates in C# code rather than just in the fx file doesn't seem like such a breaking change. I did find the idea of cbuffers baffling at first, and I have still not used cbuffers. I guess because the Effect Framework hides all that from me. But the idea is clear to me now, even if the details of implementing them and using them correctly isn't.

I suppose there is line around the core direct x and if you step over that line, even for these supporting tools (eg Effects). Then it's a slippery slope, and the question is are you making a direct x wrapper or are you making something more than just that. Maybe it's a wait and see situation. SharpDX is forging ahead with support for 11.1 and Windows 8 but yeah, Windows 7 is the core market right now. So there's plenty of time.

From what I've read, 11.1 won't be build for Windows 7, but I haven't been convinced of that yet. Windows 7 is still in it's prime, most definitely it should have 11.1, it is 11 after all. But I'm worried that Microsoft want to use 11.1 to leverage Windows 8 / Metro (even if it's a small push) by restricting the latest Direct X to that platform. But maybe that's just a conspiracy theory, as I really don't understand what needs to be done to put 11.1 onto Windows 7. If it did happen though, then great. I'd install it, SlimDX would support it and we could still use Windows 8 if we want to. But now I'm just fantasizing I'm afraid.




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