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What if games were uncrackable?


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#21 Gavin Williams   Members   -  Reputation: 646

Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

Funny, I've never had any of these issues. DRM seems to be invisible to me, I couldn't even tell you what the big deal is with DRM because it honestly hasn't impacted me. Authenticating a purchased product isn't the slightest concern for me. Installation has always been straight forward. Performance issues are to be expected for a moving target, and when those issues are resolved with patching which is usually automatic these days, you end up with a game that that looks and plays better than any current gen console could hope to match.

I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that have had problems. But many of us don't have these problems. So you can't talk like these problems are universal, because they aren't !

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#22 FableFox   Members   -  Reputation: 491

Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:04 AM



I'd see game and software sales going down a bit - many folks like the "try before you buy" approach.

Free trials just don't cut it anymore, huh?

Unfortunately no. There are so many "fly by night" programs out there .... demos tend to hide the flaws.


This. And sadly, sometimes, the thing that "must be paid" in order to use is the most problematic lot. There was a game engine that pulls this one before, but now it mostly dead, so good riddance. Not dead yet, and there was changes, but too little too late.
Fable Fox is Stronger <--- Fable Fox is Stronger Project

#23 Anri   Members   -  Reputation: 597

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

Funny, I've never had any of these issues. DRM seems to be invisible to me, I couldn't even tell you what the big deal is with DRM because it honestly hasn't impacted me. Authenticating a purchased product isn't the slightest concern for me. Installation has always been straight forward. Performance issues are to be expected for a moving target, and when those issues are resolved with patching which is usually automatic these days, you end up with a game that that looks and plays better than any current gen console could hope to match.

I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that have had problems. But many of us don't have these problems. So you can't talk like these problems are universal, because they aren't !


Gavin, in the same token, you can't dismiss a problem as not being universal just because you have not had that problem. The fact is that such issues do enough damage to PC game sales that customers switch to a console because they don't have to put up with buying a game that doesn't work, even though it meets the required specs.

Seriously, try selling PC games and it won't be long before you get your first cheesed off customer. Trust me, it ain't pretty...

#24 Arthur Souza   Members   -  Reputation: 1417

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:22 AM


I don't want a world where software cannot be cracked anymore than a world where a car cannot be opened up, repaired, rebuilt, and customized. Software is not a tangible thing, and even tangible things usually need to be cracked open.

You're not a normal user. I imagine you're talking about mods? That was one of the biggest issues people brought up about OnLive. I agree that kind of separation from a developer is a problem; however, this also means it's easier for developers to restrict who can mod their games giving them more control over quality and their IP.


But the thread is asking this to game developers, not to normal users.

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#25 Gavin Williams   Members   -  Reputation: 646

Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

Gavin, in the same token, you can't dismiss a problem as not being universal just because you have not had that problem. The fact is that such issues do enough damage to PC game sales that customers switch to a console because they don't have to put up with buying a game that doesn't work, even though it meets the required specs.


Agreed that I can't dismiss that there is a problem, but I don't think issues with pc-gaming is what's driving the console numbers. Talking about myself and my pc-gamer friends - there is some bitching on occasion about issues, but no one's ditching their pc's for consoles. Although they are buying consoles in addition to their pc's. I think we need to remember that there are more gamers now compared to 10-20 years ago, so it's not just an issue of conversion, a lot of the numbers we are seeing are new gamers. Maybe PC gamers are as numerous as ever, and it's just that there are more gamers overall because consoles created a new market. I think that even if I'm not spot on with this, that it is definitely true to a degree. It is the case that the numbers of computers per household are way up, looking at figures I see about an 80-100% increase in computers per household over the past decade. And console numbers are way up too. Neither of these facts is surprising. And they are not contradictory.

Many people will buy a console because of cost, ease of use, and the casual nature of the equipment, how it's installed, where it's used and what it looks like. And I can see that you are saying that yourself about ease of use. So we agree on that, I just don't agree that the issues with pc games are so bad that they are what is driving console growth.

Posted Image

Edit : And I think getting access to exclusive titles may be a big factor in console ownership.

Edited by Gavin Williams, 05 November 2012 - 09:38 AM.


#26 Anri   Members   -  Reputation: 597

Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Re: Gavin Williams.

The data you present is fair and is good food for thought, but there are a couple of points to bare in mind...

1. How many of those people who participated in that study said what kind of games the play on their PCs? Are they playing the regular commercial releases such as StarCraft II, Call of Duty, Crysis or are they playing lots of free, cheap or low-spec games such as Mine Craft, Angry Birds or that sodding flash-driven Farming game? Or even playing on emulators for dead consoles or operating systems(DosBox)? o_O

2. How many PC titles, after their purchase, are bought back to the retailer when the customer demands they live up to "selling functioning goods"? The number of returned titles for the PC will out number those of returned console games. Some retailers even go as far as not selling PC titles, because of this.

...but something to also keep in mind is the topic at hand which is "what if games were uncrackable?" I just believe that piracy shouldn't be used as an excuse for PC game sales failing in comparison to console sales, when there are other factors to consider.

#27 Gavin Williams   Members   -  Reputation: 646

Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:43 AM

lol @ the farming simulator http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/farming-simulator-sells-500-000-units/084560 but I don't think that was the one you were referring to. Who would have thought that would be a raging success. But it (kinda) makes sense, coz people love tinkering and working on things ala Sims. It might be quite a peaceful and satisfying experience.

PC game sales failing in comparison to console sales

Not failing. Just selling comparatively less. The market is different now, there are a number of consoles and gaming systems, each with their own culture and following. Desktop computer's and laptops are one of those systems. PC gaming can be a pretty serious affair, while console gaming is more casual and 'personally' social. So they each have their place, but they might not be naturally equal in terms of usage trends. I watch TV and movies in the living room more than I do at my desktop. And that's got nothing to do with the quality of the media. Because my computer can produce far better image and sound quality. There is an overall experience, there is the need sometimes just to relax on the couch and be entertained.

But I agree that piracy is used as an excuse and there are other way more important factors. Like games being developed on console and ending up having a crappy UI on PC ie Skyrim - it's so bad using the in-game inventory and menus, it's totally written for using a gamepad, they just didn't bother recoding it properly, but that game still succeeded. And I don't think that's a factor in console games outselling pc games.

#28 Anri   Members   -  Reputation: 597

Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

lol @ the farming simulator http://www.mcvuk.com...00-units/084560 but I don't think that was the one you were referring to. Who would have thought that would be a raging success. But it (kinda) makes sense, coz people love tinkering and working on things ala Sims. It might be quite a peaceful and satisfying experience.

PC game sales failing in comparison to console sales

Not failing. Just selling comparatively less. The market is different now, there are a number of consoles and gaming systems, each with their own culture and following. Desktop computer's and laptops are one of those systems. PC gaming can be a pretty serious affair, while console gaming is more casual and 'personally' social. So they each have their place, but they might not be naturally equal in terms of usage trends. I watch TV and movies in the living room more than I do at my desktop. And that's got nothing to do with the quality of the media. Because my computer can produce far better image and sound quality. There is an overall experience, there is the need sometimes just to relax on the couch and be entertained.

But I agree that piracy is used as an excuse and there are other way more important factors. Like games being developed on console and ending up having a crappy UI on PC ie Skyrim - it's so bad using the in-game inventory and menus, it's totally written for using a gamepad, they just didn't bother recoding it properly, but that game still succeeded. And I don't think that's a factor in console games outselling pc games.


I have to hand it to you Gavin, your glass is half-full to my glass that is half-empty... ^_^

Skyrim had a great marketing campaign. Same as COD, BattleField, Assassins Creed, FIFA and The Sims. They are huge franchises where the PC ports will naturally sell because of the hype - everyone including our pets want them! If someone hasn't got a PS3 or 360 then chances are they will have a laptop and get so caught up in the hype they will take a risk on it working or not - or not even consider it.

For all the issues that I listed previously, there are certainly some strengths to the PC that make it piss all over the consoles...

1. Its a machine that any tom, dick or harry can write games for. You cannot do that on a console unless you are a licensed developer(or with a Xbox Live membership)...
2. The PC, with some basic knowledge, can upgrade their PC to produce unrivalled visuals. A Console simply cannot compete with a machine with multiple processors and graphic cards.
3. Free games! Seriously, with a bit of effort one can find some bloody good games that cost NOTHING.
4. Keyboard and mouse. Nuff said.
5. There are more Desktops/Laptops in homes than any console.
6. So many different peripherals that make even the Wii jealous!
7. Its the platform of choice for MMORPGs.

...I've always loved the PC more than the consoles, but like you say, PC games are being developed in a Console style, and its not being used to its fullest potential...some genres are being completely ignored because the don't work well on Consoles even though they are perfect for the PC(Space Combat simluators).

#29 Comambo   Members   -  Reputation: 108

Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

This would mainly benefit Indie developers more than anything. I like the idea of just screwing with people who use cracked copies of a game, so that if it is just a licensing issue or bug they can still play the game. For example if someone pirates Skyrim, then whenever they get on a horse they get flung into the air and die.
Not that practical but funny to the pirates out there.

#30 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8324

Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

For example if someone pirates Skyrim, then whenever they get on a horse they get flung into the air and die.

Well, in this case, even a legit copy will do Posted Image

The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis





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