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Game Design Crysis!


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#1 James Leighe   Members   -  Reputation: 222

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

I have been working on a game engine and I have spent so much time on that I now have no idea what kind of game I want to make!

Here are a few basic points I have been working on:
* Simple
* 3D
* Multiplayer
* Random Terrain?
* AI's?

As you can see from my extensive list I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing!
Another major issue is that I don't have allot of money to throw into art so most of the modelling and animating I will have to do on my own.

I have no trouble coming up with ideas assuming I had some money but I do not... So could some of your game design brains point me in the right direction?!

(also if you help me design a game I would credit you and give you a portion of any money made which will more than likely be none)

Thanks

Sponsor:

#2 rdragon1   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1200

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

It doesn't cost money, nor is art required to prototype gameplay. Just start coding.

#3 James Leighe   Members   -  Reputation: 222

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:10 AM

Yeah but code what? I have coded the engine and stuff but now what kind of game should I code?

EDIT: If you mean code one of my ideas that would require allot of funding that's probably not a good idea because I doubt I'm going to come across enough money to finish it and the coding itself would take months of hard work.

Edited by James Leighe, 12 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.


#4 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7421

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:39 AM

my ideas that would require allot of funding

Then try to reduce your idea until it is feasable, sometimes it is really helpful to have some limitation. At least it forces you to get to the core of the game.

Maybe Notch thought about minecraft in a way to build worlds like Avatars world, but after fitting his requirements to his budget, a game like the know minecraft evolved, which many people like to play. Not every game need to be the next big AAA MMORPG FLOP !

#5 James Leighe   Members   -  Reputation: 222

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:52 AM

Yeah by allot of funding I mean they would require things like models and animations and art lol.

It's difficult to distill a game idea so much that you don't need allot of the aforementioned things and I have been trying but maybe not hard enough.

EDIT: Your game looks like it could be really cool btw.

Edited by James Leighe, 12 November 2012 - 12:54 AM.


#6 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:37 AM

I have coded the engine and stuff but now what kind of game should I code?

Don't, just don't do that. Don't make engines, make games. There are limitations on how flexible and game indipendent an engine can be, that's what the professionals say. You have a hard time not doing a fps with the unreal engine. There are always game related assumptions that sink down to the engine. If you do an engine yourself, you'll see that you can vastly simplify subparts compared to professional engines.

I have no trouble coming up with ideas assuming I had some money but I do not... So could some of your game design brains point me in the right direction?!
(also if you help me design a game I would credit you and give you a portion of any money made which will more than likely be none)

I am a bit confused in what you'd like from us. If you have ideas, then write about them. The "game design brains" may help you simplifying your idea and give some feedback.

Yeah by allot of funding I mean they would require things like models and animations and art lol.

Yes?! And what do you expect to get for your gameengine? Top notch quality artwork, models and textures? You are a hobbyist. I know you don't like that thought (neither do I), your game probably won't look as good as you have it in your head. You don't have the professional artists that realize your dream.

You already talk about models as if it is a IEEE normed construct that you need to aquire. You don't know what you are doing, because you don't know what game you want to make, you have no target.

It worries me a bit that you wrote about the engine and then a bit about what the engine consumes. A game is more than engine and models, it should be fun, have mechanics, be challenging...

Edited by Bluefirehawk, 12 November 2012 - 01:42 AM.

Project: Project
Setting fire to these damn cows one entry at a time!

#7 James Leighe   Members   -  Reputation: 222

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

Don't, just don't do that. Don't make engines, make games. There are limitations on how flexible and game indipendent an engine can be, that's what the professionals say. You have a hard time not doing a fps with the unreal engine. There are always game related assumptions that sink down to the engine. If you do an engine yourself, you'll see that you can vastly simplify subparts compared to professional engines.

I agree that making an engine is generally a bad idea because it takes so long and can lock you into a specific type of game. But I learned allot doing it and am a much better programmer now at least, so it's not a total waste. Having said that the only major assumption in the engine that probably can't change is that the game is 3D.

I am a bit confused in what you'd like from us. If you have ideas, then write about them. The "game design brains" may help you simplifying your idea and give some feedback.

I'll try and flesh out my ideas a bit on paper and post them here tomorrow.

Yes?! And what do you expect to get for your gameengine? Top notch quality artwork, models and textures? You are a hobbyist. I know you don't like that thought (neither do I), your game probably won't look as good as you have it in your head. You don't have the professional artists that realize your dream.

Oh I realize this for sure, I will probably have to make the assets myself and I'm no master artist. So I need some kind of game where the art assets are simple enough that even I could make them.

You already talk about models as if it is a IEEE normed construct that you need to aquire. You don't know what you are doing, because you don't know what game you want to make, you have no target.

No I was just mentioning them because I was having trouble thinking of a game that requires very light art assets.

It worries me a bit that you wrote about the engine and then a bit about what the engine consumes. A game is more than engine and models, it should be fun, have mechanics, be challenging...

Absolutely! Unfortunately I'm having trouble with that part.

I think you can agree that it's hard to make a game with the constraint of having very light art assets which is why I was mentioning models and whatnot. But in the end yes, whatever game I make will use models of some sort, this is a constraint. I realize that I could use another engine and make a different game but I would like it to be 3D.

Also thank all you guys for your feedback so far!

Edited by James Leighe, 12 November 2012 - 02:00 AM.


#8 Ashaman73   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7421

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

Yeah by allot of funding I mean they would require things like models and animations and art lol.

I understood what you meant and I'm sure that you can get around this.

To be honest, I fall into the same pit like you , started with an engine and not a game. This has several disadvantages, because once you have an engine, you want to put it to use and this is a show stopper. The hard part is the decision to discard a feature of your engine to make the vision of a game more likely.

I.e. my engine is capable of using normal mapped models, like every current game engine. But I do not use it, because creating the normal maps for all your art would be just too expensive. A great story, no dissed this too. Large open world, *zap* gone, because I wanted explorable dungeons first.

Later (too late to be honest) I decided to orientate my game at a rogue-like game, because rogue-like are RPG games with feasible art Posted Image

And this is my best advice I can give after working for more than 12 years on my engine and 3 years on my game: pick a low-art (best rogue-like) game which meets your vision of a game best and then think about what you could push (mostly art wise) without putting too much budget into it.

But be careful not to think the other way around (what game would be best made with my engine), because you already showed that you are capable of making an engine, so adjusting the engine to the game is most likely your simplest task.

Edited by Ashaman73, 12 November 2012 - 05:59 AM.


#9 Bluefirehawk   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1232

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:23 AM

I think you can agree that it's hard to make a game with the constraint of having very light art assets which is why I was mentioning models and whatnot.

No I don't. Sometimes it is the flavor of the game. Comparing Minecraft and Darksiders, I think it is more important to have a distinctive, rememberable style than one that looks nice.

Anyways what I wanted to tell you is, you are too focused on your engine and everything aroud it.
Project: Project
Setting fire to these damn cows one entry at a time!

#10 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2823

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:45 AM

Take one of your "grand ideas", then identify one small part of it, some interesting mechanic, and start implement it.

While doing this, you either find out it sucks, then you can start figure out why, if it needs complementing, or if it should be replaced in your design.

Or you find out it is fun! great work, now you can go onto the next part, and is one step closer to your goal.
With enough small parts done, you might be able to interest people in helping you out (by donating cash or time)

Or, it might be really fun! Could maybe build a game on just this part, with just a few additions!
Then you can pursue this, and suddenly you have your game done.

In any case, it will give you more ideas of what to add/do next.

It doesn't have to cost more then your time, art can be placeholders downloaded for free until you have code that is good/interesting enough.

#11 dtg108   Members   -  Reputation: 394

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

Just go to the classifieds section and find 3D artists/a team, and start making a game.

#12 DaveTroyer   Members   -  Reputation: 1052

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

So little trade secret coming your way.

Fun games are still fun if they're being played with cubes.

It boils down to game play. Pure and simple. If you take a game like Worms. A game that has been around for ages and replace the terrain with plain green voxels and the characters (the worms) with little pink cubes, it would still be fun to play.

Now take a more complex game like Grand Theft Auto 4. Really pretty game with lots of complex elements. Well, if you boil it down to cubes rendered out in a massive cube city with pretty shading and lighting and weather effects, you still have a fun game being played in a beautiful engine. Again, lets look at another game in the same vein that didn't do as well, Sleeping Dogs. Sandbox game with tons of interesting elements, in depth story, and beautiful graphics. It didn't do as well. Why is that? Because its elements weren't as polished as Grand Theft Auto 4's. It was repetitive and lack luster at times. And more so, if you played it with cubes, it wouldn't be all that fun.

All I'm saying is any great game idea can be made with incredibly basic graphics and still be great, so please stop insisting that you need piles of money to make your games.

You're doing you and your game ideas a disservice by adding those financial limits.

Check out my game blog - Dave's Game Blog


#13 Rhetorician   Members   -  Reputation: 119

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

Spelling crisis!




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