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+5 for following


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#41 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 18174

Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:00 AM

Well in that poll 4 of the 7 choices are implications that there is something meaningful about the topic worth revisiting. That was the point of voting up the topic, to imply that the author created a thread that is somehow interesting or worthwhile.

I think the issue though is that the "somehow interesting" is apparently often at odds with "worthwhile". Only 1 of the 7 choices specifically calls out the content in question as "valuable", and the fact that people want to keep track of topics for other reasons does not seem to be related to the value or interestingness of the topic. We've got people trying to use the feature to keep track of their own content, people using the feature for moderation (or amusement), and people wanting to continue participation in a conversation -- but not necessarily because the topic at hand is an interesting one; they might want to ensure they continue to reply because they think the OP is spreading misinformation that needs to be countered, or they might be interested in a tangent that arose out of a meaningless or boring topic.

Looking at the votes and responses, it looks to me like only in a small minority of cases does following a topic imply worthwhile content, and that most uses have no bearing what-so-ever on the value (or lack there-of) of the original post.

These are not the responses of users who want to imply that a topic is "interesting or worthwhile" when they follow it, and their responses seem to be typical of normal usage:

It's annoying that each time I "follow" a thread, the thread creator gets +5 points.
Very rarely when following a thread, does the OP deserve those +5.


I don't want to implicitly rate people, only explicitly.

QFT.
I auto-follow every thread I post to, but still one needs to follow threads on occasion. In particular, I sometimes follow threads that I am worried will descend into flame wars, and in this case I definitely do not wish to give a rating boost.

But this just doesn't seem right. Following a topic is not equal to giving credits to a topic.

Had no idea following gave +rep.
I follow threads for all kinds of reasons, but it's rarely because its particularly valuable... If posts are valuable I +rep those.
I think I will have to stop using the explicit follow function for now, because +rep:ing when doing it is not my intention.

In general I also do not believe that following a thread means it's actually interesting by itself.

I auto-follow on reply, so the only threads I manually follow (and thus rating boost), are those that aren't actually interesting enough to warrant a reply.



I think we should at least take on board SoTL's suggestion of removing the user's name from the points, but to me it really looks like the majority of our community -- or at least those willing to speak up, and we've only had one objection -- would rather not give those points at all.

I think the reputation system is great, and that it's a fantastic way of helping to recognise and thank people for contributions -- but it won't hold that meaning if our community aren't happy with the fact that the points are being given, or disagree with the reasons behind it.

Edited by jbadams, 16 November 2012 - 07:04 AM.


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#42 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5191

Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:33 AM

I think we should at least take on board SoTL's suggestion of removing the user's name from the points, but to me it really looks like the majority of our community -- or at least those willing to speak up, and we've only had one objection -- would rather not give those points at all.


Yeah I'm fine with that. Like I said, I'm just looking for implicit ways of rating someone as well. I will admit though that the original reasoning behind wanting implied voting was because the upvotes were not as prevalent and people weren't being recognized for their contributions. When we switched to the reddit-style upvote widget that changed quite a bit. I liked the idea of "following" originally because you can't really ask people to follow your post.. they have to want to and be interested enough to.

I am certainly open to modifications though.. but I want to make sure whatever we do is carefully thought out. And more importantly, at the end of the day I want to ensure that people are getting some type of recognition for contributions to the community. The rep system in it's current state is a start but we have a lot more we'll be doing in the hopefully near future.

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 16 November 2012 - 07:42 AM.


#43 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9880

Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

I know we have upvotes, but following with an upvote box available to me is the same as just simply upvoting the topic.

In my mind, there is a huge distinction between the overall contribution of a thread, and the contribution of the person who started the thread.

How many really interesting topics evolve out of an ass-hat OP? The majority of truly idiotic posts in the technical forums are quickly overwhelmed by intelligent, non-confrontational replies.

When you talk about up-voting a thread, I envision providing a small ratings boost to all participants, rather than the OP.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#44 Cornstalks   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6974

Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

How many really interesting topics evolve out of an ass-hat OP? The majority of truly idiotic posts in the technical forums are quickly overwhelmed by intelligent, non-confrontational replies.

QFE. Some of the neatest things I learn from threads where the OP is some idiot/troll and receives a bajillion downvotes; however, our decent, brilliant members might be extolling some great wisdom in such a thread. If I were to follow a thread like this, it's not because the OP asked a great question or was a great participant, but because the rest of the community is so freaking awesome.
[ I was ninja'd 71 times before I stopped counting a long time ago ] [ f.k.a. MikeTacular ] [ My Blog ] [ SWFer: Gaplessly looped MP3s in your Flash games ]

#45 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5191

Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

When you talk about up-voting a thread, I envision providing a small ratings boost to all participants, rather than the OP.


That's an interesting take on things. I can agree that we've had some pretty awesome discourse come out of some crap posts. (and believe me I'm playing a ton of devil's advocate in these replies I write) Do you think we should also assume the OP is an ass-hat in not awarding the points?

Unlike the auto-follow attached to replies, I think hitting that button on the topic takes a much more deliberate thought process. But I guess I'm trying to attach some meaning to it. I think it's *good* when you follow a reply in that it's almost like putting a little emphasis * on it. If 30 people were to follow one topic, I would think there was something special about it.

Here are some top followed replies.. VERY few posts get more than two followers. We have 637 posts with more than 2 followers, 2,294 with exactly 2 followers, and 10,862 with 1 follower.

Top 5:
http://www.gamedev.n...cture-question/
http://www.gamedev.n...windows-8metro/
http://www.gamedev.n...s-constitution/
http://www.gamedev.n...t-based-entity/

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 16 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.


#46 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5191

Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

Here are a few more just "general" posts with two followers:
How to initialize std::vector with array data without internal copy operation
storing random unique values in a vector
what would be the proper oop way to do this?
4X game: Communication ranges
Game Jerky with Vsync Off
Array of structs
"Preventing" collision detection


Now compare with three followers:
Completed Tic Tac Toe - Critical Critiques and Advice
You Should Steal From Other Game Designers
Returning multiple values from function C++
Implementing objects with short life time but that have to be created frequently
Disk stalling on rapid r/w
Movies that should've been games.
C++ pointer strangeness

Lastly.. jump up to five followers:
What's your take on protected variables?
How/Who create the GameObjects?
Can i become a professional gamedeveloper learning at home?
Is using a debugger lazy?
Basic operating system development

Edited by Michael Tanczos, 16 November 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#47 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9880

Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

Lol - I'd guess I'm following a good 80% of those threads.

(auto-follow, that is)

Edited by swiftcoder, 16 November 2012 - 11:41 AM.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#48 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3134

Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:10 PM


How many really interesting topics evolve out of an ass-hat OP? The majority of truly idiotic posts in the technical forums are quickly overwhelmed by intelligent, non-confrontational replies.

QFE. Some of the neatest things I learn from threads where the OP is some idiot/troll and receives a bajillion downvotes; however, our decent, brilliant members might be extolling some great wisdom in such a thread. If I were to follow a thread like this, it's not because the OP asked a great question or was a great participant, but because the rest of the community is so freaking awesome.


Exactly why we can conclude that the vast majority of threads which get an initial +5 for following are worth it, based on merit, and the few others should be considered as part of the risk of being kind hearted. "Inocent until proven guilty", so how about considering a thread worthy until time and posts show otherwise, besides the gesture of a benevolent staff added to this?


Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer





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