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What country in is best/cheapest for developers?


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#21 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12873

Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

thank you for the advice.. I gather you had quite bad experiences there Posted Image, I know it's very very easy to.

I have been there many times already and have been happily married to a filipina for 5 years and have been considering this move for ages now. But I totally understand your point of view , I did live in Shibuya for 2 years, 2003 and 2004, and I can understand what kind of standards you are accustomed to Posted Image, thus your reaction.

If you found a Filipino who really gives you her heart than you are both amazing and lucky. Most of my experiences were in Thailand which has a similar reputation, but the people I dated were really sincere, although ultimately not my type. There are sincere people in the Philippines just as there as sincere people in Thailand, but it really takes a mind to separate them and decide who is sincere and by how much.
If you are married to a Filipino then that is great, but I am still not convinced you should actually live in the Philippines. The fact that so many people want to get married just to leave the Philippines should be an indication of that.
If you can feel your wife’s devotion, hold onto that, but don’t ever ever ever for any reason ever go back to the Philippines. I have been there and done that and I can promise you nothing happy will come from it.


L. Spiro

Edited by L. Spiro, 26 November 2012 - 07:36 AM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#22 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12873

Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

The why that is missing is "why not philippines", but I guess only idiots would question that? Posted Image (or people like me, with almost no idea about philippines at all)

It really is difficult to explain. I have lived in poor countries and been to many countries on business.
Laos, Cambodia, Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand. Among these, I have to strongly warn against any but Thailand.
Most of these countries don’t have a good gaming industry, but the Philippines are also very dangerous.
It’s true that the Philippines�’ wars usually don’t involved foreigners, but I see no reason to suggest the Philippines instead of Bangkok when both the risk is less and the wage will be higher.

Even if your wife is Filipino, I can’t recommend the Philippines over Thailand. It really is your best bet.


L. Spiro

Edited by L. Spiro, 26 November 2012 - 01:07 PM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#23 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2203

Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:39 AM

well I'll give my brief point of view on the country.

PRO

- Beautiful scenery. Beaches (Philippines is a country made of islands, LOTS of them :P), falls, caves, reefs.. you get it all
- "Constant weather".. 36 degrees, sun goes down at 6pm every day.
- Incredibly friendly people. You'll be interacting with people from the moment you land, heck, no, even before that on the plane :P . Yes they DO have an agenda and see the white foreigner as a walking wallet, but they are nice nevertheless.. just make clear you're not going to give anything to anybody and you'll quickly filter out the ones with the very short term agendas :P
- Cheap... this won't be like that forever and the prices go up every year, but it's still incredibly cheap to get basic needed stuff (house, power, internet)
- Language... they all speak english, at the very least they understand it very well, even the old ones, I really mean EVERYBODY. You know english, you're at home. Banks, hospitals, city halls, documents, it's all in english.
- Taxation system.. I won't get into the details.. but there is currently an "hole" in the system that is VERY convenient for non US foreigners making money from outside the country.. I'll let you fire google for more info on this one ;)

CONS
- Manila (the capital city) is to be avoided at all costs. There is nothing to see there and it is not representative of the country.. it smells bad, it's dirty and unsafe.. land there, rest one night and get out.
- Hard to find "luxury" stuff.. want a sports car? cool electric guitar? the latest tech toy? No luck.. the only option is to fly to HK or to Tokyo to get it and hope you wont have to bribe anybody on your way back in customs.
- Food. They are very proud of their food but compared to the countries around TH, VN, HK.. there's no comparison. Also there is no standard, after 7 years of regular flights there I am still wondering what an "Adobo" really is. The good news it that you can get good raw ingredients, so if you can cook yourself you'll be fine.
- Weather, if you dont like hot and humid.. not the place for you :)
- Corruption.. just learn to close one eye and live with it.. or get frustrated for life
- Slowness.. everything happens veeeeeery slooowww... take your time, enjoy the wait :P
- There are very dangerous areas, where kidnappings do happen frequently. Having said that.. more people die here in italy on car accidents than killed in the philippines by terrorist.. that won't stop me using my car to get to work won't it?

Edited by kunos, 26 November 2012 - 07:41 AM.

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#24 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12873

Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

Since I was originally giving advice to you on the Philippines I will follow up here.
Basically Bangkok has all of the same Pros but only half of the Cons.

Beautiful scenery, cheap, friendly people (it is “the land of smiles” after all), everyone speaks English, and there are holes in their tax/visa system that allow you to live there indefinitely even if you are really just a back-packer (though they have in recent years been trying to stitch up these holes).

While they have all the same Pros, they have fewer Cons.
For example luxury items are not as rare, although there are still some things you have to get overseas, and you still have to bribe customs. My past company had to bribe customs to get our Nintendo DS development kit—but then again at least there is game development in Thailand (and I can recommend a few companies if you need—tell them I sent you and you are a shoe-in) whereas there are literally none in the Philippines.
They are very corrupt and slow—they walk at half the pace of any other normal human being.
But on the other hand your overall lifestyle will be better, there are no dangerous areas in most places in Thailand (just don’t go south), and there are plenty of food options for Westerners. Luckily for me, I love shrimp and noodles, so there was always a menu option for me no matter where my coworkers wanted to go. But all major food chains do exist there as well so you can still pick up McDonald’s, KFC, Burger King, Subway, Pizza Hut, MOS Burger, etc. if you want to stick to a Western diet (well, MOS Burger is Japanese but anyway).


However there is one last factor if you have a Filipino wife.
Thai people actually do discriminate against Filipinos. On the one hand she would be viewed as prominent for being with a white man, but whenever she is alone she is likely to be subjected to a small amount of racism. Having lived in Thailand for 5 years I can tell you that there are some Thai people who really criticize Filipinos over matters even as trivial as how they pronounce certain words, including the word “Thai” itself. But they luckily are not the majority.

On the other hand you yourself would receive more racism in the Philippines than you would in Thailand. And in both countries you would be surrounded by people with stereotypical views on Westerners. Taxis will stop in front of you just because you are standing there, not because you waved them down. In both countries, people will view you as nothing but a source of money, and if you don’t speak the native language you will get ripped off. Taxis turn off their meters when they see westerners and then take the longest route possible to said destination.
Even if you do speak the native language there are places that will charge you more just because you are Western. Go to the beach and the hotels have different prices for natives and for foreigners. My Laotian friends pretended to be Thai for the cheaper price.

But all of these things are basically true in either country. But I can tell you from personal experience that those places are nice to visit, but living there will drive you crazy. You will never be anything but a source of money in the eyes of the natives. No matter how long you live there, no one will view you as a resident. Even if you live there for 20 years you are always just a guest to them.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#25 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2203

Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

well.. just as I have been doing in the last 20 years.. if things don't work out, I'll move again :)
It's an endless search.. I do miss Tokyo and Japan and I can't wait to visit again, but living there as an indie somehow scares me to hell.
Stefano Casillo
Lead Programmer
TWITTER: @KunosStefano
AssettoCorsa - netKar PRO - Kunos Simulazioni

#26 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12873

Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

Then don’t be an indie? Not very hard to get a job I think, and again I can give you recommendations to companies who would hire you just on the fact that I suggested you.
Of course the number of companies where my word has meaning is quite low, so you could also do the same thing I did: Search Google in Japanese for a list of game companies and apply in order.
http://www.gamedevmap.com/ will also help.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#27 ManuelMarino   Members   -  Reputation: 153

Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

Sicily is good for low earnings. I mean, we have a low overhead, but anyway it's not so easy in Italy, in general, for game development.

Not an easy market, not investments, not easy loans from banks. From what I see anyway, maybe other Italians can correct me.

Edited by ManuelMarino, 03 December 2012 - 10:16 AM.

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