Ultimately, it's all up to the individual, and there's no need to pay someone for the privilege that is inherently yours (to study).

That's completely fair, and I took classes with plenty of fizzbuzz-failers. I just wanted to represent the pro-college side as well as the pro-independent approach. One thing that college gives you (as a motivated learner anyway) is a large collection of co-learners and instructors who bring different specializations, viewpoints, and insights to a regularly attended, long-term assembly (aka class) with a bit more accountability. You can get something similar in places like this (web forums and chat rooms) but learning from a forum doesn't give you a degree, and--let's be honest--that can make a big difference if you're looking to apply for work afterwards.

If you're just learning to learn, take whatever approach you want. I got my IT certification by spending too much money on coffee at a local bookstore (well, I studied for it that way, Barnes & Noble doesn't give CompTIA tests). People have been wildly successful and dismal failures using both routes. But the degree-holding ones probably made it past more HR screens.

Edit: Good point about the youtube series, I had forgotten about those. For free, it's great material. If given the option, I'd prefer to be sitting in the class though, so I could ask questions that come up.

Edit 2: Just so I don't keep bumping this thread to derail it, I meant "accountability to show up", as in a peer + instructor group you can rely on to be regularly present. And counterpoints are easy to find for both sides, because it's not a black and white issue. My goal was simply to impress that both options are there, and having a degree doesn't *hurt* your chances of getting work. It just opens you up to a superset of the jobs seeking programmers.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "accountability". The instructors are certainly not accountable for your progress. If you're talking about people who can only learn when placed under some kind of high pressure ... I don't know; That just sounds silly to me.

learning from a forum doesn't give you a degree, and--let's be honest--that can make a big difference if you're looking to apply for work afterwards

Assuming that a degree is the only requirement (which is very unlikely, especially today) -> It depends on the company, but generally, in any place where developers make hiring decisions (which is where you actually want to work, for obvious reasons), your proven abilities are the only thing that truly matters.

Valve's Chet Faliszek makes that abundantly clear:



He was very careful not to make it explicit, because questioning the value of "higher-ed" is still somewhat taboo, but he's basically saying that it doesn't matter, and that makes perfect sense.

I have often found that by following any school's method of teaching from the beginning to the end, leaves me learning and retaining very little. Once you have decided what language you want to concentrate on, try starting and the END instead of the BEGINNING. People want to talk to you more if you start out by saying GOODBYE first instead of HELLO WORLD! What I am advising you to do, is first learn on how to write your Data files to your hard drive through your language. After all, you will find ending your game is every bit as important as starting it.

Assuming that a degree is the only requirement (which is very unlikely, especially today) -> It depends on the company, but generally, in any place where developers make hiring decisions (which is where you actually want to work, for obvious reasons), your proven abilities are the only thing that truly matters.

Valve's Chet Faliszek makes that abundantly clear:

a degree isn't the only requirement anywhere but the idea that degrees don't matter to the extent that you are implying is just false and/or wishful thinking. There are a lot of truly great programmers in the world and 95+% of those guys have at least 4 year degrees, often from prestigious universities. You will be competing with them for jobs. Why would a hiring manager choose a great programmer who has no credentials over a great programmer with a CS degree, all things being equal? Because of the uncredentialed guy's obvious genius and the twinkle in his eye? -- this is fantasy, and doesn't even touch on the (social) connections a truly gifted programmer will make at a first-tier engineering school. Look, I'm not saying the whole pulling-ones-self-up-by-ones-bootstraps thing can't be done: just that success this way is much rarer and it is the much more difficult route. This is not the 1990's anymore and it is competitive out there. Telling a young person not to worry about college because game companies will just recognize how great they are is just giving really bad advice.

I see this a lot on these forums and elsewhere. I think there is also a belief among younger people posting here that the easiest route to success in the game industry or software in general is striking it rich on their own as an indie developer. Okay, this too is folly ... it's a nice dream and people should try and follow their dreams etc. But basically no one strikes it rich as an indie developer. If you're young and you want to write games the main way you are going to get to do it without having to have to do it when you get home as a hobby or a sort of second job is by becoming a real programmer and getting a real programming job for some game company, meaning becoming a software engineer, meaning studying engineering, period. It's really that simple.

Why would a hiring manager choose a great programmer who has no credentials over a great programmer with a CS degree, all things being equal?

Because they're cheaper; Because they have a proven ability to learn independently, and the motivation to do so.

Telling a young person not to worry about college because game companies will just recognize how great they are is just giving really bad advice.

If you're really "great", and you have a portfolio that clearly proves that, I don't see how it would be "bad advice". Watch Chet's presentation; that's the stuff that they actually care about, and that's how people get hired.

For the vast majority, spending 4 years in some program of questionable merit is considerably less beneficial. People go into debt, only to end up in a highly competitive market, where a degree holds virtually no distinguishing value. I mean, when 60% fail FizzBuzz; it's not even a half-decent interview filter.

I think there is also a belief among younger people posting here that the easiest route to success in the game industry or software in general is striking it rich on their own as an indie developer.

Well, that's clearly foolish: Independent game development is insanely difficult, and if you're getting into it just for the money, you're basically wasting your time, for reasons I outlined in this post.