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Would You Live on Mars?


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#21 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2641

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:35 AM

you're forgetting about the shear amount of money required to do this, the only way it will get done, is by taking a step and doing it, and if that step requires essentially creating an truman show, well, it's a start.


The thing I'm worried about with that is all the spectacular ways it is likely to fail, and how much it might put the public off from space exploration for a few decades.
It all sounds great in theory until people start dying in agony on live TV

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#22 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3177

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:39 AM


you're forgetting about the shear amount of money required to do this, the only way it will get done, is by taking a step and doing it, and if that step requires essentially creating an truman show, well, it's a start.


The thing I'm worried about with that is all the spectacular ways it is likely to fail, and how much it might put the public off from space exploration for a few decades.
It all sounds great in theory until people start dying in agony on live TV


That's been a risk since the very beginning, seriously the number of near misses that would have ended nasa if not for absolute pure luck is insane. I'm surprised we've managed to make it this far with such a small mortality rate.

Edited by slicer4ever, 03 December 2012 - 02:40 AM.

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#23 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2641

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:53 AM

That's been a risk since the very beginning, seriously the number of near misses that would have ended nasa if not for absolute pure luck is insane. I'm surprised we've managed to make it this far with such a small mortality rate.


I see it as a big difference when the projects are founded by tax money and a genuine will to explore and evolve.
In this case you bring in lots of extra considerations of making it marketable and "good TV", so you maximize your ad revenue.
I don't think that is such a good idea, it promotes a very short sighted thinking, and "quick fixes".

Space exploration in general is a big risk yes, and because of that, cost might run amok sometimes, and has to be allowed to.
What if the company behind this goes bankrupt?
Well, maybe they can keep the astronauts "hostage", and tell people "well give us money now or these guys will slowly die on live TV".

There is a fine line to walk for the would be astronauts to actually die "for humanity" and not for <Insert Brand Here>.

#24 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3177

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:58 AM


That's been a risk since the very beginning, seriously the number of near misses that would have ended nasa if not for absolute pure luck is insane. I'm surprised we've managed to make it this far with such a small mortality rate.


I see it as a big difference when the projects are founded by tax money and a genuine will to explore and evolve.
In this case you bring in lots of extra considerations of making it marketable and "good TV", so you maximize your ad revenue.
I don't think that is such a good idea, it promotes a very short sighted thinking, and "quick fixes".

Space exploration in general is a big risk yes, and because of that, cost might run amok sometimes, and has to be allowed to.
What if the company behind this goes bankrupt?
Well, maybe they can keep the astronauts "hostage", and tell people "well give us money now or these guys will slowly die on live TV".

There is a fine line to walk for the would be astronauts to actually die "for humanity" and not for <Insert Brand Here>.


I do see your point, and that is a good question on what could happen if the funding is suddenly cut, but that would be a risk to any future space colonization endeavors, regardless of how their being funded, what if a government goes to war, it suddenly becomes harder to try and support an extra-terrestrial colony, all you can hope for is that that doesn't happen before the colony is capable of self-sufficiency, and not relying on supply drops.

Edited by slicer4ever, 03 December 2012 - 02:58 AM.

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#25 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12212

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:46 AM

How long have you lived in Tokyo?

Over 4 years.

despite what you might want to think you still do live around "people Posted Image"

Oh, is that what those black-haired things packed inside trains are?

They also have their gardens.

There are a few bushes and trees I pass on my way to work, but I prefer the cityscape and I generally completely look past all the green in favor of the tall shiny buildings.
Honestly grass is nothing I would miss, nor are trees.



I have also thought about the long-term future of the project, because it takes so much money.
What if they can simply no longer provide communications, send supplies, etc., 30 years later?
Being self-sufficient would happen quickly, however, so no one would die because of that. Just fewer people in the long run and no TV/Internet.
It would be more boring in that respect, but more fun in other respects. We would literally become our own independent colony, establish our own laws, elect leaders, and continue the growth of the colony “on our own”.

Look at the positive sides: Not a single STD on the planet, everyone is as intelligent as you are, etc. We would become a colony of ultimate humans, each one in top physical and mental shape.

And assuming communications do remain 30 years later, by that point we would be able to build our own rocket to return to Earth if we wanted.
It really wouldn’t be 1-way, though it would be a very very long lay-over.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#26 samoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4496

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:38 AM

Pay me now, based on the promise that I will do a lottery in 10 years from now (if I feel like it!) to send 40 fools to a desert where they will undergo a survivor-style TV show. If I really select some guy who paid me to take part in the desert trip, I'll be telling them they didn't make the final round, much to my regret.

Awesome idea. Why didn't I think of that. Must be because I'm no superhuman.

Edited by samoth, 03 December 2012 - 04:38 AM.


#27 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2641

Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:02 AM

Pay me now, based on the promise that I will do a lottery in 10 years from now (if I feel like it!) to send 40 fools to a desert where they will undergo a survivor-style TV show. If I really select some guy who paid me to take part in the desert trip, I'll be telling them they didn't make the final round, much to my regret.

Awesome idea. Why didn't I think of that. Must be because I'm no superhuman.


Yeah.. that too...

#28 amrazek111   Members   -  Reputation: 692

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:51 AM

I'm too attached to the internet and snacks to go. But if we invent FTL communication so I can have a high speed link to Earth and regular shipments of chips and soda, I'd be down.

#29 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

There are a few bushes and trees I pass on my way to work, but I prefer the cityscape and I generally completely look past all the green in favor of the tall shiny buildings.
Honestly grass is nothing I would miss, nor are trees.


I think some people could get by, but I think you seriously underestimate the difference between seeing something once breifly every week and never seeing it ever. It's much more a slow grinding psychosis than you'd expect. There would probably also be a good amount of cabin fever.

#30 ManuelMarino   Members   -  Reputation: 153

Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:50 AM

No, I won't go. While I love Mars ambience and I would make the trip listening to a lot of space music :) honestly I like to live here, on Earth and first of all on my wonderful isle: Sicily.
Electronic, Hard House, Film Music

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#31 BMO   Members   -  Reputation: 170

Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

No. I've spent time in the desert without creature comforts. It sucks hard. Years later and I'm still cleaning sand out of places I didn't know I had.

#32 rscomposer   Members   -  Reputation: 162

Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

you're forgetting about the shear amount of money required to do this, the only way it will get done, is by taking a step and doing it, and if that step requires essentially creating an truman show, well, it's a start.

the only possible other alternatives for generating the resources are either an extremely valuable/plentiful resource is discovered, and corporations want to mine it(such as Helium-3 on the moon), or over population/pollution forces us to leave or die, or lastly some really really rich people decide to say fuck it, let's go!.


Any form of space exploration costs exorbitant sums of money.

If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.

#33 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2092

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:03 PM

Look at the positive sides: Not a single STD on the planet, everyone is as intelligent as you are, etc. We would become a colony of ultimate humans, each one in top physical and mental shape.
L. Spiro

Wow, that would be fun. Bunch of snobs on a desert planet Posted Image

Seriously. No snow, no face to the wind or rain thing, no beer under the sun thing and all the other crap. I'd miss that.
Maybe I'm just an unterhuman but this world is too sci-fi to me already (that's why I moved to Finland once). Going some even more sci-fi place with smart people, I'd drown in the bullshit.

#34 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2641

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.


It's several orders of magnitude cheaper to send unmanned one-way supply-ships then it is to send anything that can return.
You'd have to bring the fuel to return too, plus life-support and radiation-shielding to survive the couple-of-months travel time.
Plus have systems to go into orbit, have something that can launch to that orbit, etc...
Have the ship land? even more fuel, and a couple of magnitudes more expensive.
Not even the ship that would be built to take them there would be built to return, but be re-used to build the colony

Edited by Olof Hedman, 03 December 2012 - 01:04 PM.


#35 kseh   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1827

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

I haven't examined the site carefully at all but... what would you do once you got there? Would I be allowed to sit on my ass and try and code game or write or whatever I want? Or would I be expected to dedicate myself to the survival of the community? What sort of government should be expected? Laws? Is there any semblance of privacy or is everything you do up for scrutiny as it's for the well being of the colony? What if you want to break away from the colony?

It's not for me but it sounds interesting and I can respect anyone that has the guts to give it a try.

#36 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12212

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

http://mars-one.com/en/faq-en/22-faq-mission-features/196-what-will-the-astronauts-do-on-mars

Our astronauts will also find time to relax. They can do most of the indoor activities that people can do on Earth: read, play games, write, paint, work out in the gym, watch TV, use the Internet, contact friends at home and so on.
There will be some communication and media limitations, due to the distance between Earth and Mars, resulting in time delays: they will have to request the movies or news broadcasts they want to see in advance. If an astronaut would like to watch the Super Bowl, he or she can request it, and it would be uploaded to the server on Mars. There will always be a time delay of at least three minutes, so the people on Mars will know who won a few minutes after the people on Earth. Hopefully this slight delay will not spoil their enjoyment of our ‘Earth sports’.
Easy Internet access will be limited to their preferred sites that are constantly updated on the local Mars web server. Other websites will take between 6 and 45 minutes to appear on their screen - first 3-22 minutes for your click to reach Earth, and then another 3-22 minutes for the website data to reach Mars. Contacting friends at home is possible by video, voice or text message (e-mail, WhatsApp, sms), but real time dialogue is not possible, because of the time delay.


There are also private areas on the colony.
No laws, no government, no taxes.
Breaking away from the colony means death for at least the first 15-20 years or so.


L. Spiro

Edited by L. Spiro, 03 December 2012 - 03:34 PM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#37 carangil   Members   -  Reputation: 489

Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

my bigger dream was to live on another planet. As long as I can bring cats.


This would also be one of my conditions of going. Realistically, I think I'd rather live in a city on the moon than on Mars. On the moon you get some real-time communication, plus with no atmosphere to get in the way you can look through one serious telescope. Mars has a thin atmosphere, but its still a nice pink sky between you and the stars.

#38 rscomposer   Members   -  Reputation: 162

Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.


It's several orders of magnitude cheaper to send unmanned one-way supply-ships then it is to send anything that can return.
You'd have to bring the fuel to return too, plus life-support and radiation-shielding to survive the couple-of-months travel time.
Plus have systems to go into orbit, have something that can launch to that orbit, etc...
Have the ship land? even more fuel, and a couple of magnitudes more expensive.
Not even the ship that would be built to take them there would be built to return, but be re-used to build the colony


I think, if and when the first humans land on Mars, they will be landing in a ship designed to return them to Earth. I don't believe that the body sending them on that mission (likely governments, not TV producers), will not task the first expedition to Mars with establishing a colony at their destination.

That means we will already have conquered the challenges of getting humans to and from Mars. Every little thing we do in a manned mission to Mars will be outrageously expensive, and even more so in building a colony.

In truth, there will likely be a space station orbiting Mars before a colony is built. The station would be equipped with Earth Return Vehicles which would carry people back to Earth. That negates having to worry about getting a larger ship intended to be inhabited for months at a time on and off the surface of the planet. It would never have to even enter the atmosphere.

Crew and supplies would be dropped from the station to the Martian surface, and it would only require a capsule capable of taking off in the thin Martian atmosphere to rendezvous with the orbital station.

NASA has some fascinating articles about colonization and travel to Mars: http://search.nasa.gov/search/search.jsp?nasaInclude=manned+mission+to+mars

#39 kseh   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1827

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

When I think of the inherent danger involved, the amount of work that needs to be done, the type of people that are needed to do the work, the sense of confinement from being unable to leave, and the isolation (though mitigated by communication technology), I have a difficult time imagining anything less than a strong command structure being required for survival. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it does make me wonder how those rules and how that command will evolve. Disputes are inevitable whether they're as serious as whether or not to use resources to drill for water or comparatively petty as something arising from the artistic works of one colonist depicting another colonist.

It could be the best way to proceed is just dive in with full optimism and let things evolve as needs arrive. It's just that in general, I find the whole notion of starting up a civilization from scratch really interesting. We have these various systems in place that we take for granted that have evolved since before people can remember. A lot of people have the notion to scrap it all and start fresh thinking that they can do better. As dangerous a Martian frontier would be, I'd be equally worried about those sorts of ambitions.

#40 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12212

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

There will only be 4 people at first and they will be carefully chosen based on their social dynamics. They will be put together for 3 months at a time in the desert every 2 years and undergo many other group tests for 10 years before ever leaving for Mars. So if they can’t get along they don’t go together.

I am already planning what will be in my application video/letter.
I am quite serious about wanting to go myself, and am about 90% sure I will apply as soon as possible. I look forward even to the training and exercise—it would be nice to get back into shape.


L. Spiro
It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums




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