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My Tentative Idea Thread


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#1 jdturner11   Members   -  Reputation: 186

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

A few of the posters in my thread "unfocused discussion" have encouraged me to go forward and post an Idea thread. While it's an uncomfortable thing for me to do, you all have been great thus far and very open; I'd like to return the favor. Mind you, I do not hold value in these ideas, I just wanted to discuss the prevalent ones in my mind. If my idea is somewhat similar to yours, talk about it! I have no issue with a thread becoming derailed and if this thread spawns another's question, go for it. We're all here to learn. So let's get started:


Oh, I'm going to use placeholder titles, to make response a lot easier.


"Rock Game"

The back story with this game will be Christianity influenced(I am not religious by any stretch, but am consistently intrigued by Theology) and while it will not be so close to call it Christianity themed, I'd like for it to be easy to see the derivatives. An intro to the setting would be, perhaps, to the world as whole. A few still shots of a busy city, with many people, loud yelling and clamoring. Zooming out, from clouds, galaxy, and innevitably the entire universe, whiteness. A whisp of electricity that is vaguely hand shaped opens, then closes. Zooming back into space, to a collection of meteors that are floating among the void, you see them ignite into fire and speed off into a direction. This direction, of course, is Earth; where the doomsday gang is hurtling. At impact, after the explosion, there is a molten planet which was once ours - now filled with lava and bare rock. Infinitely quiet, a stark contrast to how it was seconds before. I want this to be quickly, to bring home the fidelity of these creatures.

A scene switch back to the far reaches of the universe, where the Hand entity was, there's a man. Sorrow filled, shaking his head. He turns mournfully, giving the being a glance and then quickly vanishing leaving behind the same type of electricity. A view from the ground up on Earth, amongst the molten rock he appears in an explosion of lightning. With a quick and smooth outward gesture, the landscape begins to change. The lava evaropates, the sun brightens onto the land, and below ground rocks are tightening. This pressure and the cooling action of the removed lava creates a multitude of gems, which are now shaking at full speed and slowly rising. Around the god-like man these rock beings quickly rise - each have a crystal embedded within their palm. Standing around him, he looks up. Some dialogue will come forth at this point, I don't know what, but an explanation of unjust punishment for acting how they were programmed and that they are now purely soul - that the deities will leave them to an immortal life without intervention. This is when the game would start.

Again, this is simply outline, there are probably plot holes and a lack of accurate descriptions but that'd most likely resolve if I even move forward with this.

The game itself would be magic based as the unobstructed soul would allow for wordly manipulation. Communication rudimentary, but some remnance of basic wording because the soul had still been through civilized life and remembers it's past. I was thinking that the rock beings would quickly separate into their own groups, each pursuing a different ideal of how to proceed in this new world. This is where the combat takes place. Dependent on your group, you will amass a certain type of spell craft (I'm thinking based on the elements, while cliche I think the idea of one controlling fire or water or air OR earth entirely cool. NERD ALERT! Posted Image). Instead of spell creation I would like to allow spell manipulation.

To draw a comparison, I'd say it'd be like chess. You have pieces that have defined movements, but their purposes are endless. I think it's fine to predefine spells and I don't think that is the issue with spell systems. I think the issue is the lack of weight. If you're creating the typical fireball, you are doing an amazing feat. I want the fireball to have WEIGHT, to act like a hurling ball of fire and to react like a fireball. Here's an example:

You have at your disposal the manipulation of fire. Determined by some user input, you can alter how the fire will be executed. Maybe a long click will allow a spray, or one click followed by holding the right mouse button directly after will create a fireball and the duration you hold increases size. Spraying towards the ground might allow you to quickly move out of the way acting like a jetpack since it's pressurized. This is basic but I like the idea of a contextual type of spell cast. That when these things are released you FEEL the power. I want combat to be slow and dliberate, these are hulking creatures that cannot move quickly. I don't want a lot of spells being thrown back and forth, I want each spell to be large and have a multitude of options to counter or redirect it. I am not sure how damage would be governed, I'd love to do a high lethality system with a fun destruction-physics animation, but I'm not sure.

As an aside, the earth spells would only work on inanimate earth, these beings are the blblical golem and more clay like than boulder like.

Art style would most likely be matte colors among earthy tones. Kind of that grounded but extraordinary religious feeling you get in old paintings.


That is the basis for the above idea, which... I kind of feel embarrassed for even typing. I had to force myself through that. The other idea I had has been in my mind since childhood but again, not completely developed. Though with a bit more knowledge of the industry I can make a more educated detail of the idea than what just sounded cool.

"Hunter Game"

A game set in the early ages amongst the werewolves and vampires and all other badies we've heard about. I want these creatures to be rare and for you to be the hunter. Living among a few towns that would be entirely made up, you'd spend a lot of your time sparring different forms of combat with others or managing a business or keeping an hear/eye on local talk; Or all of the above!. The talk would be text based as I'd want it to be completely randomized ala Gnomoria/Dwarf Fortress. These would either lead to inconclusive or conclusive beasts that you would in turn, hunt. The preparation would, again, be slow. Amassing the weapons, the text on said creature, more villager topics, and the like SHOULD be difficult work. I'd like the combat to be a bastardization of Jedi Academy and Mount and Blade. Meaning, the ability to block but also have controlled directional attacks. I prefer the movement based directionals in JA to the Mount and Blade mouse directionals, but I'm unsure. I would not opposed to having one universal block button.

I want fights to last for a long time, where there is a lot of build up. More over, I want each situation to be different. This could work by setting up a variety of assets for the environments then using a tracking system similar to "The Hunter" ( a hunting game) in which the target has a randomized path that leaves behind "footprint" assets that indicate direction. Upon successfully finding the enemy (let's assume vampire) you will be attacked and you can block, use other equipment, grappling, and ultimately come out on top or die. I'd like for the fighting to make it clear that if you lost, it was your fault. So maybe you hit him with holy water, direct him to a church amongst the cross, or just combat him.

I'm torn on the after-death condition. I think respawns trivialize and undermine the whole process. I could do permadeath, I know a wealth of players that would enjoy such a system. But, the day to day tasks MUST be equally as fun if that is used, the hunting being a treat. I think a variety of what you CAN do and keeping the tasks tangent with the hunting skills is important to sustain interest. That being a business owner you will be greeted with a "tycoon" like sim, a detective you get to utilize the random text system to find crimes, a hoodlum you get to rob and break into homes, etc...

The game should stand up as if there were no creatures.



Well, that's it. I hope myself and others learn from the results of this thread. Thanks for reading!

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#2 Memetic1   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Wow I can see allot of potential in both games. First off let me compliment you on your originality here! Both games are not your standard fantasy/scifi setting so you have plus 1 from me. I only really have this idea for right now for your second game. I came up with this a few days ago, and I'm really excited about the possibility of it being incorporated in such a cool world. I agree that permadeath has its merits and disadvantages. I came up with a system that is in a way the best of both worlds Was also thinking u could do a more realistic family system in mmorpg by having a base population on the server and only allowing a new player on when a couple has a child. If the player is a playing player then they could determine their appearance if however their a free to play member then it would be a combination of the couples appearances. Of course with a bit of random variation. Starting stats could also be determined in such a manner. I still haven't figured out how childhood would be done. However if u were to incorporate the possibility of player death i think their children/spouses/guild should inherit their liquid and or material assets.

#3 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8642

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

A few of the posters in my thread "unfocused discussion" have encouraged me to go forward and post an Idea thread.


We should probably close that other thread, then...
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#4 jdturner11   Members   -  Reputation: 186

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

I don't see why that would be necessary, that thread is a topic on design ideas and a lot more free form as opposed to being based on my own. I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I merely/humbly want to express that I'm much more interested in other's opinion on design. This thread being so I can establish an open connection without derailing.

#5 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4569

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

@Tom Sloper - I thought the two threads were significantly different in content.

I'll respond to the Rock Game idea. I'm actually kind of anti-religious, but if I ignore that part the rest of the concept kind of catches my interest. I like "restarting after an apocalypse" settings, or "dropped into a different world with different rules" set-ups. The method of the apocalypse is actually not important to the concept, that's just a bit of cinematography. The main idea here is "Humans failed at an undefined task, so when they are accidentally destroyed the task-setter transforms them into golems for another attempt." The immediate question is, "Why golems? How are they different from humans? Do these differences give us a clue what the task was supposed to be?" It would certainly be possible to make an argument that mechanical bodies would be an improvement on biological ones. I dunno if these golems are supposed to be silicon life forms or what, but they don't seem too different from, say, being a Transformer; which would be a big step up from human, at least in terms of durability, traveling ability, and lifespan. If one were being optimistic, one could assume golems are less vulnerable to disease, less quick to suffer from lack of food/water/air, etc. Can they reproduce? If so, maybe they have more control over that than humans, eliminating unwanted pregnancies and such. (Disclaimer: sunandshadow probably reads too much transformers fanfiction.)

So, okay, golems. But why split into elements? (I'm gonna ignore the gem in the palm thing because I personally think it's tacky, just like when Elemental Gelade did it. I'd be way more awesome if their whole bodies were made of colored crystal anyway.) What do the elements represent? Personality type? The fact that no human being (or golem person) is complete in themselves or even with a single partner, instead it requires a group to really carry out the essential purpose of human society? When these people start fighting against each other, are the immediately heading down the path to failing at their task of they mysterious assigned task? Is this task something the player should care about trying to push their new species toward, and if so, how?

Also, that is an opening scenerio, not in fact a plot at all. You do not have plot holes, you simply don't have a plot yet. It's not a plot without some kind of overall goal, some way for the player to progress at mastering the world (including understanding the whys and how) and using that mastery to do meaningful things that eventually add up to the player "winning at life" somehow. MMOs (which this seems to be) are kinda weak on endings, but the player still needs to have a series of goals while playing (besides get an epic mithril horse mount or diamond eagle flying mount). Mastering one's class or faction abilities, for example, should represent being able to use that class or faction's philosophy to achieve victory over some of the world's problems (and I don't mean by bashing top-levels of different classes or factions over the head). So, basically I think you need to brainstorm some plot here and clarify your theme to take the next step in developing this idea.

Edited by sunandshadow, 17 December 2012 - 12:38 AM.

I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me.

#6 jdturner11   Members   -  Reputation: 186

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:43 AM

@Tom Sloper - I thought the two threads were significantly different in content.

I'll respond to the Rock Game idea. I'm actually kind of anti-religious, but if I ignore that part the rest of the concept kind of catches my interest. I like "restarting after an apocalypse" settings, or "dropped into a different world with different rules" set-ups. The method of the apocalypse is actually not important to the concept, that's just a bit of cinematography. The main idea here is "Humans failed at an undefined task, so when they are accidentally destroyed the task-setter transforms them into golems for another attempt." The immediate question is, "Why golems? How are they different from humans? Do these differences give us a clue what the task was supposed to be?" It would certainly be possible to make an argument that mechanical bodies would be an improvement on biological ones. I dunno if these golems are supposed to be silicon life forms or what, but they don't seem too different from, say, being a Transformer; which would be a big step up from human, at least in terms of durability, traveling ability, and lifespan. If one were being optimistic, one could assume golems are less vulnerable to disease, less quick to suffer from lack of food/water/air, etc. Can they reproduce? If so, maybe they have more control over that than humans, eliminating unwanted pregnancies and such. (Disclaimer: sunandshadow probably reads too much transformers fanfiction.)

So, okay, golems. But why split into elements? (I'm gonna ignore the gem in the palm thing because I personally think it's tacky, just like when Elemental Gelade did it. I'd be way more awesome if their whole bodies were made of colored crystal anyway.) What do the elements represent? Personality type? The fact that no human being (or golem person) is complete in themselves or even with a single partner, instead it requires a group to really carry out the essential purpose of human society? When these people start fighting against each other, are the immediately heading down the path to failing at their task of they mysterious assigned task? Is this task something the player should care about trying to push their new species toward, and if so, how?

Also, that is an opening scenerio, not in fact a plot at all. You do not have plot holes, you simply don't have a plot yet. It's not a plot without some kind of overall goal, some way for the player to progress at mastering the world (including understanding the whys and how) and using that mastery to do meaningful things that eventually add up to the player "winning at life" somehow. MMOs (which this seems to be) are kinda weak on endings, but the player still needs to have a series of goals while playing (besides get an epic mithril horse mount or diamond eagle flying mount). Mastering one's class or faction abilities, for example, should represent being able to use that class or faction's philosophy to achieve victory over some of the world's problems (and I don't mean by bashing top-levels of different classes or factions over the head). So, basically I think you need to brainstorm some plot here and clarify your theme to take the next step in developing this idea.


Well, the "task-setter" (I love that term by the way) is not that at all. An omniscient creator that realized humans were programmed to fail their expectations and resurrected them from an unjust punishment. They leave the world from a realization that they are not all-knowing. The reason for golems is that since there needs to be a vessel for soul, the only reliable source IS earth as it can handle the multitude of an entire world population. The gems, well, in the opening scene magma is removed and the "transformeration"( Posted Image ) caused a lot of pressure. This is what creates gems in the real world, an over simplified explanation but valid nonetheless. I do agree the palm thing felt a bit "meh".


Now I could use your idea and twist it a bit, to have gem ridden golems. I want to keep those matte tones which a pure crystal golem wouldn't allow and also they'd need to be inbetween rock as the creation OF said gems would not forego the rock body completely. Reasoning for the four elements is just a representation of the simplification within the world due to purity while division still exists. These rock creatures do harbor faint recollections of past, giving way to them separating into groups. Being abandoned by their creators, it IS up to them on how to continue and the direction of a new life is a high conflict point.


It's simply easier, I feel, to embody these groups with different elements. I also like the allusion to almost reverting back to the times of Aristotle, but with a heavy Islamic influence. Not to mention, kingdoms of Earth, Fire, Water, and Air are SOO cool (legend of Zelda style, not Avatar - not a fan of anime at all). The goal of the game is yet to be determined, DEFINITELY not an MMO - I would never seek to create that hassle. For now, I want all my games to be solid singleplayer, as I think MP is a different beast entirely. The placeholder goal is mastering spell craft within ones respective field.

This game would be classless, I'm a subscriber of affiliation and freedom progression, not locking the player into any one thing. I think limitation has it's place, but not within the character.


Thanks for the reply, it revealed a lot of issues and decisions to be made. Very constructive and very helpful, I always look forward to your posts, Sun.

Edited by jdturner11, 17 December 2012 - 03:50 AM.


#7 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4569

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:58 AM

If you're going for a medieval religious art look, then you could make the golems' bodies different earthy shades and you could try for a stained glass look for armor made out of gems. Level 1 golems would have few or no gems, mid level ones would have armor partly made of gem plates and spikes, while max level ones could have transcended to become completely crystal.

Always glad to have a nice conversation about an interesting game design topic. Posted Image

Edited by sunandshadow, 17 December 2012 - 03:58 AM.

I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me.

#8 jdturner11   Members   -  Reputation: 186

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:04 AM

If you're going for a medieval religious art look, then you could make the golems' bodies different earthy shades and you could try for a stained glass look for armor made out of gems. Level 1 golems would have few or no gems, mid level ones would have armor partly made of gem plates and spikes, while max level ones could have transcended to become completely crystal.

Always glad to have a nice conversation about an interesting game design topic. Posted Image


Making this thread was very uncomfortable, I'm not going to make a habit out of this, but I'm really relieved that it wasn't so scary as I thought it'd be. I was hoping you'd post in here, though! :)




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