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#1 Beaupa76   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

Hey guys, I would really like to get some opinions on which game engine is ideal for my needs. I'm posting in the beginner forum because I am a beginner. I want to try and prevent months or years of game development just to find that I would get better results from a different engine. Think of my gaming end result as a third person over the shoulder action rpg that plays like a dungeon crawler. Heavy customizations and looting. MMO style class system with upgradable abilities. I'm going to start it as a single player to get my experience and eventually if successful i can imagine multiplayer (5-10 player) co-op with bigger maps. Ok, so here is my importance list:
 
- high fps (optimized as best I can)
- I want to make sure whichever is choose won't limit my options for customization (again think mmo class style)
- if/when I'm ready to go multiplayer I'd like it not to take much of a performance hit
 
To give you a better idea think of borderlands as over the shoulder with lower graphics, more emphasis on character customizing, and about twice the amount of killing and looting.
 
This is my vision. Now, this thread is not meant to be a "this engine is better than that engine". I know that won't get anywhere. It's just suggestions on my needs. So far I've considered Unity with javascript or c#, and UDK with unreal script.
 
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
 


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#2 xinfinite33   Members   -  Reputation: 203

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

lol hey there. well just so you know. don't expect to be creating anything of borderlands quality as a beginner. things like that take teams of people and alot of time. but yeah i  would suggest unity. that would be  the easiest way to get to where your'e going. start off with smaller projects and work your way up. lots of beginners make the mistake of starting too high and getting discouraged. I should know, as im also a beginner lol. But yeah, ive used unity before and its pretty solid. but i moved to c++ because i like the thought of building "from the  ground up" and understanding whats going on so i can tailor my game engine to do exactly what i want. But if you're looking for an easy to use 3d engine then yes unity is definitely what your'e looking for. smile.png



#3 Beaupa76   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

lol hey there. well just so you know. don't expect to be creating anything of borderlands quality as a beginner. things like that take teams of people and alot of time. but yeah i  would suggest unity. that would be  the easiest way to get to where your'e going. start off with smaller projects and work your way up. lots of beginners make the mistake of starting too high and getting discouraged. I should know, as im also a beginner lol. But yeah, ive used unity before and its pretty solid. but i moved to c++ because i like the thought of building "from the  ground up" and understanding whats going on so i can tailor my game engine to do exactly what i want. But if you're looking for an easy to use 3d engine then yes unity is definitely what your'e looking for. smile.png

Hey, thanks for the reply. Yeah I know that I can't even come close to what a full design team can do. I was just trying to reference the gamestyle I am going for. I do have some programming in my background, so I know it's a long road. I won't rule out designing smaller challenges if I can't get the concept right away. It's nice to remember your end goal sometimes too. That's one vote for unity. Happy holidays.



#4 Khatharr   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2937

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

Please read this article first. Think about it for a while and then decide what you want to do.


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#5 Beaupa76   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

Please read this article first. Think about it for a while and then decide what you want to do.

Good read, thanks :)

 

Not sure if you read my OP or just skimmed it, but im working on game concepts at the moment and im initially planning a single player campaign. Let's say I stick with it and get some friends interested in a multiplayer option, I'm hoping at that point I can add the networking layer that would allow say 5-10 players. The game would be far from an MMO "massively" as the article points out. I only use the term mmo in the OP as a loose term to express character progression and the possibility of multiplayer. For the record I am very aware of the state of today's mmos and the fact that they are cutthroat to the point of most of them now having the free to play model. That said, the article should be relabelled from a financial standpoint because not every dev is in it to make money. I for one am just looking for a fun pastime. If I was in it to make money I'd avoid mmo like the plague, lol. Thanks for the reply.



#6 minibutmany   Members   -  Reputation: 1531

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

Before you begin a big game project, make sure to get really comfy with your language of choice. Try to make semi-complex programs without copying any code or seeking help from others. Once you feel like a code monkey, your ready to begin.


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#7 JTippetts   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8261

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

If you're a beginner, you are at the beginning of the learning process. You simply don't have the experience or knowledge you need to make any kind of long-term decisions, or to take on a project of the scope of even a relatively simple multi-player RPG. Instead of trying to decide what engine you are going to pick and use for the rest of your life, you need to just get started on your failures. There are going to be quite a lot of them. All of us who have been doing this for any length of time have so many failed and terminated projects under our belts that our hard drives are like graveyards for dead code. That's the learning process. You fail so that next time you can get just little bit closer to success. None of those failures will be wastes of time if they teach you something that helps you do better the next time. And interspersed among the failures are going to be little shining moments of triumph and success, which is what will keep you going. Treasure those, even though they won't be large multi-player RPGs, at least not for many years.

 

To start, those successes are going to be very small: completing a Pong clone, for example, or a tiny little side-scroller. They definitely will not be any kind of massive RPG with heavy customization and lots of loot. Those are asset-heavy, quite complicated to code and likely to take years to complete even for experienced teams. They are not beginner friendly projects, not even remotely. I say this from the voice of bitter experience, because approximately 99% of my graveyard of dead projects consists of RPGs. Most of them started out ambitious, most ended up in the Hell of Spaghetti Code or the Abyss of Overwhelming Feature Creep. Very few ever saw the light of day. But with each failure, I got a little bit better.



#8 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2011

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

What I dislike about the gaming community (At least the Gamer's who aren't Developers tongue.png) is how twisted their idea of development is.

 

Somehow, everyone's been convinced all games run on engines, and that engines are easy to make. They come into a game, see it, and often think "I could make that.". I used to do it (Before I took up game programming). I would see a game and think "I could make that, it isn't even good.", which is far from the truth.

 

You need to start small. I recommend JavaScript (Code Academy is amazing!). You can use HTML(5) if you like, however I'd learn JavaScript first. You need to stay motivated, it will probably be some time before you're making the game you came in to make. You'll have to go through the basics, make some clones (Pong is Awesome :)!), and keep programming. You can stay on the forums while you learn (Like I am) and read everything you can about game development.

 

And some time, in a few years, after going through all of these trials, you'll probably be able to make your dream game.

 

Have fun! Cheers :)!


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Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

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#9 JackBid   Members   -  Reputation: 453

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

I think unity and UDK would be good.



#10 Beaupa76   Members   -  Reputation: 106

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

I Do have very small goals set in the beginning and as said before, if I can't seem to grasp the concept of certain code I am willing to use it on a smaller unrelated project until I get the hang of it. If a young developer is humble and not "cocky" I see no harm in keeping your eyes on the big prize so long as you realize its going to take awhile to get there. In fact I find that just by staying focused on what you want that gives me motivation to continue. I understand that alot of new developers don't realize how much work is needed and many even abandon their projects after failing to make the commitments, but I don't see anything wrong with a part time/hobbyist developer. If they are enjoying the creative aspects, it shouldn't matter if they choose to use an engine. Just my 2c and I'm not upset or anything. Thanks for all the posts. I'm going with unity and javascript until I get comfy with the engine. Then I want to go with the more verbose c#



#11 Satharis   Members   -  Reputation: 949

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Quite honestly the most important way to learn while programming, I've found anyway, is to try things, and to have them not work. That's part of learning how gamedev works as well, if you want to make games as a coder your goal should be to learn what goes into a game and then you will have an easier time understanding what really makes up a game engine and how to compare features between them.

 

I think there really is no substitute for actually making a game and the advice oft repeated on here(and by myself) is to start at the basics, make pong, make breakout, something like that. I highly recommend using something like C# with XNA to get your feet wet to what the basic pieces of a game engine are, there's just too much to explain without experiencing it firsthand. You'd be surprised how much there is in common between pong and Unreal tournament or something, but the code abstraction is there, between many games there are major systems in place that are always in place, game logic is often very disjointed from engine logic.

 

One of the biggest problems is that people are cocky without even thinking they are, they think "oh I know it's hard, I know its a lot of work, if I just persevere I can do it!" But no, really, if you make a few games even simple ones your view of the 20 story tall gorilla will do nothing but grow. But really there's no substitute for experience, you could pick a "major" engine like UDK or Unity but as you get deeper into developing your game you will realize there is so much you do not understand enough to make decisions on.

 

My advice: make your goal to -learn- to make games, not to set your eyes on one particular game you always wanted to make, you'll just get frustrated with your slow progress or feel like you aren't working towards that super goal and it will really hurt you in the long run. Don't try to learn math by solving a whiteboard length equation, learn math by starting at counting.


Edited by Satharis, 26 December 2012 - 02:21 PM.





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