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Simple MORPG Idea [Need Gameplay]


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#1 Jirachex   Members   -  Reputation: 146

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:04 AM

Every time I read about some newbie trying to complete their first game that happens to be a WoW killer I get discouraged since their is so much hate directed towards anyone attempting to make a game like that. Everyone would say it's impossible alone or it takes millions of dollars to complete. I'm working on my own multiplayer RPG game in Unity 3D. It's not my first time programming and i'm not trying to make something with the same quality or amount of content as a triple A title. I understand that something like that simply isn't reasonable and is way out of scope. Instead I'm trying to make something simpler, that focuses on socializing and adventure rather the grinding in a massive world with thousands of people like traditional MMO's. It's pretty much a multiplayer RPG. Not very massive. I've been working on it for a while now and I have a functional prototype. In the current game, the player can walk/jump around in a full 3D colorful world and chat with other players. I was wondering what would be features or gameplay mechanics that would go well with this type of game.

 

The game is made to be simple, with casual gameplay and a focus on the multiplayer aspect. Interaction with other people is a goal and I'm trying to find other ways to do this other then just combat. The graphics are cel-shaded boxes, sort of like a Minecraft world with solid colors instead of textures and much more varied block shapes. The control scheme is similar to a Third-Person Shooter where you use WASD to walk and the mouse looks around with the camera positioned over the shoulder. Nothing too complex but there is no real game play yet. For the technical and networking side, I wrote a functional persistent server capable of handling 100 players at a time and a client with client-sided prediction. The server is fully authoritative and I have a simple anti-cheat that is mostly accurate. Right now the only information that gets stored on the server is the player's position.

 

How can I turn this into an actual game? What gameplay elements could I implement to make it fun? Would it be possible to actually finish a kind of project like this, turning into a fully playable game? I'm very determined to it and I'm not asking anyone to write it for me and I don't have the money to higher people to help me out since I'm still in high school. I know I have the skills to fix any technical issues that may arise. I just need some sort of advice on making the actual game part, and maybe ideas on how to make a world like this more interesting, without resorting to ripping off other games.

 

Thanks for reading, and sorry if this is in the wrong section. I'm new here.

 

- Jirachex


Edited by Jirachex, 29 December 2012 - 01:05 AM.


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#2 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5056

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

Minigames and sim elements are the two most obvious content choices for a sandboxy social game.  Or you could do something more niche and try to figure out what a 3D world version of a forum/fanfiction archive/draw together/interactive fiction maker/hypercard software kinda thing would be like.  None of those are that much about adventure, unless maybe you are thinking of something like Wurm Online or Minecraft with more monsters.


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I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.


#3 PyrZern   Members   -  Reputation: 292

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

You will want to think ahead, let's say you hold a Closed Beta, and loads of ppl see it. What will grab their attention to give it a short ?

An MORPG. Alright, what next. There will be combat. Good. What kind of combat ? Stupid mindless mobs running around, waiting to be killed ? Are there dungeons ? What 's in the dungeons ? More monsters ? Are they just all over the place ? Are they guarding rooms or treasure chests ? Are they stronger than mobs outside of dungeons ? Or are they just coming at ya in larger number. Are there bosses ? How to actually beat these bosses ? How hard are they ? Can a player solo them ? Can 2 people beat it ? Or do you need 4 ppl + to beat it ? Will there be incentive for players to group up ? Will there be storyline and quests ? What kind of story is it ? Is it the kind that most players will just skip the whole thing and read quest objectives instead ? Will there be exploration ? What do players gain from doing it ? What else are there for 'player interactions'. They group up. Ok, what else. Do they trade ? What kind of stuff do they trade ? What's the point of it ? Do you want some form of economy in the game ? Ok. What about crafting and resource gathering ? How many professions are there in total ? How many professions can a player obtain ? Will players chop down woods, saw it, put together a Hunting Spear ? No ? Think up more details.

 

After all those questions and more, you will want to ask yourself; now, what's endgame content ? What will keep players logging in days after days after days ? What will keep them from quitting ? What do they gain or what do they do at the end ?


Edited by PyrZern, 29 December 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#4 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

A concept I usually try is brain storm on your topics, then trying to plan out a 30 second commercial.  If you had 30 seconds of time to advertise your game, what would you cover.  (typically 1 to 3 key things)

 

 - Next, consider what your commercial is showing, and compare that to other Game Giant games like Blizzards WOW, or what ever other key games compete in your genre.  

 - make sure your 30 second commercial is not showing features that already exist as part of the key features in the major games in genre.

 - This helps you establish your niche market.

 - Also, use your 30 second commercial as a barrier.  You need to get something playable, and soon, or you'll probably give up on your game for some other interest.  If the concept or feature you are considering doesn't help your commercial become possible, why add it.  Maybe a later feature, but not for your first release.  Naturally, things like menus will probably not be shown, but they are needed to make the game work.

 

Second, to help find these Niche features, I recommend asking some general questions on here (or other forums) and with friends who like the genre your building in, about what people really like, what they despise about the games they like in general (annoyances) and what new things in the genre they would like to see.  DO NOT describe your ideas.  let them speak, and consider what people are saying in your ideas.  Once you start describing your ideas, you will probably pigeon hole the conversation into topics that would relate to your concept, and then miss all the creative input you would otherwise get.  

 

I to am planning a game, RTS though.  For that, I posted a generic question about RTS's in the same maner.  It's presently a hot topic, and from it, 2 or 3 considerably awesome game play mechanics that are not effectively part of any major release game have sprouted out.  Its from those that I am considering shaping my game now.  

 

its that Niche target you need to go after.   


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#5 Jirachex   Members   -  Reputation: 146

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

@sunandshadow I like the idea of mini-games and I'm currently thinking of a way to introduce a system like that where many mini-games can be played together in an open world. Since the goal is social interaction, it makes sense to blend them all seamlessly so that even if I like one mini-game and someone else likes another we still play together while still doing the things we love and even encouraging each other to try something new.

 

Second, to help find these Niche features, I recommend asking some general questions on here (or other forums) and with friends who like the genre your building in, about what people really like, what they despise about the games they like in general (annoyances) and what new things in the genre they would like to see.  DO NOT describe your ideas.  let them speak, and consider what people are saying in your ideas.  Once you start describing your ideas, you will probably pigeon hole the conversation into topics that would relate to your concept, and then miss all the creative input you would otherwise get.  

 

Thanks for the advice, that's exactly what I'm trying to ask here. I didn't explain my concept to limit other people's creativity, I did to help give a general feel for how the game looks currently. I posted here cause that is what I want to find out, what new things could I add to this genre, maybe even invent a whole new genre. Aside from simplistic combat found in every WoW clone, what ideas would people like to see realized in a game like this? Anything combat related or not is welcome, it just has to be fun.

 

- Jirachex



#6 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3973

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:42 AM

Every time I read about some newbie trying to complete their first game that happens to be a WoW killer I get discouraged since their is so much hate directed towards anyone attempting to make a game like that.

 

I will explain it by comparison. Which game is better?

 

WoW vs a typical other MMORPG:

- [WoW] it has beautiful 3D art assets  [other MMORPG] it has less beautiful 3D art assets

- [WoW] is an RPG  [other MMORPG] is an RPG

- [WoW] it has items, quests, huge world  [other MMORPG] it has items, quests, huge world

 

So, which one won? Hard to say, it would be a draw I say... :) The other MMORPG failed to trample over WoW.

 

 

Now take a look at WoW vs Lords (www.lordsgame.com) (it's my game, I shall use an opportunity for a free advertising :D ):

- [WoW] is boring overused 3D  [Lords] is clean beautiful functional text based game with a tiny bit of 2D images that you can play even on a mobile phone

- [WoW] is a boring RPG with some lame standard item system  [Lords] is an awesome strategy with countless meaningful strategic choices to make

- [WoW] is an endless grind fest  [Lords] is a fast paced game with cutting down on micromanagement as its core design choice and designed for people who don't have much time to play

 

So, you can clearly see why my game beats WoW so much it's not even worth comparing :D

 

 

You can't go for the same values WoW goes for (3D, RPG, MMO, huge world), or at least not for all of them at the same time. You can't win there. Go for values where WoW clearly fails, then you will win. Sure, 99.9% of players like 3D better than text based, also the number of RPG fans is much higher than strategy fans. But you don't need to please 99.9% of players, just 0.1% is more than enough. All that counts is if they like your game *much* more than WoW or not.

 

 

Practical advise:

In your case, since you go for 3D I would recommend doing Castle Story. There clearly is a big desire for this kind of game and it is not finished yet, so you still have the chance to be the first. If you make a game where you build a castle and defend it then yeah, you can beat WoW, even with wastly inferior art assets.


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#7 Legendre   Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:31 AM

- [WoW] is an endless grind fest  [Lords] is a fast paced game with cutting down on micromanagement as its core design choice and designed for people who don't have much time to play

 

[WoW] allows players to play whenever they want, for as much or as little they want.

 

[Lords] has a turn system that forces players to commit to logging in everyday to play, or waste turns and lag behind other players. And if you work hard during the week, you can't spend a few hours playing [Lords] on Saturday night, you're restricted to say 30 minutes. Then, you have to switch to another game...like WoW.

 

Sorry to disagree with you again on this, but I would say [WoW] is a better game for people who don't have much time to play. :)



#8 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6294

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:33 AM

Every time I read about some newbie trying to complete their first game that happens to be a WoW killer I get discouraged since their is so much hate directed towards anyone attempting to make a game like that.

 

I will explain it by comparison. Which game is better?

 

WoW vs a typical other MMORPG:

- [WoW] it has beautiful 3D art assets  [other MMORPG] it has less beautiful 3D art assets

- [WoW] is an RPG  [other MMORPG] is an RPG

- [WoW] it has items, quests, huge world  [other MMORPG] it has items, quests, huge world

 

So, which one won? Hard to say, it would be a draw I say... smile.png The other MMORPG failed to trample over WoW.

 

 

Now take a look at WoW vs Lords (www.lordsgame.com) (it's my game, I shall use an opportunity for a free advertising biggrin.png ):

- [WoW] is boring overused 3D  [Lords] is clean beautiful functional text based game with a tiny bit of 2D images that you can play even on a mobile phone

- [WoW] is a boring RPG with some lame standard item system  [Lords] is an awesome strategy with countless meaningful strategic choices to make

- [WoW] is an endless grind fest  [Lords] is a fast paced game with cutting down on micromanagement as its core design choice and designed for people who don't have much time to play

 

So, you can clearly see why my game beats WoW so much it's not even worth comparing biggrin.png

 

 

You can't go for the same values WoW goes for (3D, RPG, MMO, huge world), or at least not for all of them at the same time. You can't win there. Go for values where WoW clearly fails, then you will win. Sure, 99.9% of players like 3D better than text based, also the number of RPG fans is much higher than strategy fans. But you don't need to please 99.9% of players, just 0.1% is more than enough. All that counts is if they like your game *much* more than WoW or not.

 

 

Practical advise:

In your case, since you go for 3D I would recommend doing Castle Story. There clearly is a big desire for this kind of game and it is not finished yet, so you still have the chance to be the first. If you make a game where you build a castle and defend it then yeah, you can beat WoW, even with wastly inferior art assets.

 

Strictly speaking you can't beat something you're not competing against and when it comes to WoW the generally recommendation is: don't go there, you can't win. (WoW is a constant progression game that requires a steady stream of fresh, high quality content to remain interesting) It is a target that requires very deep pockets to attack head on.

 

The problem is not that it is a 3D MMORPG with a huge world, that can be achieved even without any real budget (Procedural generation, less content intesive settings, etc), the problem with games like WoW is that they require handcrafted content in large amounts. (quests, dungeons, items, etc), a dungeon that players can complete in less than an hour and get bored with in a few days can take several man-months to make and even big, wealthy companys like Blizzard is having trouble keeping a high enough pace. (They are resorting to grind mechanics to slow players down, something all games of this type suffer from)

 

The obvious path for small studios or hobbyists who wish to make MOs or MMOs is to focus on creating opportunities for interesting and varied player-player interactions rather than on creating interesting content for players to interact with.


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#9 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3973

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:24 AM

- [WoW] is an endless grind fest  [Lords] is a fast paced game with cutting down on micromanagement as its core design choice and designed for people who don't have much time to play

 

[WoW] allows players to play whenever they want, for as much or as little they want.

 

[Lords] has a turn system that forces players to commit to logging in everyday to play, or waste turns and lag behind other players. And if you work hard during the week, you can't spend a few hours playing [Lords] on Saturday night, you're restricted to say 30 minutes. Then, you have to switch to another game...like WoW.

 

Sorry to disagree with you again on this, but I would say [WoW] is a better game for people who don't have much time to play. smile.png

You see, even if, that's still 2 of 3 things over which your honest heart was unable to deny the brilliance of Lords over WoW :) And even the third one would be debatable by some players, so if the audience is split over it, I say I can live with sharing player base 50:50 with Blizzard I guess :D

 

Now imagine that instead of this half text based Lords I would say "look, I made this 3DMMORPG with better quest system than WoW, I will beat them!", what would you say? Probably nothing, since you would not bother checking, and even if you check you would sigh discovering that once again you were tricked into checking some vastly inferior WoW clone.

 

 

Strictly speaking you can't beat something you're not competing against and when it comes to WoW the generally recommendation is: don't go there, you can't win.

Yep, the key rule of fighting is not playing by their rules, but by yours. If there is a mighty barbarian that want to duel with you, just accept it as long as it is a poetry contest :D

(I guess Blizzard realizes it too, since they never tried to advertise their game as text based strategy, they must have concluded they would have no chance against my game so they stay in their safe heaven of 3D RPGs, they are indeed clever and sly devils :))


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#10 Jirachex   Members   -  Reputation: 146

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:05 PM

The obvious path for small studios or hobbyists who wish to make MOs or MMOs is to focus on creating opportunities for interesting and varied player-player interactions rather than on creating interesting content for players to interact with.

 

That's exactly what I'm going for. Thanks for all the replies, it's certainly some useful input.

 

- Jirachex


Edited by Jirachex, 05 January 2013 - 10:05 PM.





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